Great Tucker Carlson podcast just landed on this very topic. He opines that we are heading toward a civil war. I believe we are already there.

 

Applied to a nation, entropy serves as a metaphor for the gradual breakdown of organized systems—social, political, economic, or cultural—when left unmaintained or subjected to disruptive forces.

1. Social Cohesion: A nation’s social fabric can erode if divisions (e.g., class, race, ideology) grow unchecked. Without active efforts to foster unity, trust, and communication, society may fragment, leading to conflict or apathy, akin to energy dissipating in a closed system.
2. Political Systems: Governance structures can decay through corruption, bureaucracy, or polarization. If institutions lose legitimacy or fail to adapt, they become less effective, like a machine losing efficiency as parts wear down.
3. Economic Stability: Economic entropy manifests as resource depletion, inequality, or mismanagement. Without innovation or equitable distribution, wealth concentrates, infrastructure crumbles, and productivity stagnates, mirroring energy loss in a system.
4. Cultural Vitality: A nation’s cultural identity or values can erode if not actively preserved or renewed. Over time, neglect of shared history or traditions can lead to a loss of collective purpose, similar to a system reaching a state of uniformity.

 

I would put the number much lower, but I am a product of my programming.

Overall National Entropy Score: 3/10 - The USA exhibits moderate entropy across attributes, with disorder in cohesion and politics outweighing economic stability, requiring urgent renewal to avert deeper decline. (10 - maximum order or 1 - maximum discord)

Attribute	Score (1-10)	Brief Rationale
Social Cohesion	3​	Deep divisions persist; Ipsos index at -26%, exacerbated by inequalities and trust erosion.
Political Systems	2​	Extreme polarization; 64% see divisions as insurmountable, with low moderates (34%) and rising threats.
Economic Stability	5​	Steady 1.9% growth amid inequality (Gini 0.494); affluent spending masks vulnerabilities like tariffs.
Cultural Vitality	4​	Fragmented identity amid diversity; global influences dilute unity, though inclusion efforts continue.

 

I was born in '59, when I grew up my family attended a Baptist church every week. In that era, most families attended some kind of church. They may not have been very faithful, but at least they knew of a church just in case they ever wanted to use the services of a church [ like for a wedding or a funeral].

Starting around 2010 I was active in my local VFW, and I took on the role of their Post Chaplain. It was not a difficult role. As every meeting starts, the Chaplain stands up and reads a prayer. The biggest part of being their Chaplain was actually doing the funerals. I found that at least once a month our VFW was asked to perform a funeral. The VFW has a very nice respectful ritual. Each Post officer has a brief speech to read. While doing these funerals I often speak with the family members. I learned that in most cases, none of the family members have ever been in a church. None of them know a pastor. So even in the event of a funeral no body among the family members even knows of a pastor they can ask to do the funeral. As a result the VFW Chaplain is the only person saying a prayer at those funerals.

When that sank in, for me, I stayed on serving as their Chaplain for ten years. Not for any love of the VFW [they are just as group of combat vets who drink too much], but because at those funerals I was the only clergy offering a prayer.

It very much shocked me, that our society has completely turned its back on our churches.

 

It very much shocked me, that our society has completely turned its back on our churches.

It doesn't shock me. What has shocked me is our churches turning away from God. I quit going to church when I saw churches putting more emphasis on politics and world affairs than they did on spreading and teaching the Word.

 

The U.S. is on a path toward a lower score (higher entropy) across the four attributes—social cohesion, political systems, economic stability, and cultural vitality—based on current trends.


Evidence -

1. Social Cohesion (Current: 3/10) Assessment: Worsening. Polarization is rising (Pew: 80% view opposing party negatively), trust in institutions is near historic lows (Gallup: 20%), and inequality (Gini 0.494) fuels division.

Why: Rising polarization, declining trust, and persistent inequality deepen divisions, with misinformation and weakened community bonds accelerating social entropy.


2. Political Systems (Current: 2/10) Assessment: Deteriorating. Extreme partisanship (64% see divisions as insurmountable, Pew) and legislative gridlock (e.g., recurring debt ceiling crises) undermine governance. Threats to democratic norms and low moderate voter share (34%) signal further dysfunction. Institutional trust is eroding rapidly.

Why: Partisanship, gridlock, and eroding democratic norms weaken governance, with low trust and rising extremism driving political entropy higher.


3. Economic Stability (Current: 5/10) Assessment: Mixed but trending downward. Growth (1.9% GDP) is steady but fragile; growing inequality persists, and supply chain disruptions. Public debt (120% of GDP) and uneven recovery (top 1% hold 32% wealth) strain resilience. Without reform, vulnerabilities grow.

Why: Fragile growth, rising debt, and persistent inequality, worsened by potential tariff disruptions, threaten economic stability, increasing entropic risks.


4. Cultural Vitality (Current: 4/10) Assessment: Declining. Cultural fragmentation grows as shared identity weakens. Global influences dilute cohesion, and civic participation drops. Without a unifying narrative, identity fractures further, risking loss of collective purpose.

Why: Fragmented identity, declining civic engagement, and weakened shared values erode cultural unity, pushing toward greater entropic disorder.

 

It has nothing to do with religion.

The division is due to manipulation by the media that exploits basic human nature based on how the brain works.

In a nutshell people are either reacting based on the mechanism that houses fight or flight or they're reacting based on the thinking of the prefrontal cortex.

Manipulation activates the primitive brain. Marketing mavens have used this to sell products and opinions for a long time.

What's changed is the face time people devote to TV. the internet and smart phones. It started with TV in the 1950s or so. Expanded in the 1990s with the growth of the internet which has steadily been monetized and now entered the walk around phase with smart phones.

You can't go anywhere w/o seeing people walking around with a phone planted in their face.

The Borg exists just not the way as portrayed in the film. Same with the matrix.Again not like the film. You are valuable. Everything about you is sold a myriad of times to manipulators. AI will allow manipulators to extract more value from you.

It may seem to be scifi, but it will be possible to offer people a digital eternity. For those that don't believe in God and H&H, that will be the ultimate attraction. You'll be promised endless travel, all the books ever written and experiences adding up to an endless vacation in a fantasy land where you determine the fantasy and it takes form based on AI's analysis of your character and life experiences.

The catch is you'll have to sign a consent form for organ donation. Your body will become the property of the AI data center's owner. Keep in mind they don't harvest organs from a dead body.

Your relatives and friends will be able to interact with your digital clone which will behave exactly like the real you. That will be the premier selling point for them to follow you into a digital incarceration until at some point when no relatives or friends of friends exist when your bytes will be overwritten with another fool's.

The digital you will enable something like the outcome in Soylent Green. Except your mind and your body will be harvested.

 

It has nothing to do with religion.

My point is not so much about religion, but more related to homogeneity.

Homogeneity as a nation refers to a country characterized by a high degree of uniformity in its population’s cultural, ethnic, linguistic, or religious makeup. Such nations often have a shared history, traditions, or values that create a cohesive national identity. Examples include countries like Japan or Iceland, where the majority of the population shares similar ethnic backgrounds, languages, and cultural norms. Key features of a homogeneous nation might include:

• Cultural Unity: A dominant culture or set of traditions that most citizens identify with, such as shared holidays, cuisine, or social norms.
• Ethnic Similarity: A majority of the population belonging to a single ethnic group, with minimal diversity in ancestry.
• Linguistic Uniformity: A primary language spoken by nearly all citizens, often with little variation in dialects.
• Religious Consistency: A predominant religion or belief system that shapes societal values and practices.

This homogeneity can foster social cohesion, reduce cultural conflicts, and simplify governance, as policies can cater to a relatively uniform population.

 

Ive seen similar statistics in the UK. Theres a huge cohort of whites, from christian backgrounds, who no longer identify with the religion. They have essentially lost their faith. In its place we see depression, crippling anxieties, political fanaticism, prescription and non-prescription drug use, obsessions with technology, refusal to start families, etc, etc

All of which is unraveling the threads of our culture and civilization.

 

The United States in 2025 is one of the most diverse nations globally, characterized by significant variation in racial, ethnic, religious, linguistic, and cultural dimensions. While English and Christianity remain dominant, no single group holds a supermajority across all metrics, and demographic trends point toward increasing heterogeneity driven by immigration, multiracial identification, and secularization.

Today the USA in 2025 rates a 2 out of 10 for homogeneity, with 10 being very homogeneous. I would put it at a 7 in 1960 with a strong majority in key demographic categories.

 

Modern life has replaced faith with imitation gods.
People still need something to believe in, so they turn to ideology, politics, or technology. The phone in their hand has become their altar. These systems mimic religion—they offer rituals, moral codes, and a sense of belonging—but without any real transcendence. It’s belief without soul, worship without God.

 

The turning point was when the Obama campaign realized they could win without the white male vote, by appealing to minority and other targeted groups. From Gemini.

Based on exit polls from the 2012 election, the minority groups in the Obama coalition included:​

• African Americans: Voted for Obama in overwhelming numbers, with 93% support in 2012.
• Hispanic/Latino voters: Showed strong support, with 71% voting for Obama in 2012.
• Asian American voters: Backed Obama with 73% of their vote in 2012.

Key non-minority components of the coalition included:​

• Young voters: Backed Obama by a wide margin in both elections, though his support among them was slightly lower in 2012 compared to 2008.
• Women: Supported Obama by a decisive margin, particularly unmarried women.
• Educated white professionals: Formed another key segment of his support.

Add to the list LGBT, Jews, and Muslims.

Then the Internet and Social Media created echo chambers.

 

The turning point was when the Obama campaign realized they could win without the white male vote, by appealing to minority and other targeted groups. From Gemini.

Based on exit polls from the 2012 election, the minority groups in the Obama coalition included:​

• African Americans: Voted for Obama in overwhelming numbers, with 93% support in 2012.
• Hispanic/Latino voters: Showed strong support, with 71% voting for Obama in 2012.
• Asian American voters: Backed Obama with 73% of their vote in 2012.

Key non-minority components of the coalition included:​

• Young voters: Backed Obama by a wide margin in both elections, though his support among them was slightly lower in 2012 compared to 2008.
• Women: Supported Obama by a decisive margin, particularly unmarried women.
• Educated white professionals: Formed another key segment of his support.

Add to the list LGBT, Jews, and Muslims.

Then the Internet and Social Media created echo chambers.

Obama's campaign was a classic piece of marketing. It sold the sizzle but not the steak. Many gladly bought it thinking they would get steak.

Biden OTOH with Build Back Better sounded like an ESL effort that would get a C if graded on a curve.

MAGA promises steak for all. The jury is still out.

 

15 years ago the main difference between liberals and conservatives was how high taxes should be and even if you disagreed you could still talk and get along. During obama the demcrat party was taken over by activists who believe anyone that doesn't go along with whatever extreme activism they are engaged in is sub human. Whether it be climate cultism, trans cultism, open borders, antif communism etc. Now you can't even be in the room with one of these liberal lunatics without them wanting to scream at you at the very least or throw a molitov cocktail or bullet your way and then have the fake news claim that you had it coming because you spoke out against liberal insanity.

 

So? We didn't have to listen to all the conspiracy hand jobs back then. Now, everywhere the average right winger looks, bs lies are thrown out at them, including yours.
I know better than to fall for them, because liberals have one thing in common, a spine and common sense.

 

I know better than to fall for them, because liberals have one thing in common, a spine and common sense.

My family always laughs, oh how hard we laugh, when we hear people like you make some proclamations.

It is so consistently funny how whatever they say we know the truth is 180 degrees from what they say.

 

The reason nationalism is cast in a bad light is because it brings about homogeneity.

Japan experiences minimal civil strife, with no significant internal violence, strong societal safety, and stable governance because Japan is one of the most ethnically and culturally homogeneous nations globally, with a strong sense of shared identity rooted in language, culture, and history.

~98% ethnic Japanese, near-universal Japanese language use, and shared Shinto-Buddhist traditions.

 

America is headed toward homogeneity now. It isn't going to be white, and it likely will not be Christian.

As a white Christian, I don't see the need for it to be white. We aren't somehow better because we have less melanin, we just sunburn worse.

I wish we would be a Christian nation again, but we Christians tanked that ourselves when we attached our politics to our faith. Many would turn to Jesus if it didn't come as a package where if you don't vote gop you really cannot call yourself saved.

I remember as a Baptist at the time being taught the doctrine of soul sufficiency. That meant we could hold different political beliefs and still be happily part of the same church. No more. (Your experience may vary.) My point is we focused on leading people to Jesus and experiencing life changing conversion. You still want to party Saturday night, get drunk, chase women other than your wife, beat your kids, be a dead beat on debts, or do drugs? Have at it but you're out of the church. Today the focus is on "taking back the country for Christ" meaning NOT seeking the salvation of souls but rather passing laws to force obedience to how we believe the Bible orders society.

Don't get me wrong. Wrong is still wrong and right is still right. We turned cowards in the face of the enemy of our souls and have basically said Satan is right, Jesus cannot save and change people. So we will just make them behave with laws and punishments.

Nope. Just nope. The law can serve a just purpose, and strong laws and punishments can be good to prevent theft, murder, and so on. But that will never populate heaven.

We need to separate our faith and our politics. Jesus tells us to feed the hungry. One sees that as a command to take some sandwiches to the homeless or vote for welfare programs. Another sees it as a command to offer jobs with a living wage and vote against social welfare programs. And that is all right. We don't have to see eye to eye to serve Him together.

You can never legislate a Christian nation. You can only seek the salvation of souls. A big enough revival will make it a Christian nation where laws and politics never can.

 

We need to separate our faith and our politics.

Interesting. What else should we divorce our faith from, or rather just tell Christ to MYOB?

 

Federal and state data indicate that support is provided for 200-400 distinct languages across the country.

 

I don't know that the division is so much religious based. I think it's more that a great deal of society no longer knows the difference between right and wrong, good and evil, etc. No doubt some of that is from not getting any exposure to religion but there is a lot more to it than that.

The biggest societal damage I've seen in my lifetime is getting away from the nuclear family and two parents in the home raising the kids. It's normal now for very young girls to get pregnant and the guy is allowed to skate free taking no responsibility. People act like this is no big deal. In years past there would have been a "shotgun wedding" and the guy would have had his feet held to the fire to take care of the woman and child. I understand a shotgun wedding didn't always lead to the most perfect marriage but it did make the kids think about it a little more seriously before jumping in the sack together.

There are exceptions to everything but a great many of the children from these hook ups are very poorly raised with little supervision and horrible role models. This results in problem kids that don't know right from wrong, puts a whole lot more on the government feed bag and all kinds of other problems. This has been going on in bigger and bigger numbers and we now have several generations of dysfunctional families and troublesome offspring from these families.

Now, having grown up not knowing right from wrong they think it's okay to kill unborn babies by the millions, it's okay for boys to think they are girls and vice versa, it's okay to quit school, it's okay to do drugs, it's okay to live in a tent and poop on the street, it's okay to open our borders to criminals, nobody should have to work, the government should take care of us, let the daycare and schools raise my kids, etc, etc. You get the message.

I do think some religious exposure would do many people a lot of good, but right and wrong / good and bad is first taught in the home.

 

Its funny but coming from New York, Ive seen this play out many times; The people who stand thumping their chest about how they dont care about race are the ones that end up needing an escort to the grocery store when "diversity" sets in their town.

The ones who have the money leave the wreckage they helped create behind, and then onto the next town where they do the same thing.

 

Nothing says 'spine and common sense' like driving alone in your car with a mask on.

 

 

Who benefits the most from a divided country? I would say that the Democrat Party, and all the organizations that feed off of it, are the ones that benefit the most. If one group wasn't pitted against another, there would be no reason for today's Democrat Party to exist.

The best way to solve the problem, is to destroy the Democrat Party by continuing to weaken their hold on minorities. I am always frustrated by the Republican's failure to develop a strategy for large urban areas, and to field strong candidates in the cities. It's almost like the Republicans want divided government and a divided country.

 

If they ever get back into power, they will not relinquish it. God put Trump in the wilderness years so when he came out he would know how to fix the country. We must return to the roots of our forefathers. This is a battle between Good and Evil and we must crush evil into the dust.

 

Because half of the population believes the lies the media tells them, and the other half doesn't.

 

That's true. The question is why?

 

Because half of the population believes the lies the media tells them, and the other half doesn't.

That's true. The question is why?

And that my friends is the question.

We people, as a whole, are one part.

This is what I have concluded after lots of study.

The brains (thought) of conservatives have a larger amygdala; a brain region linked to fear and threat detection. This may make them more sensitive to perceived threats, favoring stability, tradition, and hierarchical systems.​

​

Liberals' brains (thought) are driven by the anterior cingulate cortex, conversely, show greater activity in the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC), associated with conflict resolution and openness to new ideas, which may align with embracing change and social equality.​

In its simplest terms we think differently.

We would have a very beautiful world if we could work together with both brains in harmony. Sadly, we repel each other. We fight each other for dominance. Our nature drives a conservative to prioritize strong leadership and tradition, while a driven liberal pushes for systemic change.

It is our nature to be divided. We are not strong enough to use our given talents for our mutual benefit.

 

There are only three types of people involved with religion. Victims, perpetrators , and enablers of affinity fraud. Usually politicians tend to be perpetrators.

 

Which category would Bonhoeffer fit into best?

 

Why America is so divided.
Smart people will always separate themselves from stupid people, because they know changing them is impossible.

 

The phrase "Never discuss politics and religion" has been around at least since the mid 19th century, yet here we are.

 

Almost everything is 'religion.' That goes to belief. Belief is for many their religion. It is circular - people believe in SOMETHING until something better comes along. What is that belief if the foundation shifts with the wind?

Sometimes being wrong is good. At least people know you have no foundation, if you are consistent.