I doubt this vaccine. If anything it seems to spread things rather than behaving like a traditional vaccine should.

 

All of the sources promoting it have proven themselves to be untrustworthy IMHO.

 

The ”vaccine” is useless. Worse than useless, it causes the virus to spread due to ppl assume ing they are untouchable. And the number of ppl with terrible reactions and deaths is a bit too high for my liking.

 

Moon you are as good a Ducker as anyone.

I have to think you looked.

I doubt the answer to that question exists.

 

Moon you are as good a Ducker as anyone. I have to think you looked.

I doubt the answer to that question exists.

I was leaning towards it being propaganda like much of the covid information is, but I have recently heard several doctors who treat Covid patients say that the unvaccinated patients tend to have more severe cases than the vaccinated.

I have been disappointed we are not seeing more studies that compare the vaccines. Now that people can mix vaccines it makes it that much harder to determine if one is more effective (or dangerous) than another.

 

We will know in a few decades. It’s MUCH too early to hope for data and reliable analysis.

 

We'll know the history the victors of the battle want us to know in a few decades.

 

You all better watch your typing. The vaccine nazis will be along to tell us how we are making this political and being hysterical about spreading our self-serving propaganda.

 

With all of the fervor of someone named Karen that is involved with an essential oil mid-level-marketing scheme.

 

I admit there are no propaganda stories about how vaccinated people spent weeks in the hospital, sick with covid. I see the stories about unvaccinated people in the hospital or dieing from covid every day.

It still does not help us get past the pandemic when vaccinated people still get sick with covid and spread covid.

 

Consider that there are two castes of people. One is comprised of movers and shakers that are in public circulation quite a bit. Some of them probably caught one of the wuflu family of diseases before it much more than grabbed the first headline. The other group has spent this time hiding, wearing a mask, wringing hands slathered in hand sanitizer, ordering from grub hub. The second group might include those who are older, more prone to heart disease, diabetes, maybe ever so slightly more prone to being overweight. The disease family is new. Nobody has so much as an antiquated copy of an antibody. The first group, if they survive the disease, have antibodies that are highly effective against the strain that they contracted. The second group, if they got vaccinated, can make antibodies based on a part of a copy of the original model that the vaccines were based on. Every strain that comes through, of strains that are multiplying exponentially, can be recognized more rapidly by someone with antibodies for the original

In some cases, the virus proliferates enough to do severe damage to things like lung tissue, before the body can mount an immune response and produce antibodies in sufficient quantities to stop the infection. If the damage is too severe, the virus particles that are tagged by antibodies can't be picked up by white blood cells that clean them up, because the white blood cells can't get there because of damage and inflammation. this is where you end up in the hospital on a ventilator.

If you are part of the second group of people, and you decided to forgo the vaccine, it's going to be a brand new experience and it's going to be a crap shoot, if you have any underlying conditions, it could be bad. Unless you already had it and thought it was just a cold, as can be the case. If you get a variant, it's still a brand new experience for your body, which will have to start from scratch. Your slow lumbering giant white blood cells are going to have to stumble into a virus particle, trap it, study it, and begin manufacturing antibodies that are shaped perfectly to fit the virus shape like puzzle piece. Once there are enough antibodies produced, they will latch onto any virus that they come across, preveting it from attaching to a living cell and causing that cell to replicate the virus until it is spent. The white blood cells scoop up viruses that have been trapped by an antibody. The white blood cells also make additional antibodies. All these things take time, and time might be precious to you if you are at risk of serious complications for infection.

When new variants come along, the puzzle piece might not fit quite right, and you spend that precious time again, making the correct interlocking shape for an antibody. If it's still similar enough, it might do a good enough job to get the ball rolling The antibodies that are formed as a result of the vaccine are based on a part of the whole virus. If the variant is different enough in that part, it could be almost totally ineffective. But it could give you enough time to start making antibodies for the variant you are exposed to before serious damage is done. It's not great, but it's the best we can do at this time.

If you haven't had the virus, or the vaccine, and you are at risk of serious complications, if it were me, I would go get the shot. I fell like I personally have had the original and a couple of variants, based on symptoms, and other people in the same circles getting tests. Not worried personally, as I'm not at huge risk of serious complications, to my current knowledge. But if you get it, it's going to be a brand new experience and you don't know how you will react. Some shot in the dark miniscule antibody response is better than starting from nothing. You could wait until there is a really mild variant going around and go lick all the doorknobs, but the quack doctor vaccine that we won't be able to see the test results from for 50 years is the best thing that we have short of infection. Maybe pick a time that your local hospital has extra room and go visit someone who has tested positive and is sick, get the jab, or hide out in a cave the rest of your life, those are your three options at this time.

 

Consider that there are two castes of people. One is comprised of movers and shakers that are in public circulation quite a bit. Some of them probably caught one of the wuflu family of diseases before it much more than grabbed the first headline. The other group has spent this time hiding, wearing a mask, wringing hands slathered in hand sanitizer, ordering from grub hub. The second group might include those who are older, more prone to heart disease, diabetes, maybe ever so slightly more prone to being overweight. The disease family is new. Nobody has so much as an antiquated copy of an antibody. The first group, if they survive the disease, have antibodies that are highly effective against the strain that they contracted. The second group, if they got vaccinated, can make antibodies based on a part of a copy of the original model that the vaccines were based on. Every strain that comes through, of strains that are multiplying exponentially, can be recognized more rapidly by someone with antibodies for the original

In some cases, the virus proliferates enough to do severe damage to things like lung tissue, before the body can mount an immune response and produce antibodies in sufficient quantities to stop the infection. If the damage is too severe, the virus particles that are tagged by antibodies can't be picked up by white blood cells that clean them up, because the white blood cells can't get there because of damage and inflammation. this is where you end up in the hospital on a ventilator.

If you are part of the second group of people, and you decided to forgo the vaccine, it's going to be a brand new experience and it's going to be a crap shoot, if you have any underlying conditions, it could be bad. Unless you already had it and thought it was just a cold, as can be the case. If you get a variant, it's still a brand new experience for your body, which will have to start from scratch. Your slow lumbering giant white blood cells are going to have to stumble into a virus particle, trap it, study it, and begin manufacturing antibodies that are shaped perfectly to fit the virus shape like puzzle piece. Once there are enough antibodies produced, they will latch onto any virus that they come across, preveting it from attaching to a living cell and causing that cell to replicate the virus until it is spent. The white blood cells scoop up viruses that have been trapped by an antibody. The white blood cells also make additional antibodies. All these things take time, and time might be precious to you if you are at risk of serious complications for infection.

When new variants come along, the puzzle piece might not fit quite right, and you spend that precious time again, making the correct interlocking shape for an antibody. If it's still similar enough, it might do a good enough job to get the ball rolling The antibodies that are formed as a result of the vaccine are based on a part of the whole virus. If the variant is different enough in that part, it could be almost totally ineffective. But it could give you enough time to start making antibodies for the variant you are exposed to before serious damage is done. It's not great, but it's the best we can do at this time.

If you haven't had the virus, or the vaccine, and you are at risk of serious complications, if it were me, I would go get the shot. I fell like I personally have had the original and a couple of variants, based on symptoms, and other people in the same circles getting tests. Not worried personally, as I'm not at huge risk of serious complications, to my current knowledge. But if you get it, it's going to be a brand new experience and you don't know how you will react. Some shot in the dark miniscule antibody response is better than starting from nothing. You could wait until there is a really mild variant going around and go lick all the doorknobs, but the quack doctor vaccine that we won't be able to see the test results from for 50 years is the best thing that we have short of infection. Maybe pick a time that your local hospital has extra room and go visit someone who has tested positive and is sick, get the jab, or hide out in a cave the rest of your life, those are your three options at this time.

I felt sure I had it about 3 weeks ago, so I had an antibodies test and I didn't. My antibodies are about 105 (don't remember the measurement scale) which was from my J&J vaccine almost 6 months ago. As far as I know, there hasn't been any data published as to how high antibodies should be to indicate protection from serious disease. I know 105 is low, but I don't know if it is still protective.

I also take Ivermectin, zinc and quercetin, vitamin D level is high, use a povidone-based nasal spray, and a mouthwash that kills viruses. I also have black seed oil and honey ready if I get any symptoms.

After 2 years with this virus, it's criminal that more data is not available.

 

Funny thing is I’m not talking to any one that can say they know of a lot of people dying vaxed or not vaxed ?
I know lots of people that have had it , a few where hospitalized for a fewdays and where released . Very strange
I know lots of doctors and nurses but they don’t really know what’s happening , no one is talking

 

People that live in isolated areas, that typically have little trust for governments and doctors, have little reason to extend their trust at this time. They may not be in the best of health, and it might not be incredibly hard to overwhelm the hospitals they have access to. Now that vaccinated tourists are traveling into these areas once again, many of them are probably being infected for the first time, and being mostly unvaccinated, and having not been previously infected, the ones that are having serious side effects from infection probably are overwhelming their hospitals.

 

Fill in your favorite speculation below:






Thank you.

 

Daughter is a doctor doing internal med residency. It’s hard to tell the patient and family where this goes once admitted. Vast majority coming in are unvaccinated.

 

Yet other doctors say just the opposite.

 

No idea on my end . One nephew and I did the injectable ivermectin and orally. Left over from the cows. I did the J&J too. He tested positive and I never went to get tested...

 

We just buried my fully vaccinated FIL this afternoon....The Dr seems to think it ws a vaccine reaction.

 

I am very sorry for your loss.

 

My nieces lost their step grandfather, before the vaccine was available. One of my neighbors, elderly and in bad shape, died from the virus but I don't know his vax status. Last month hubby lost 2 family members. One a nursing home resident so most likely vaccinated. The other was one of her children, most likely vaccinated so he could visit the nursing home.

I will say this about the Ohio breakthrough case dashboard. Cases are counted, both vaxxed and unvaxxed, from Jan 1. It would be more informative if it ran from the time the vaccines were widely available instead. Including the time when most people could not get the shot is very misleading as a comparison.

 

Your are so right. Few people realize when CDC was saying the rise was caused by the unvaccinated, they deliberately used a time frame when the vaccines were just becoming available (Jan. 2020) so for 2/3 of the time period used, only a few non-medical and high risk individuals were being vaccinated.

 

I just came off shift from the ED.

About half my patients this week have been covid. One death, older, multiple comorbidities, and unvaccinated.

Today I admitted 2 unvaccinated. One to the ICU and will likely require a tube and a vent.

Sent home about ten. A mix of vaccinated and young/healthy unvaccinated.

Did the same thing last week. Will do the same thing next week.

The vaccine is good. It's not great. It's nowhere NEAR as good as TPTB promised us it would be. Reduces likelihood of getting covid at least a bit, maybe more. Probably reduces viral load by at least a bit, maybe more (therefore reduces chance of spreading).

I think it absolutely improves the odds of the recipient avoiding severe disease. Even those I don't admit, the ones with the vaccine are the ones who (generally) come in looking better, with better vitals, who frequently just haven't taken Tylenol or ibuprofen, or just "not getting better yet". The unvaccinated are frequently sicker.

The vaccine also has risks, specifically cardiomyositis, but it seems that is more risky for the young, especially boys. Exquisitely rarely we see Guillaune Barre, etc.

I deteste the mandates, and Fauci should be in jail for lying. And I think the older/more co-morbid you are the more you should get the vaccine.

That being said, my young son won't be getting it. Fortunately every single one of our older kids have already had the disease and survived. Somehow my wife and I, who swim in covid every shift (and are vaccinated) haven't gotten it yet.

That's my experience, and it is congruent with what I read in the rapidly changing literature.

I encourage you to get vaccinated, but respect your decision if you don't.

 

@boatswain2PA , thank you for an honest viewpoint.

 

Barnbuilder, that's about the most reasonable and logical take I've seen, to date, regarding this whole snafu. Thank you.

 

it's hard to tell from the data if the vax really improves morbidiity & mortality because it arrived on the scene just about the same time as the milder Delta Var did.-- In its favor, the vaxxed people seem to make up a smaller percentage of the hospitalizations and deaths.

Once again, let's compare the CoV vax to the whooping cough vax (pertussis) available since the 1940s-- prior to the vax ~40,000 kids got whooping cough every year and 20%+ of them died...Now, 50,000 still get it (although pop has more than doubled) but almost nobody dies.

 

I don't know the data on pertussis, but isn't most of the infections today older folks (with waning immunity from their pertussis vaccine decades ago) who just get the nasty cough, but it's the very little ones who get the more fatal whooping cough?

 

Thanks, everyone for taking my question seriously. I am a little bit better educated now.

If I wasn't taking preventative and early treatment supplements, I think I would get a second shot. But since I am, I think I will wait until we see more information on Omicron. If it proves to be a more mild form of the virus with lower hospitalization and death, I probably won't get a 2nd shot. If it is about the same as Delta I will.

At the first sign of Covid-19, I will increase Ivermectin and add in black seed oil, get tested, and if positive get treated with monoclonal antibodies. Hopefully, that is enough to tip things in my favor.

 

There are some scientists who speculate that omecron may be the way out of this.

It is very transmissible, yet the symptoms appear to be mild.

This is how we got rid of the measles, we were infected with a mild version of the disease and became protected.

Not much money for big pharma and the health system conglomerates, but "Let's go Brandon!"

 

Approx 20 to 25 people a year die from pertussis, which isn't very many.

Deaths due to whooping cough U.S. 1990-2019| Statista

In 2019, it was estimated that there were around 10 deaths due to whooping cough (pertussis) in the United States.

www.statista.com

 

Spoke to an older friend today. He was not going to accept the jab, but became worried after repeatedly hearing about the possibility of spreading the virus to others.

He took the jabs, and became ill after the first jab. The nurse said that the second jab would not make him sick, because the first one did.

He became even sicker with the second jab, hitting a temp of 105*, and out of commission for over a week.

With the new reports that those who are jabbed are both contracting and spreading the virus, my friend became very angry. He is not mad at the people who shared the news with him. Nope, he is angry at those who lied and continue to lie to us. He also informed that his group of "old farts drinkin' coffee and cussin' down at the filling station" is also angry at the lies now coming to light.

These are reasonably intelligent people who are not ashamed to admit that they acted out of fear and concern, and they are also not ashamed to state that they are angry as H-E-double-hockey-sticks about being lied to by people they trusted.

For the record, my friend told me that his doctor admonished him NOT to get the jab. Friend got sick in the first wave, and was sick as a dog for 2 long months. Doc told him he had immunity, and friend said doc read him the riot act for getting the jab.

I love my older friends who hide nothing, and teach me so much by their responses to life's travails.

 

The fact that they are testing an updated jab for effectiveness against omnicron should tell you all you need to know about the effectiveness of the previous jab against omnicron. By the time it gets out of testing, of course, there will be a new variant that the then current jab will have limited effectiveness against, as has been the case all along.

 

And they want you to have had the 3 original shots before getting the omicron shot.

 

Can I just have the three previous strains and then catch omnicron instead?

 

I remember being but a wee lad, getting my shots, and hearing the doctor explain how vaccines were so important, and asking him why they don't make a vaccine for the cold. He said something about, a lot of the cold viruses mutate so fast, the vaccine wouldn't work for it anymore. Which caused me to go home and see if he was lying by consulting the internet at that time, which was the encyclopedia brittanica. His answer seemed plausible, from a practicality standpoint, based on the science of the late seventies. I always remembered that discussion, and confirmed it in various periodicals, right on up through the internet. Looking into various livestock vaccines, the lack of a cold vaccine was a common reference in discussions about vaccine availability, "it mutates too fast, like the cold". When you consider testing requirements, time to market, it makes anything approaching a mandate seem really silly.