Interesting. I wouldn't call it a 'terrible read' although I could do without the one-sided political statements given that this problem has continued unabated over the course of multiple administrations of both flavors for a very long time. It is a subject I have found troubling for a long time and serves to remind me that I would likely be more liberal than I am in the event I believed that something workable could be fashioned to work in the hands of government. I find it distressing that only a precious few churches give a flip, especially given that among private entities, they are often the best equipped to act to good effect.

All said and done, my biggest concern is that of finding effective solutions that are sustainable over the long term as opposed to feel-good government intervention that assuages the consciences of generally left of center voters while not effectively addressing the problem. The problems in California say much about this particular problem in my reckoning. Surely to goodness there must be a workable solution somewhere in between saying 'not my circus, not my monkeys' and 'doing something' in the name of doing something whether it is effective or not, or sustainably cost-effective or not.

 

why 41m Americans are living in poverty.

Many of them have mental problems and don't want any help.
Living "in poverty" here is still a step above living in most third world countries.

 

If they had proper mental health treatment there wouldn't be so many on the streets because they would accept help. It's a vicious circle and mental health care in the US just sucks. Bare minimum meds to stabilize and send them out without a bit of structured treatment. We as a people and country are better than this.

 

Paying people to be poor tends to create more poor people.

 

This is true. I am not exactly sure how to go about it, but the type of solution I would envision would involve enough local control to prevent blind ineffectiveness in the course of throwing money at the wall, and would encourage self-improvement by not having an all-or-nothing threshold where people get the rug jerked out from under them for trying to do for themselves as much as they can. At the same time, it must be sustainable in all ways including not bankrupting the government or becoming excessively burdensome to the tax base.

If they had proper mental health treatment there wouldn't be so many on the streets because they would accept help. It's a vicious circle and mental health care in the US just sucks. Bare minimum meds to stabilize and send them out without a bit of structured treatment. We as a people and country are better than this.

It seems like a situation that reinforces the notion that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. How would you go about putting a solution into practice?

 

We suffer from "classified shelters"
Big shelter in town backed by government funding, city state.....with private donations provides meals and shelter.....For certain people.
Abused mothers, children, adult families down on their luck....but nothing for the true homeless with all sorts of social, drugs,....and mental problems.

Did have a shelter that took everyone provide a warm place on cold nights, no beds just chairs....
One meal a day.... if someone drought it in......Most days were covered, meals in the evening.

But did provide an address (for gov checks) and phone number, showers and a laundry.

These people had drug alcohol and mental problems.....but had a "home"
Most didn't stay there...just used the facilities.
This was closed as in "not in my neighborhood"

These people were not allowed to be close to "children'...so were not allowed at the subsidized shelter. ...which you need a bus to get there.

Many of these hard core ..do not want help...and would rather be left alone ......
You can not force folks to "get help".....

This is a big problem....but also speaks to politics and laws......... with charity being having a peacker order.
Name of the game is ...the warm fuzzies shelters... but ...shelter and care being discriminated against

 

Perhaps the best solution was the old solution..., roundem up and herd them all back into institutions where they can be properly cared for.

 

I wonder just how many would use churches for help but for the price.

We were really in need of a baby sitter at one point when I was sent to the day shift for a while. Tell Kare that church down on the corner of there and was there has a day care sign out front with daily rates.
Our daughter was 12 then and the son 9, good kids would rather read a book than watch TV and were pretty open minded to things people said.

How ever after just one week there we pulled the kids out and I took a vacation so I could care for them and search for a more suitable sitter.

Our kids resented the brain washing that those church people were doing for at least 4 hours per day while they were there.

We do not pray at every meal or every snack, we do not have time set aside to pray nor tell bible stories.

I can see why the home less do not want to be around those folks too.
I would rather sleep in a hog stye than listen to all that stuff and beholden to them

Al

 

Alot of shelters and programs are run by churches or religious based charity. And yes like you said, some. would rather not follow their rules ( which are based on their religioius beliefs)

 

• By most indicators, the US is one of the world’s wealthiest countries. It spends more on national defense than China, Saudi Arabia, Russia, the United Kingdom, India, France and Japan combined.
• US healthcare expenditures per capita are double the OECD average and much higher than in all other countries. But there are many fewer doctors and hospital beds per person than the OECD average.
• US infant mortality rates in 2013 were the highest in the developed world.
• Americans can expect to live shorter and sicker lives, compared to people living in any other rich democracy, and the “health gap” between the US and its peer countries continues to grow.
• US inequality levels are far higher than those in most European countries
• Neglected tropical diseases, including Zika, are increasingly common in the USA. It has been estimated that 12 million Americans live with a neglected parasitic infection. A 2017 report documents the prevalence of hookworm in Lowndes County, Alabama.
• The US has the highest prevalence of obesity in the developed world.
• In terms of access to water and sanitation the US ranks 36th in the world.
• America has the highest incarceration rate in the world, ahead of Turkmenistan, El Salvador, Cuba, Thailand and the Russian Federation. Its rate is nearly five times the OECD average.
• The youth poverty rate in the United States is the highest across the OECD with one quarter of youth living in poverty compared to less than 14% across the OECD.
• The Stanford Center on Inequality and Poverty ranks the most well-off countries in terms of labor markets, poverty, safety net, wealth inequality, and economic mobility. The US comes in last of the top 10 most well-off countries, and 18th amongst the top 21.
• In the OECD the US ranks 35th out of 37 in terms of poverty and inequality.
• According to the World Income Inequality Database, the US has the highest Gini rate (measuring inequality) of all Western Countries
• The Stanford Center on Poverty and Inequality characterizes the US as “a clear and constant outlier in the child poverty league”. US child poverty rates are the highest amongst the six richest countries – Canada, the United Kingdom, Ireland, Sweden and Norway.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...uardian.com/world/2017/dec/15/extreme-poverty-america-un-special-monitor-report

Some conclusions from the UN report.

In case anyone is interested in the whole report

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=22533&LangID=E

Hard not to think the richest country the world has ever known couldn’t do better.

 

• By most indicators, the US is one of the world’s wealthiest countries. It spends more on national defense than China, Saudi Arabia, Russia, the United Kingdom, India, France and Japan combined.
• US healthcare expenditures per capita are double the OECD average and much higher than in all other countries. But there are many fewer doctors and hospital beds per person than the OECD average.
• US infant mortality rates in 2013 were the highest in the developed world.
• Americans can expect to live shorter and sicker lives, compared to people living in any other rich democracy, and the “health gap” between the US and its peer countries continues to grow.
• US inequality levels are far higher than those in most European countries
• Neglected tropical diseases, including Zika, are increasingly common in the USA. It has been estimated that 12 million Americans live with a neglected parasitic infection. A 2017 report documents the prevalence of hookworm in Lowndes County, Alabama.
• The US has the highest prevalence of obesity in the developed world.
• In terms of access to water and sanitation the US ranks 36th in the world.
• America has the highest incarceration rate in the world, ahead of Turkmenistan, El Salvador, Cuba, Thailand and the Russian Federation. Its rate is nearly five times the OECD average.
• The youth poverty rate in the United States is the highest across the OECD with one quarter of youth living in poverty compared to less than 14% across the OECD.
• The Stanford Center on Inequality and Poverty ranks the most well-off countries in terms of labor markets, poverty, safety net, wealth inequality, and economic mobility. The US comes in last of the top 10 most well-off countries, and 18th amongst the top 21.
• In the OECD the US ranks 35th out of 37 in terms of poverty and inequality.
• According to the World Income Inequality Database, the US has the highest Gini rate (measuring inequality) of all Western Countries
• The Stanford Center on Poverty and Inequality characterizes the US as “a clear and constant outlier in the child poverty league”. US child poverty rates are the highest amongst the six richest countries – Canada, the United Kingdom, Ireland, Sweden and Norway.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...uardian.com/world/2017/dec/15/extreme-poverty-america-un-special-monitor-report

Some conclusions from the UN report.

In case anyone is interested in the whole report

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=22533&LangID=E


I got this far in the thread and wondered why so many are trying to get to our country. Seems like we should be fleeing to Mexico or Zimbabwe or Ukraine. What am I missing?
Hard not to think the richest country the world has ever known couldn’t do better.

 

The correct terminology is " Danger to self or others". There does not have to have a crime involved.
Then a 72 hour hold for psychiatric evaluation by a psychiatrist. Not a psychologist or ....

Yes, street living escalated when they emptied mental institutions. Today, with liberalism and the protection of the individual, things have gone to the absurd. People with mental issues have the same "rights" as those who have clear reasoning. In "doing good" in general, the public has decided it's better to have food kitchens, feed children 3 meals a day, etc, etc. without a thought to long range unintended consequences - perpetrating the issue by supporting those behaviors. . We cannot forget those few who are of sound mind who choose that lifestyle.
I am not talking about the people who are temporarily homeless due to job loss, etc. There are supports available for those who wish. Many overcrowded and underfunded, but they are there.
All one has to do is go to third world countries and see living conditions there to understand the poorest of the poor in America has it a thousand times better than those in other parts of the world.

An interesting topic at this time of the year when "giving to those 'less fortunate' " is at an all time high.

 

An interesting aside about your last statement. I saw a report last night quoting numerous charities worried about the effect the new tax code will have on giving. The assumption being that the increased standard deduction will decrease the number of people who itemize things like charitable giving leading to a decrease in such giving.

 

Mental illness can inflict anyone, at any societal level, at any age, at any time, may the odds be ever in you (collective) and your family's favor. I wonder how some will handle being a "deadbeat" or having a "deadbeat" child or parent with dementia or schizophrenia?

I don't understand the complete lack of compassion in some people.

 

I don't understand the complete lack of compassion in some people.

One can be totally compassionate but still realize it's beyond their control.
I do my part by not being one of the homeless mentally ill.
I am mentally ill at home.
If everyone did that there would be no problem.

 

Tough Love is not not being compassionate.

Sometimes you have to put the responsibility where it belongs. Mmoetc posted along list of transgressions belonging to the US. Many are misplaced. As an example, Children's care belongs with their parents - not the US. Feeding a child 3 or 2 meals a day is not helping the problem. It is perpetrating the idea that parents can depend upon others to care for their children, relieving them of the responsibility. This is only one example.
The whole mental health, health and school system needs revamping. Morals and work ethics need to be taught in schools - parents can't/won't today. (Not those here or this discussion wouldn't be occurring)

What's that old adage, "Feed a person a fish and you feed him for today. Teach him to fish and you feed him for life". That is not only about food but about all things a person needs to be a functioning adult. The US is sadly remiss in this.

 

I can guarantee rounding up the mentally deficient homeless would only be a drop in the bucket. Less than 10% probably. I have an intimate knowledge of" skid row". Most homeless are abusers or people who want to be left alone. The rest are mentally impaired or people of grid running from the law. But the latter falls under wants to be left alone.

You can't just take an abuser off the street, clean them up and expect they will not go back to it. They have to really want to get clean. There is a homeless shelter in town and had been for decades. They just got donations to expand. If you go there you still have to be clean while you are there. They will help you find a job and feed you. Out by 8am and in by 6pm. No exceptions. You break the rules you are out for a whole month. It works because people have to realize there are consequences to every action. They weed out the mental ones and get them help. Yes we still have homeless people but not as many as other places. They have helped thousands if not more.

There are solutions but it has to be a give and take. We also need to realize there are just some people that can't be helped no matter what we do.

 

I can guarantee rounding up the mentally deficient homeless would only be a drop in the bucket. Less than 10% probably. I have an intimate knowledge of" skid row". Most homeless are abusers or people who want to be left alone. The rest are mentally impaired or people of grid running from the law. But the latter falls under wants to be left alone.

You can't just take an abuser off the street, clean them up and expect they will not go back to it. They have to really want to get clean. There is a homeless shelter in town and had been for decades. They just got donations to expand. If you go there you still have to be clean while you are there. They will help you find a job and feed you. Out by 8am and in by 6pm. No exceptions. You break the rules you are out for a whole month. It works because people have to realize there are consequences to every action. They weed out the mental ones and get them help. Yes we still have homeless people but not as many as other places. They have helped thousands if not more.

There are solutions but it has to be a give and take. We also need to realize there are just some people that can't be helped no matter what we do.

By mentally deficient do you mean those whose intelligence is less than normal, or those with mental illness? I agree that many homeless (not mentally ill and homeless) do not want help and know where to find if they do, it's those that don't have the capacity due to a mental illness that need treatment, and after stabilization continued treatment to stay as well as they can be. The stats for severely mentally ill homeless is currently estimated to be 20-25%.

Did you read the article? What did you think of it?

 

Inequality Is Rising Across the Globe — and Skyrocketing in the U.S.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...intelligencer/2017/12/inequality-is-rising-globally-and-soaring-in-the-u-s.html

Playing the "mental Illness and Laziness card" Is utterly pathetic. Talk about dragging out Stereotyped Blaming and slapping a label on millions of people ! Many of those who were "borderline" middle class have dropped to below that level and have a company pull a layoff or shift itself offshore these people can become poor overnight as they are maxed out on credit, living pay check to pay check just scratching by and one hit can turn their worlds upside down... everyone knows someone who's taken that hit at some point... If you don't, you either don't get out enough or your blind and can't see or hear it.

Bigger concern should be as inequality continues and more people are shoved down, there will be a nasty feedback loop and that appears to be more & more likely as things continue and that will not result in "good times for all". Maybe that is the point of some, create a situation that demands troops on the street and absolute control by the state for "National Security" but will US Troops fire on civilians trying to get jobs, food, shelter and a safe place to raise their families, not likely. AI Bots don't care, maybe another reason why AI and military applications thereof is so high on the priority list... Many civie's in the states are armed, some better armed than the military even and that worries the Establishment a great deal, if civil conflict hits the states, it is going to be one giant fugly mess like none have seen in a very very long time.

 

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...intelligencer/2017/12/inequality-is-rising-globally-and-soaring-in-the-u-s.html
Pretty liberal mag and extreme conclusion posted....

 

That Mag only picked it up, they did not write it nor it's conclusions.

Go for a walk through South Side Chicago, Lower East St-Louis or any number of other areas with a depressed economy, high unemployment and low end...

BTW PEOPLE: There are Home-Steaders / Cabineer's on HERE because they made a choice for independence from external sources, others are here because it is the only way they can feed themselves & their families by subsistence and they are fortunate enough to have a little piece of ground to do so. Are they "Mentally Challenged or Lazy" and gaming the system ? DOES ANYONE REALIZE HOW OFFENSIVE these statements are to MANY your fellow "Homesteaders" who are not in the Wealthy Classes ? Likely 50% or more of the folks here, on this forum would be considered on the borderline of poverty.

I'm not Rich but I'm not dirt poor, just a notch above dirt poor. My military disability peanut pension is a FARCE and would not cover rent in a city let alone afford me food as well etc... Smart enough to buy a good (small) piece of top land, build a small efficient homestead and generate my own power needs, Next Spring the greenhouse and final stages are done and that's all benefitting me & mine. I made the best choice for me and mine... NOT everyone has those options or are fortunate enough to be able to do so.

FYI: Look at this and think.
See richest, poorest U.S. cities and counties based on new Census data
Posted September 20, 2017 at 07:00 AM | Updated September 20, 2017 at 11:47 AM
http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/09/see_richest_poorest_us_cities.html

Don't parrot Bafflegab, use your own Critical Thinking and consider what is in front of you, down the street and across town / state / country.

 

As the number of poor grows and the wealth of the few expands and those few hold sway over the lawmakers, we return to the historical, worldwide norm of a huge class of very poor and a select few in control. A country with a big middle class is an anomaly.

 

The Catholic Church did not become one of the worlds wealthiest organizations by giving to the poor.
As I travel along Woodward Avenue, it is mostly burned out buildings, overgrown parking lots, Liquor Stores and Churches. Google Earth can show you.

 

Ok we lived in the South was going to go to work was told I was a Fool, this is the Poor South go on Welfare.

The city next to us has tried many things with Homeless and Pan Handlers. Gather them up, throw them in Jail disrupt them. Destroy their Camps and latest give them work. City found they were just peeing in the wind, these people did not want to change.

I've seen here So Called Homeless live in the woods here during the Summer, have the River provide for them and if they needed money just cook some Meth.

My Granddaughters Mom lives in a dump with a guy on parole. She will work just enough to get Welfare off her and get Tax Refund off our Granddaughter. They have been doing many Illegal things but the Law isn't wanting to lock him in Prison and not wanting to separate our Granddaughter from her Mom. Things are just too PC.

The article is very one sided, yes there is many Homeless but had a Man call me the other day, he was Homeless but he can't get a Job because he is on Drugs and in turn don't have the money to pay Rent. Plus I wouldn't rent him a place because when he left it would cost a bunch getting the place back up to where it would be rentable again.

big rockpile

 

Seems like there is a clear path to poverty and an equally clear path away from it.

 

View attachment 63730
Seems like there is a clear path to poverty and an equally clear path away from it.

Where is Saint Lewis Mo ?
I don’t think I would trust the conclusion anymore than the spelling

 

Las Vegas eliminated their homeless or poor with bus tickets. They'd put you on a bus and send you anywhere you wanted to go. Cheaper than feeding, jail or court costs. Don't know if they still do that. But it worked.
The homeless I knew traveled with the seasons.

 

This has been a common ploy with a number of localities, but at the end of the day foisting one's local problem onto some other locality is not a solution, merely a redistribution of the problem.

 

What a load of crap.

With all the government poverty programs and all the charities in US, there is NO way 1 in 8 people is in poverty regardless of what the Census Bureau said.

 

Which?

 

I'm generally a helpful guy. I grew up with an understanding that it wouldn't take much to slide into a spiral of poverty. I fought against that. I was unaware of safety nets and took every situation that I could to turn a buck
I have many times crossed paths with people down on their luck. No skills, no job, no friends or family. It seemed that if I'd be generous, ease the burden, create an opportunity for them. In most of these cases it wasn't a rough patch they were going through. They had adopted a lifestyle of finding sympathetic people, like me, and draining as much as they could before moving on. They had burned all their family, betrayed all their friends and were gliding through life on the generosity and labors of others. "Work is for fools." could be their motto.
I've seen people that just can't keep a job. Always something that doesn't suit them. Then there is always an excuse to not go to work. "My toe hurts", "I thought I was having a panic attack", " My car's battery is dead and it'll take a week to get another battery." They see their job in a more casual way. Then, of course, they get fired.
If I don't want to struggle to earn money to spend it on a room with a bed, who are you to set me up with a job that enables me to have shelter? Don't put your living styles on me. Like taking Native Americans and getting them out of their traditional garb and dressing them to look like us. Why do you get to decide I must get an education?

 

Interesting....half the folks think here think they are bums with addiction issues.
I used to think that way...that is, get off your behind and get to work. I guess getting old has made me soft. I say give them a monthly stipend...enough so they are not robbing someone. Simple economics and good karma. Sure, many will milk it, and they do...so what. I don't have to sleep with a bad conscience. And as far as taxes go, welfare is a drop in the bucket.
It does worry me that many folks are having to visit food banks to make ends meet...or that our millennials are couch surfing, or living in RVs/tents. Even when I was young, plugging away at a min pay job, at least I could afford a rental and a car. Then I got lucky and got a union paying job to put me through school...fat chance of that happening now. Heck, near the end of school I was living well...lol
Now they are saddled with huge student debt loads that will never leave them...no wonder we have an ever increasing divide between have nots and haves.

 

Interesting....half the folks think here think they are bums with addiction issues.
I used to think that way...that is, get off your behind and get to work. I guess getting old has made me soft. I say give them a monthly stipend...enough so they are not robbing someone. Simple economics and good karma. Sure, many will milk it, and they do...so what. I don't have to sleep with a bad conscience. And as far as taxes go, welfare is a drop in the bucket.
It does worry me that many folks are having to visit food banks to make ends meet...or that our millennials are couch surfing, or living in RVs/tents. Even when I was young, plugging away at a min pay job, at least I could afford a rental and a car. Then I got lucky and got a union paying job to put me through school...fat chance of that happening now. Heck, near the end of school I was living well...lol
Now they are saddled with huge student debt loads that will never leave them...no wonder we have an ever increasing divide between have nots and haves.

You have raised several good points. I would suggest that a good adjustment to one's perspective is to stop and consider how close one may be to homelessness himself or herself in the event of something going seriously wrong in their lives, like losing that good job that is not readily replaceable, leading to no or greatly reduced income, being struck with a personal tragedy which inhibits effective functioning, like losing a spouse, for example, and not recovering within the three to five days that most employers afford. When I was in school, I had a history/psychology teacher (I don't remember which class was the platform for raising the subject) explain that the average American was, if I remember correctly, 3 paychecks from homelessness.

 

I have a friend that has spent the past 40 years jumping from job to job, town to town, looking for the next opportunity. She drove truck for awhile, numerous factories, cleaning motels. But she was also an alcoholic and often depended on the sympathy of others to get her through. That life has taken its toll on her health. Finally, she got off the booze. She lived a few years in a run down camper in an old empty barn, in exchange for help with chores and dog sitting. Now she is drawing a small social security check. She lives in a motor home, financed through her daughter. She was in Michigan for the summer, parking for free at friend's driveway and now parked in the AZ desert, for free. But she's one major repair away from homelessness.

I see churches and communities with food give away. Cars line up to get food. Every situation is different, but if you can drive your $40,000 vehicle to pick up free food, are you needy or just spending your grocery money on ipads, cable tv and hair salons?

 

It is very true that people often do much to manufacture their own misfortunes, and dealing with it at a personal level can be difficult. It is also nearly impossible to prevent abuses like selling SNAP benefits for, say 50¢ on the dollar for cash unless you keep the recipients in a controlled environment even though it is illegal and supposedly extremely difficult to use this money for anything but food.

I will also grant you that protecting the stupid from themselves is generally a fool's errand.

The problem for me is that of how one can accept allowing people to suffer unnecessarily, allowing children to suffer even if the root cause is the grocery money going up mom's nose rather than into the refrigerator, or just general inability to manage one's own affairs in a reasonably effective manner. Then you have to deal with the implications of those who truly are in circumstances that simply are not conducive to making it on their own. We have evolved as a society in a way that does not encourage and often penalizes people from surviving as they could manage generally by way of government interference. For me, the moment of revelation was several years ago when the police shut down a little girl's lemonade stand (!) because it was a business operating in violation of local ordinances.

At a personal level, I find this a more complex issue than most others, especially given that my brand of Christian belief overlaps with charity, albeit often applied in different ways than the traditional secular liberal approach. In one example a few years back, there was a family which had a number of self-manufactured issues in addition to unfortunate circumstances. Among other problems, they couldn't afford heating oil and from what I gather the township trustee was getting pretty tired of them for reasons I can speculate but not know. Someone else gave them a wood stove. I bought them a chainsaw. Problem solved. I like this type of solution better than simply throwing money, but I do have a problem with doing absolutely nothing as much as I have a problem with acting blindly at the expense of others. The problem I see with my approach is that for most people the 'puppies and kittens' effect sets in where people's voluntary personal charity is often guided by cuteness and the warm fuzzy feeling rather than assessment of need. On one hand, I can understand people being more sympathetic with children than with adults they see as having done much to create their own misfortune. On the other, the actual purpose cannot be achieved by helping only those who make you say "awww".

 

Out at our "Place" down the road a ways, lived a guy, with a donkey, goat and dog.....in a blue school bus in the river bottom.
Don't know what the deal was...but he didn't own the land,... but some say he was squatting, some say his family let him live there...and supported him to keep him out of the way.....Not sure.

Was a "different kinda guy' and didn't seem to be all there to a lot of people.
So did he have mental problems? Did he just couldn't deal with people? Was he not able to work?
Or just chose the life style....

His bus flooded in the rivers 100 year flood,...for a couple of years...so built a yurt on the up hill side of the road....and live there for a couple of years.

There is a lot more to this story....but when offered some of our big batch of hunting camp chilli , he declined..."I'm a vegan".

Then again ...one year was real cold and snowy....there had been no signs of life in and around his bus.....so the sheriff went looking for him.
He and his animals were gone.

He returned a couple of months later...and when asked "what happened"....He said, "I just decided to go to Hawaii....so I boarded the animals and went for a couple of months."

My guess is that he just lived that lifestyle because he wanted to...mental problems(?) but functioning.....
Would anyone suggest he be picked up for forced "Help" ?
Just some thing to keep in mind as try to impose our values and ways on those that don't want "Help"

 

Giving people something for nothing never works, give them something to do to earn their keep and then they become proud of what they have.
Free; housing, food, clothes are worth every penny the recipient paid for them.

Give people a hand up, not a hand out.

Say all you want about FDR, but he understood that programs like the WPA and the CCC gave people dignity while giving them money, and it provided public projects.