[Irish Pixie]

I'm glad you didn't go down that road, and I agree there are points at which even people who are predisposed to alcoholism can choose to drink, or not drink.

I think the mistake that is made is assuming it's as easy for person A to not start drinking or to quit drinking as person B. We all have different things going on chemically in our brains that make us susceptible to different things. As mentioned in this thread, different people have wildly different reactions to the same substance.

I personally got lucky in that I didn't inherit whatever thing causes one to crave alcohol. I can drink, excessively if I want, and walk away from it and not think about drinking again for months or years. Other people I love dearly weren't that lucky.

On the other hand, I constantly battle a life-long addiction to nicotine. I quit smoking 5 or more years ago, but cannot get off the nicotine gum. Tried and failed so many times, and feel like a loser every time I go back because I literally feel like I'm losing my mind without nicotine. So there's something I can equate with drinking that allows me to understand the addiction cycle and not cast as much blame on people that are stuck in it with me. Only the things we are addicted to differ, not the addiction mechanism. And mine is more socially acceptable.

I’m the same way with alcohol, close family members are not.

I quit smoking and used nicotine gum for a long, long time. I finally switched over to regular gum, and still chew a lot of it.

My issue is sugar. If I have some I want more and crave it. Iusually just avoid it all together.

 

[Mish]

I’m the same way with alcohol, close family members are not.

I quit smoking and used nicotine gum for a long, long time. I finally switched over to regular gum, and still chew a lot of it.

My issue is sugar. If I have some I want more and crave it. Iusually just avoid it all together.

I was able to completely quit one time for 8 months by tricking myself with regular gum until I weaned myself off nicotine completely. Then my sister showed up for a visit (staying at my house) with her two-pack a day habit and I fell off the wagon in a bad way, went straight back to smoking instead of gum and have been trying to recover from that since. She came for a visit this year and I had one cigarette (which was gross, so that's good) and stuck with my gum the rest of the time. I think that's progress, I'll take it. - for the record, not blaming my sister, completely my fault -

So, on the sugar thing, I've noticed this connection between sugar and alcohol addiction in my family. The alcoholics tend to really LOVE sugar. The others (like myself) tend to be more fat freaks. I'll take a piece of bacon (or the fat off your pork chop, whatever lol) over candy any day of the week. Runs true pretty much through my family...wonder if there's anything to the sugar/fat preference.

 

[barnbilder]

Literally everything you say, I can say I've done with cigarettes. Had cigarettes stashed in places I knew I would need them (car, back porch, purse, etc). I used to refuse to empty out the large ashtray I had, in case I ever ran out of smokes. Then I would dig through the butts to find some that still had enough tobacco to be smokeable. Even if other people had come over and smoked, I'd smoke their old butts (gross, I know, that's addiction). I've freaked out on people who didn't deserve it when I'd gone too long without my fix, or if I picked up that last pack and realized it was empty. I didn't go certain places or to certain events because I couldn't make it through the time I'd have to be there without a smoke.

I'm not an alcoholic, but I do completely get it. I'm glad you've been able to overcome it to the point that you have.

I've gone a few rounds with that monkey on my back too. Keep trying, every time I ever quit was easier than the last time. You'll finally get so good at it that it sticks. Tobacco will kill you. Usually takes a long time. Alcohol can be a very quick killer, and can kill innocent bystanders. Neither one of them is good for anybody.

But there are people that can buy a pack of cigarettes and smoke two of them at a party nightclub and ride around with the pack in the car all week. There are people that can take a drink or two every night for a month and then have half a bottle in the cabinet for months. I never was either of those people.

 

[MoonRiver]

I drank to excess, but it was never an addiction. I could drink 1 or 2 beers and stop, or I could drink 15 beers. But it was always my choice depending on where I was. I could stop or pace myself, so that I felt safe driving home (although I probably wasn't).

I could not drink for days or drink every day. For me it was the energy I felt from drinking. I came out of my shell and was very personable. I also found I thought better the day after drinking. I might have had a hangover, but my brain was firing on all cylinders.

I've since learned I have a genetic problem digesting and metabolizing fats, which helps explain why I was so dependent on the energy I got from alcohol.

I still enjoy drinking a beer, but have probably drank 2 in the last 6 months. I buy a 6 pack now instead of 12 packs or cases.

 

[dyrne]

I found Dick Van ****'s old chat I stumbled across on youtube not too long ago on this topic pretty inspiring. It is interesting that our understanding of alcoholism hasn't really changed in 50 years, we've just narrowed down in more detail on the mechanisms.

 

[prinellie]

Most addicts are just that. It’s not really about the alcohol - it’s about the addiction. You can be addicted to sports, to gambling, to cigarettes, to lifting weights, pornography. I think, like GTX63 said, it can give you the victim mentality to continue. Some things are harder to quit than others but with a good belief system it is my opinion you can stop anything you really want to

 

[Mish]

Most addicts are just that. It’s not really about the alcohol - it’s about the addiction. You can be addicted to sports, to gambling, to cigarettes, to lifting weights, pornography. I think, like GTX63 said, it can give you the victim mentality to continue. Some things are harder to quit than others but with a good belief system it is my opinion you can stop anything you really want to

I disagree. It is about the alcohol, or the nicotine, or the heroin, or the gambling or whatever happens to float your brain's boat. That doesn't mean people can't be and aren't addicted to multiple things, but most people are going to have one thing they love more than anything else in the world, and don't consider it interchangeable with any other addiction.

I've never been addicted to anything but cigarettes. Never felt a chemical craving or even the emotional "love" for a substance other than nicotine. I'd be just fine for the rest of my life if I never had a drop of alcohol/any other drug, or never gambled again, or whatever else one might consider an addiction. I literally feel like my best friend is going to die when I think about never having nicotine again, it's almost an unbearable thought. I'd give up almost anything to be able to smoke consequence free (obviously excluding my family ). I don't and haven't ever felt that way about any other substance or activity.

I'm not an addictive personality at all other than the dang nicotine. I'm pretty boring, can't really come up with anything else I couldn't easily live without. You do get people who just jump from one addiction to the other, but I think those are more rare, at least in my personal experience. People tend to stick with their addictive equivalent of "true love" or they sober up, and nothing really replaces that one thing you love more than all others.

Yes, anyone can stop doing anything they really don't want to do. The sticking point is what makes doing those things worth the pain for some people and not others? And why is/was it so much harder for your mom to quit drinking than it was for you? I don't believe it has anything to do with willpower or morals, I really believe it has more to do with chemical interactions in the brain. My brain really loves nicotine, couldn't care less about alcohol or anything else that people get addicted to. Other people have brains that really love alcohol, or opioids, or marijuana, or gambling, or...

Lastly, I'm not a victim of anything. I just love nicotine way more than I should. No victim mentality here, it is what it is. Though it would be nice if science could find ways for people to combat the chemical imbalances that lead to addiction without having to go through what addicts do, instead of just blaming people for not being strong enough to fight the chemicals.

 

[prinellie]

Respectfully, you just agreed with me - ‘anyone can stop doing anything they really don’t want to do’. You don’t want to stop - so no you are not a victim. Has nothing to do with “imbalances”.

 

[Mish]

Respectfully, you just agreed with me - ‘anyone can stop doing anything they really don’t want to do’. You don’t want to stop - so no you are not a victim.

Did you just totally skip the part where I said I'm not a victim? And the other part where I repeated that the point isn't whether or not you can/can't stop, but why there are different levels of difficulty in doing so from person to person?

Has nothing to do with “imbalances”.

Science disagrees with you, I'd highly suggest reading the article that started this thread.

 

[MoonRiver]

Respectfully, you just agreed with me - ‘anyone can stop doing anything they really don’t want to do’. You don’t want to stop - so no you are not a victim. Has nothing to do with “imbalances”.

I'm betting you never had a serious problem with alcohol or cigarettes.

 

[prinellie]

I'm betting you never had a serious problem with alcohol or cigarettes.

I chose not to... I smoked for 30+ years. And I started drinking at 14

 

[Terri]

Where there is no temptation to drink, then a person is not more virtuous when they do not drink.

Fuzzy navels are delicious. But when I have finished it, I am not virtuous for turning down a second one. I seriously dislike the feeling drunk. It is highly unpleasant, and so I can not climb on my high horse and brag "I never have more than one drink".

I do not brag that I do not hit myself with a hammer, and I do not brag that I never have a second drink.

Other people are not so blessed: for some people alcohol is even a bigger temptation than chocolate. (As I diabetic I really should stay away from full-sugar chocolate, but sometimes I weaken)

 

[Miss Kay]

Yes, people can stop doing anything they want. The problem is living with the pain from stopping what ever it is your brain craves. If you've never felt the crave, then you can't understand the pain that takes over your every thought when you live without it.

 

[secuono]

I posted about alcoholism awhile ago in a different forum & was terribly disappointed by how nearly everyone who commented was 100% okay with alcoholics & didn't understand how little it takes to be one. Sickening how it is accepted it is.

 

[HDRider]

I have stopped many times.

 

[MO_cows]

Most addicts are just that. It’s not really about the alcohol - it’s about the addiction. You can be addicted to sports, to gambling, to cigarettes, to lifting weights, pornography. I think, like GTX63 said, it can give you the victim mentality to continue. Some things are harder to quit than others but with a good belief system it is my opinion you can stop anything you really want to

That is true. One of my uncles was alcoholic, went on the wagon when his youngest daughter was little, he raised her. Stayed sober the rest of his life. But later in life he developed a gambling addiction.

 

[barnbilder]

Nicotine alters the brain in a way that causes addiction in most nicotine users. With alcohol the chemical addiction only comes into play with some users. Nicotine is more addictive, but alcohol is every bit as addictive to someone predisposed to being an alcoholic.

 

[barnbilder]

There are many layers to addiction. There are elements of habit. Everyone else has a pack of cigs in their sleeve, I want to be a cool kid, so Ill hang out with the cool kids and smoke when they smoke. Everyone else is taking a smoke break, so I'll join them. If it makes you sick and you decide it's not for you, you may be able to break free without experiencing chemical addiction. But after regular use the nicotine changes some brain chemicals around, and then when you are out of cigs, your skin crawls, and you snap at people until you find a butt in the ash tray, or make up an excuse to go to the store. This is the chemical addiction.

Takes around a hundred days for the brain to rewire itself. Every time you smoke, it's day one again. The habit part is the urge to light up when you get in a car, after a meal, etc. Your hand reaches instinctively for a pocket. The skin crawling, brain fog and irrational behavior are part of the chemical addiction.

You can break a habit by conscious behavior regulation in about seven days. Replacing a habit with another habit is one of the easiest ways to break a habit.

Nicotine gum exchanges habits without dealing with the chemical addiction. The key is to switch habits from grabbing a cigarette to grabbing a stick of gum instinctively and then replace the nicotine gum with regular gum. Every time you grab a stick of nicotine gum you are starting at zero in terms of the time it takes for the brain to rewire itself. The only way to stop using nicotine is to stop using nicotine. There is no cutting back, and weaning oneself off of it, once full chemical addiction takes place.

The first three days are the worst, the next 4 to six are moderately bad, and then for about 40 more days the cravings will get weaker and weaker and come less often. The nicotine dreams or random cravings and the odd impulse to stop at the store and buy a pack will persist for 90 to 100 days.

Alcohol is comparatively a cake walk. Do three to seven days dealing with the skin crawlies and insanity and you have that part of it licked. But a drink puts you back at square one, every time. An alcoholic can self regulate, but the chemical addiction is maintained. An alcoholic can drink "a couple" to defeat the skin crawlies, at 4 o'clock, or whenever the habitual time is, and string alcoholism along for infinity (or until liver failure). Life events and opportunity trigger heavier drinking. IE, a four day weekend allows starting at breakfast and staying drunk until passout time on the last day of the stretch. Family conflict or vehicle failure can make the normal loading dose, of a couple, to maintain/satisfy the chemical cravings, turn into a fifth, or a 24 pack. As time passes, the triggering factors for heavy drinking become less and less significant. The loading dose increases. Hiding alcohol consumption from others kicks in. Feelings of guilt and shame kick in. The thought process changes from "look at me, I'm the life of the party", to "I'm a stinky, no account drunk". This leads to depression, which gets self medicated with the cause of the depression. It is a more heavily mood altering addiction than nicotine addiction, and a little harder to decide to combat, but a little easier to combat once that decision is made.

The decision can only be made by the individual. Any attempt by outsiders is met with some crazy defensive behavior. I have no doubt that Tolkein had dealt with addiction, either personally or through someone he was close to, when he made the Smeagol character. The source of your addiction is "your precious", and any attempt to separate you from "your precious" is viewed as an attack, and draws you closer to "your precious". Even hospitalization or incarceration can fail to break the cycle of addiction, if the addict decides to go find "the precious" as soon as he is released. They have to decide on their own that their precious is killing them, and that they need to stay the H away from that substance at all costs, despite cravings, peer pressure, or calamity. That switch has to click for the cycle to be broken. Takes death in some instances.

 

[Mish]

Nicotine alters the brain in a way that causes addiction in most nicotine users. With alcohol the chemical addiction only comes into play with some users. Nicotine is more addictive, but alcohol is every bit as addictive to someone predisposed to being an alcoholic.

I agree somewhat in that most people can become addicted to cigarettes (in the way that some people can become alcohol abusers but not actually alcoholic), but I do think there are people that it affects more than others.

Myself and my husband are good examples. We both smoked when we met in the military - everyone smoked in the military back then. At some point a few years into our relationship, he just decided he was going to stop smoking. On a ship. In the middle of the ocean. With hundreds of other guys on the ship chain smoking because there's not much else to do. Then he came home to me, a pack a day smoker for many years after he quit, never had another cigarette. My brain says, not only no, but hell no, I would never be successful under those circumstances - any more than an alcoholic would be successful quitting on a floating 24-7 bar in the middle of the ocean, or living with a partner that drinks like a fish.

There's a difference in the way he felt about smoking, too, both before and after he quit. He didn't think about it every second of the day when he was smoking. Usually, he'd smoke when someone asked if he wanted to go for a smoke break so he could go outside, always one, but only one, after dinner, or socially. If he just had a cigarette, he'd never smoke another immediately after, said it made him feel sick, even after years of smoking. I, on the other hand, smoked at my desk. Chain smoked. Then went outside when someone wanted me to go with them for a smoke break. Cigarette in my hand/mouth as soon as I left a building I wasn't allowed to smoke in, immediately after any time I ate, as soon as I got in the car, seconds after waking up in the morning. The guys at work used to sing that song "You talk to much" to me but replaced "talk" with "smoke" lol To this day I have wonderful dreams where I'm just sitting there, smoking, they are lovely...then I wake up and am immediately depressed because I can't smoke in real life. I was/am addicted. Husband has only ever been addicted in the loosest sense of the word. His brain wanted the nicotine, yes, but not in the way that mine demanded it.

His parents were the same way. His mother smoked socially for a few decades and quit cold turkey, never looked back. She tells me it was rough for a week or so but fairly easy after that. His father chain smoked until he died at 84 of emphysema. He came up with the craziest plans to quit smoking (smoking through a drinking straw that had holes punched in it so you felt like you were smoking but didn't get much of it in your mouth/lungs, etc), none ever successful. In hospice, he used to teasingly (but not, if I'd have given him one, he'd have taken it) beg me for a cigarette.

Most people can become addicted to cigarettes. But most people can also walk away. Unless your brain is perfectly wired for it.

 

[Grafton County Couple]

My response to those who offered me 'a drink' when I told them "I've put down the bottle" . . . I'll happily take the money instead.