Would like to know what you wrap your soap in? When I take mine to craft fair I would like folks to see it because I'm going to put butterflies and frogs in the soap. How far in advance can I make the soap and it still keeps the smell well? Thanks brenda
thefarm
Brenda, I think a lot of M&P are wrapped with plastic wrap.
Edited to add: when selling them at your craft fairs, do be fair to real soapmakers and do not try to compare M&P bars with soap. Most likely your M&P base is NOT soap!
M&P glycerin bars are beautiful in the own right and techniques can be done with M&P that is a lot harder to do with real soap, so PLEASE, play up your positives of your creations, but PLEASE do not call them soap ....
Edited to add: when selling them at your craft fairs, do be fair to real soapmakers and do not try to compare M&P bars with soap. Most likely your M&P base is NOT soap!
M&P glycerin bars are beautiful in the own right and techniques can be done with M&P that is a lot harder to do with real soap, so PLEASE, play up your positives of your creations, but PLEASE do not call them soap ....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~MullersLaneFarm said:
Thank you for the wrap info.. If you don't call it soap what would it be? I plan to list all ingredients I just got a bunch of dyes and soap products from the company I COMPLAINED ABOUT. Any info would be great.. Ok If I decide to do goats milk soap how can I do it without lye? Thanks Brenda :shrug:
The manufacturer should be able to provide a list of ingredients for the base you are using. Most likely, it is a synthetic detergent (syndet) product. If thethefarm said:
ingredients include sodium lauryl sulfate, its a detergent based product.
If your ingredient list reads like this, you can call it 'glycerine soap'. Just don't mislead anyone into thinking you made it from scratch.
INCI Ingredients: Sodium Cocoate, Sodium Palmate, Ricinus Communis (Castor) Seed Oil, Carthamus Tinctorius (Safflower) Seed Oil, Glycerin, Water, Sorbitol, Sorbitan Oleate, Glycine Soja (Soybean) Protein, Titanium Dioxide.
You can't, unless you use goats milk melt & pour base.
http://candleandsoap.about.com/od/soapmakingbasics/ss/basicmeltpour_2.htm
This link has some info that may answer your questions on 'how to' put decorations into your soaps. Have fun, experiment, and don't push yourself to start selling until you're ready to talk with the most inquisitive customer about your ingredients.
I actually had the manager at otion (brambleberry) tell me there are a lot of people out there passing M&P for CP. I just can't see that. He was trying to tell me it's the same - but it's NOT!!!
Just out of curiousity why don't you want to use lye? It's really not as scary as most people think. Just take the proper precautions be sure you do things in the right order (add lye to water and the the lye/water mix to oils) and you will be fine. And the finished product is so much nicer!
Of course you can't get the pretty clear bars - but you can get some pretty fabulous swirls!
Bethany
www.capellasgarden.com
Just out of curiousity why don't you want to use lye? It's really not as scary as most people think. Just take the proper precautions be sure you do things in the right order (add lye to water and the the lye/water mix to oils) and you will be fine. And the finished product is so much nicer!
Of course you can't get the pretty clear bars - but you can get some pretty fabulous swirls!
Bethany
www.capellasgarden.com
Bethany,
You can get clear CP. oh my, it's been at least 5 years since I did this and I don't have the specifics in front of me so I'm going by memory.
You HP the soap, then add alcohol & cook some more, skimming the foam from the top. High percentages of tallow & lard in the recipe give the clearest soaps.
I've seen some M&P (with additives that gets rid of the 'clear-ness' of M&P) that folks have tried to pass as CP
You can get clear CP. oh my, it's been at least 5 years since I did this and I don't have the specifics in front of me so I'm going by memory.
You HP the soap, then add alcohol & cook some more, skimming the foam from the top. High percentages of tallow & lard in the recipe give the clearest soaps.
I've seen some M&P (with additives that gets rid of the 'clear-ness' of M&P) that folks have tried to pass as CP
Good to hear from you via PM Brenda.
With the exception of the lye, CP has less chemicals than MP. Once saponification happens there is no lye, there is no oils, it's just soap. And you can always make yours without fragrance (I make an OMH without fragrance that is lovely). I have not had problems with lye fumes when I mix it - only with Potassium hydroxide for LS. But I don't hover over the bowl either. I usually mix it an arms distance away.
I don't think that Cyndi means harm by her comments. She has always been very helpful on this and the other boards on HT and is a leader when it comes to teaching CP. but what she said is true. Many a MPer has given CP soap a bad name by passing MP off as CP. It is not the same. there is a reason why it is so much easier to do MP than CP. I have had many people tell me they can't handle handmade soap - makes them itch, etc. And it turns out is was MP. But there are Many who do love it so there is a place for it. Just don't try to make it what it isn't.
Bethany
With the exception of the lye, CP has less chemicals than MP. Once saponification happens there is no lye, there is no oils, it's just soap. And you can always make yours without fragrance (I make an OMH without fragrance that is lovely). I have not had problems with lye fumes when I mix it - only with Potassium hydroxide for LS. But I don't hover over the bowl either. I usually mix it an arms distance away.
I don't think that Cyndi means harm by her comments. She has always been very helpful on this and the other boards on HT and is a leader when it comes to teaching CP. but what she said is true. Many a MPer has given CP soap a bad name by passing MP off as CP. It is not the same. there is a reason why it is so much easier to do MP than CP. I have had many people tell me they can't handle handmade soap - makes them itch, etc. And it turns out is was MP. But there are Many who do love it so there is a place for it. Just don't try to make it what it isn't.
Bethany
The base you have is a synthetic detergent type. It may make a pretty product, and be fun to work with, but it has basically the same ingredients as commercial shampoos designed to remove oil from your hair, so they're not going to be especially kind to your skin. If you want to continue working with M&P, you may want to look for a base that is mostly soap. The one I listed in the earlier post came from www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com and it isn't too bad on the skin.thefarm said:
One thing I've found when selling soap at craft shows is that I can count on the occasional customer who will read the ingredient list and question me on each ingredient, and why it's in there. Really. So, for me, I wouldn't want to explain ingredients like Triethanolamine, so I would avoid products that contain that kind of thing. FYI, it's made by Dow Chemical, and used here to react with fatty acids to make soaps. It can also be used as a wetting agent in herbicides, and in photographic developer.
Food for thought...
This is a big point to be made....most of the juried shows I do now are pretty good about catching the difference.
At the Farmers market I attended most of this year there was one local who sold fresh eggs, pork products and "Homemade Natural Soap" "Made right on our farm with fresh goats milk!" Making claims to customers that there "homemade" soap contains "no lye" ....and it was all..every single bar was M&P
I must say I just grinned and let it all go even though she was selling a good bit at $4.50 a bar....I'm not one to raise a fuss but for those who asked about the other products or compared those to mine I did set them straight.
Now that also brings up the "organic meat and eggs" that person offers..... if they are deceiving people about the soap products....maybe the other stuff isn't so natural either :shrug:
M & P bars have there place, I know a lot of people enjoy them for many reasons. They're fun to make as well but it really bothers me when I here someone at a show or market saying they're homemade soap.
I've made and sold them myself along with the CP soaps but am slowly getting away from the MP's
CP = cold process. There are a couple of ways to make soap and they roughly fall into either cold process or hot process.
In the cold process method, the lye solution is mixed with room temperature oils and the heat created by saponification drives the reaction.
In the hot process method, the lye solution and oils are mixed and then cooked, either in a crock pot, oven, or on the stove, until the saponification is complete. Then the hot soap is glopped into the mold to cool off. (it's kind of jelly like, not nice and liquid)
Cold process soap comes out very smooth. Once you get used to the process it's easy to do swirls and embeds. Hot process soap has a more rustic, rough texture to it. It's ready to use as soon as it cools off and hardens up, instead of the couple weeks it takes for cold process soap to get mild. Both types of soap benefit from "curing", or being left out to air dry for several weeks before being wrapped and used.
As far as the lung problems, I have chronic asthma and use an organic fumes mask when I make soap. I used to use a respirator, but the fume mask works like a charm. Just look for one rated for paint and organic pesticides.
I don't think it's a matter of melt and pour being looked down on. Just about every soap maker I know has played around with melt and pour. I know some people who are true artists with it (I'm definitely not one of them). It's just a very different product from soap.
In the cold process method, the lye solution is mixed with room temperature oils and the heat created by saponification drives the reaction.
In the hot process method, the lye solution and oils are mixed and then cooked, either in a crock pot, oven, or on the stove, until the saponification is complete. Then the hot soap is glopped into the mold to cool off. (it's kind of jelly like, not nice and liquid)
Cold process soap comes out very smooth. Once you get used to the process it's easy to do swirls and embeds. Hot process soap has a more rustic, rough texture to it. It's ready to use as soon as it cools off and hardens up, instead of the couple weeks it takes for cold process soap to get mild. Both types of soap benefit from "curing", or being left out to air dry for several weeks before being wrapped and used.
As far as the lung problems, I have chronic asthma and use an organic fumes mask when I make soap. I used to use a respirator, but the fume mask works like a charm. Just look for one rated for paint and organic pesticides.
I don't think it's a matter of melt and pour being looked down on. Just about every soap maker I know has played around with melt and pour. I know some people who are true artists with it (I'm definitely not one of them). It's just a very different product from soap.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Jen H said:
Thank you Jen you explained alot.. I don't understand the lanuage but I will learn. I didn't want the whole homestead today know that I have a memory problem as well. There it's out for the whole world to see.. That is another reason why HB didn't want me to make CP and I didn't know there was a difference between cold and hot.. I way too much to learn.. My nitch is aprons I only wanted to make a few bars for stocking stuffers to fill the table..Thanks..Brenda
I've never used that method myself - I hot process in the oven, but primarily cold process my soap. Hopefully someone who has done that will weigh in?
With the rest of the language; saponification is the chemical reaction that turns lye and oils into soap. Embeds are the little goodies or bits of different colored soap you bury in the main soap to make fun shapes or surprises - like rubber duckies in melt and pour bars or soap balls in solid colored bars of soap. Curing is leaving the fresh new bars of soap out on a rack open to the air to dry out and get more mild. Trace is a state the soap batter goes through that looks kind of like thin pudding.
Not a single person knows everything about everything. Don't feel bad at all about asking questions. That's how all of us learn.
With the rest of the language; saponification is the chemical reaction that turns lye and oils into soap. Embeds are the little goodies or bits of different colored soap you bury in the main soap to make fun shapes or surprises - like rubber duckies in melt and pour bars or soap balls in solid colored bars of soap. Curing is leaving the fresh new bars of soap out on a rack open to the air to dry out and get more mild. Trace is a state the soap batter goes through that looks kind of like thin pudding.
Not a single person knows everything about everything. Don't feel bad at all about asking questions. That's how all of us learn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Jen H said:I've never used that method myself - I hot process in the oven, but primarily cold process my soap. Hopefully someone who has done that will weigh in?
With the rest of the language; saponification is the chemical reaction that turns lye and oils into soap. Embeds are the little goodies or bits of different colored soap you bury in the main soap to make fun shapes or surprises - like rubber duckies in melt and pour bars or soap balls in solid colored bars of soap. Curing is leaving the fresh new bars of soap out on a rack open to the air to dry out and get more mild. Trace is a state the soap batter goes through that looks kind of like thin pudding.
Not a single person knows everything about everything. Don't feel bad at all about asking questions. That's how all of us learn.
Thank you! I plan to put butterflies and frogs in.. I didn't know it was called embeds makes sense.. You been a big help..Brenda
I just noticed that Cyndi at Muller's Lane Farm has an article on hot process soap done in the crock pot on her site.
http://www.mullerslanefarm.com/cphpmilksoap.html
http://www.mullerslanefarm.com/cphpmilksoap.html
Sorry, my intent was to answer the orginal question! Sheesh, I'm easily distracted!
I buy the plastic shrink wrap they sell in Home Depot to cover windows and patio doors during the winter to wrap my soaps in. I cut the shrink wrap to size, glue it around the soaps with a glue stick. Then heat it up with a hair dryer. An easy easy way to cover my soaps. The wrap molds perfectly around the soaps. I either put the label between the soap and wrap, or I glue it to the outside of the wrap.
Gloria
I buy the plastic shrink wrap they sell in Home Depot to cover windows and patio doors during the winter to wrap my soaps in. I cut the shrink wrap to size, glue it around the soaps with a glue stick. Then heat it up with a hair dryer. An easy easy way to cover my soaps. The wrap molds perfectly around the soaps. I either put the label between the soap and wrap, or I glue it to the outside of the wrap.
Gloria
thefarm said:
Brenda, show me where I 'put down' M&P?? By stating that M&P is NOT soap is not a 'put down', just the truth. I feel it is a great injustice to soap makers when M&Per's try to pass their creations as 'soap'.
Since 1999, I've had potential customers tell me they won't buy ANY homemade soap because of experiences they've had with other homemade soap - some of these soaps they've used have been M&P, some have been poorly made CP/HP. To those folks, I give a free bar of my milk soaps - The vast majority have become steady customers.
I give lessons on soapmaking to local folks. Some soapmakers won't do that because they're afraid of competition. I figure if someone wants to make soap, they will. I'd rather they understand the process behind what makes a good soap. So far, it has not hurt my business at all
There are some very artistic things you can do with M&P that can not be done with CP/HP soap. I applaud many M&P soapers because of their beautiful creations.
I dislike the crafters that try to pass M&P as soap as much as I dislike the soapers that feel they have to criticize other soapers who, let's say, like to use lard & tallow in their soaps.
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