I would have a very hard time believing a pyrenees was bothering livestock.....I miss mine so much - he used to love sleeping IN the chicken coop for some reason, and never bothered a single chicken. One day I want another GP

 

Nogreater - that was my initial response when I first heard about this in the area (before the thing today) and I was accused of 'protecting' the culprit. I suggested Samoyed or something similar was far more probable - not because they're bad dogs but, they actually do have a prey drive. My dog lives with livestock. If she wanted to kill she'd have plenty of (daily) opportunity!

I love mine- she's made having livestock INFINITELY easier!

 

after years of repeated attacks on my livestock by the neighbors dogs, i have zero tolerance. all of my new neighbors know this, and i am very well fenced, as a priority.

i know you love your dog.

however, you neighbor just gave you your only warning. you better make sure your dog doesn't get out again, or your dog is dead. they are not going to tolerate losing any more animals, until it is proven to you that your dog did it. i doubt highly they will bother your dog as long as it stays inside your fence.

make sure he stays in.

 

I was out with my dog today and had the opportunity to figure out why the debate bothered me so much.

While we were out, a well meaning, very geographically distant neighbour kindly asked if my dog gets out much. I told him she does a bit but not lately since we've got the holes in her run figured out. And, that when she does she sticks to our family's place and one neighbours so, she's not ranging too far a field.

He commented that she is being HUNTED because she is accused of killing a whole bunch of livestock - along with some other dogs.

Interestingly, the dog in question is big and fluffy and mostly white - and very much identified as an unneutered male. Not confirmed to be a Pyr, but big and white so...

I pointed the different anatomy out to him and he warned me to keep my dog close to home because she is going to be dead if any of these people see her.

Also interestingly, no one has approached me about this and, on the night in question, we were over at a neighbour's for dinner - with the dog.

Lovely. If my dog gets out - or, as I understand, is even seen in my yard from the road, she's dead.

I love SSS. Although to be fair to the SSS people, this is really just S.

For me, this is where it doesn't work. You catch my dog in the act of killing your livestock, that's my problem and if she gets shot, I'd be devastated (and surprised, given her breed and lack of prey drive) but I could accept that. This sort of thing is just crap.

I realize that you are a country person and live in the country. And I realize that sometimes "country folk" have different ideas about their dogs. *but* I have had dogs in the past and never, not once, not ONE TIME, did any of them ever "get out". They were constantly under my control or supervision. They were in fences that they could not breech or they were on tethers that they could not get out of, or they were inside or they were on a leash.

Dogs do kill livestock, chickens and such. Maybe YOURS didn't, but somebody's might have. If everybody took care to keep their dogs under control then other peoples dogs wouldn't get shot. It's not fair to punish you or your dog because someone elses dog is bad. But if you kept your dog under control NOBODY would think it was your dog. The only reason they do is because your dog was out loose runing around.

donsgal

 

No disrespect to your dog, flannelberry-- and it's a shame that they are hunting your dog, but our neighbor has 5 pyranees that he lets run wild. He rents the property, so he actually has very little land for himself, and has no livestock, so his dogs have no "job." They make their jobs chasing cars and livestock, mine included.

I just wanted to say that there are pyranees out there that do harass livestock. I would imagine that there are more that are beneficial, though-- many other neighbors have good pyrs that work hard.

Good luck with your pup.

T

 

I had a rat terrier cross that loved to kill anything it could get ahold of. It would chew on rocks & sit by the rock pile for 3 days, trying to get to the rabbit it holed up in there. Killed 3 skunks in 4 years - it knew what was coming, but wanted to get rid of things....

I also had pet white rabbits that ran around an old abandoned pig barn, and several windows & such were missing. The dog somehow knew those rabbits were off limits, & never bothered them. One time he was chasing a rat, & gave the rabbits a heart attack about - he dove in the pig barn after the rat, yapping & worked up & all ablaze, ran around in hot persuit. Never gave the rabbits a second thought.

He had a truce worked out with our cats. Any strays tho were fair game, he treed them on sight.

Funny how dogs can work that out, what is tame & local, what is not.

Anyhow, to the SSS deal, can be unfair, but if you look at it from the other side of the fence, those folks prize their critters as much as you prize your dog. Something's gotta give, and that can turn into a linch mob. Fair or not, how it is.

--->Paul

 

Well, it's helpful that a portion of this thread has confirmed what bugged me.

First of all
"they are not going to tolerate losing any more animals, until it is proven to you that your dog did it."

IT'S NOT MY DOG. First of all - there was no question the "pyr" was an unneutered male. I have a spayed female. Further, if this is a pyr running wild, how could they tell? The hair hides the package.

Second, we were indoors the evening this happened. Not even a chance that she got out and got herself back into her run without me knowing (which has never happened - she gets out and then comes to the door to be let in). And, the attack was miles from my place (4 or so miles, I think). She's never gone that far or been gone long enough to be gone that long.

Donsgal
"And I realize that sometimes "country folk" have different ideas about their dogs. *but* I have had dogs in the past and never, not once, not ONE TIME, did any of them ever "get out"."

Did you have a pyr? There is a saying - if it's small enough for a mouse, it's large enough for a pyr. My dog gets out where my flock can't. It is a constant effort to keep improving and reimproving her run. I doubt we have different ideas about dogs - that's why I work hard to keep mine home. I suspect we would agree entirely that peoples' dogs belong on their own land.

"Maybe YOURS didn't, but somebody's might have." There's no question that there was a complete attack on their livestock. I don't deny that at all and it was horrible.

"But if you kept your dog under control NOBODY would think it was your dog. The only reason they do is because your dog was out loose runing around." It was made clear to me that it was because mine is big and white - the assumption was that is was her before it was clear that she has gotten out.

Thanks Terre - I was wondering - harass or kill? This was a horrible destruction of a lot of livestock. There is no doubt in my mind that a Pyr left to go feral will harass out of boredom, but it's unlikely that they'll kill. That's the point Nogreater was making (sorry, I'm posting for you - please correct me if I've misunderstood).

And it is extremely obnoxious to turn dogs out like that - no matter what breed.

"those folks prize their critters as much as you prize your dog. " Absolutely - and if it was my dog, she'd be put down. We had to do that with the last one when it was killing my livestock (which is why we have a pyr and we actually make an effort to keep her contained etc. -I never want to go through that again.).

I have livestock - I don't want them killed, which is, ironically why I have a pyr. I do empathize but this whole "shoot on sight" thing is freaky. Especially if she's seen in my yard. If that happened for real, there'd be police involved real quick.

I think for me it's the mentality of the whole "if it looks close to the perp, shoot."

 

Hey!
If ya want to maybe spare yourself some grief, Find out who's "hunting" your dog from the neighbor you mentioned, and pay them a friendly visit. Tell them you have a GP and would appreciate it if they'd call you before they SSS any big, fluffy white dogs. They'd probably be glad to because they wouldn't want to kill an innocent dog...that wouldn't solve the problem.

As with most things, communication is key to beneficial outcomes.

 

well, that may be how it is but if i were to catch anyone shooting at anything on my property, they have some serious problems.

 

Boleyz

Of course you're right. The people who have the livestock are away right now. I'm hoping the neighbour (who I suspect is one of the hunters) I spoke to and who seemed to realize my dog isn't *the dog* will spread the word.

When the neighbours come back I will go and visit them and invite them to meet my girl - preferably while she's in with her charges.

Thanks very much.

 

well, that may be how it is but if i were to catch anyone shooting at anything on my property, they have some serious problems.

So would I...especially since it's against the law!

 

I do empathize but this whole "shoot on sight" thing is freaky. Especially if she's seen in my yard. If that happened for real, there'd be police involved real quick.

Of course, I agree with you on that - would not be right at all.

--->Paul

 

I have had dogs of mine shot before for running deer. One of the family dogs had been accused of killing the neighbrs chickens, even though she'd been in the house with us all night long. We were very, very upset when our dogs were shot. However, in retrospect, we deserved it. Our dogs were running all over the neighborhood, and they had a range of several miles. The dogs that weren't shot by neighbors were the ones who subsequently ripped holes out of my first goat. These were Border Colie crosses, not a breed known for killing livestock.

I don't think it would be possible for them to say for certain that the dog doing the killing is an un-neutered male- certainly not enough to definitely clear your dog of possible wrongdoing. I have seen Pyrs have a surprisingly large range of territory, so 4 miles isn't out of the question.

What I would suggest is to keep your dog in and restrained or under your direct watch for a week or so, and tell the neighbors that you are going to do this. Then you can all wait and see if the white fluffy dog is spotted killing any more stock, if it is, you'll know it wasn't yours. Getting defensive and viewing them as the enemy will only make it more likely for them to shoot the dog without further ado; they'll figure that you don't care.

I know that this isn't what anyone wants to hear, but I can't think of a single time when we've shot a dog or tried to, and the owners didn't protest that the animal was innocent or "just playing" (yeah, lunging at the throat?!) or that somehow, a mistake had been made as to the identity of the animal. Nobody wants to believe that they could have a livestock killing dog........

 

if somebody shot my dog because they thought it was killing there live stock.ther would be no more livestock for them to worry about after that.

 

I kept my pups in my house or in my yard all but once in 4 years on my homestead. That when I left my terrier in my pasture she found a hole in the fence and was in the neighbor's pasture for 10 minutes because I was in his yard. He cussed me out and I apologised.

However back in town my first pup was a two time con (of the pound)- and never stopped roaming until we got our 2nd dog to keep her company.

When we first moved to our farmette, knowing the nbr had goats and not knowing our fence (as well as dogs would after a few days- they will find out any gaps) or our dogs (that is if, at 15 and 45 lbs, they'd go for goats), we went to neighbor and asked him if they were on his land even if killing goats to please, at least the first time, call us and we'd make it up to him money wise. Never had to do that but maybe he understood that we planned to do our best as dogowners. Of course we were a strong contrast to another neighbor whose multiple (serial) terriers were all over the neighborhood- luckily never got to any fowls etc- but chewed up shoes in other peoples' garages etc- until run over on the nearby highway.

fb does your dog have a JOB? Does it have to be out at night guarding your livestock? And is it really doing that job if it gets out of your fence once in a while (maybe it's chasing off an intruder, I dunno if they do that)? Would company keep it in the yard like with my dogs? Good luck in keeping her safe with this misidentification

 

all I can say is people who love thier dogs need to keep them on their own property.

 

>>>Also interestingly, no one has approached me about this and, on the night in question, we were over at a neighbour's for dinner - with the dog. >>>


>>>Second, we were indoors the evening this happened. Not even a chance that she got out and got herself back into her run without me knowing <<<

>>>Nogreater - that was my initial response when I first heard about this in the area (before the thing today) and I was accused of 'protecting' the culprit.<<<<

Now, I'm not sure I understand , so let's review...

#1..You were away with the dog, but she was in her pen and you were inside...


#2...No one has approached you about this, but you had heard about this before the thing today..

Duh, what am I missing?????

 

any solution packaged as "one size fits all" has problems fitting the particular situation. People who have lost livestock to dogs have a right to be understandably concerned about dogs running loose. It would grieve me to kill a dog but I might have to do that to keep him off of my livestock. Personally, I don't believe in sss without catching a dog in the act however and that is the main concern of flannelberry. She believes her dog is innocent of anything BUT being loose sometimes. If one shoots and kills a dog in the act of attacking their goat there would be no doubt, that dog was the culprit and to let him go might mean seeing him do it again. But to kill a dog because it looks like it might have been the one, is wrong. Around here it is loose dog season and pregnant loose dog season. Seems to me if people kept their dogs contained properly these seasons wouldn't occur, and livestock killing by stray dogs wouldn't occur, and innocent dogs that look like dogs who have killed livstock wouldn't be killed.

 

flannelberry, your next posts gave more info---I didn't understand all the facts from the first post, so don't get upset when people respond because they didn't understand.

I see from your post that you make every effort to keep your dog in her run. That is good! Also, it would be good for you to visit the livestock owners with your dog. I do agree they shouldn't be "hunting" your dog, but if they happen to shoot a dog in the act of attacking livestock, that would certainly be their right. That is what is meant by "SSS" and that shouldn't bother anyone.

slowsuki1, if someone shot your dog because they thought it was attacking their livestock, why would you shoot all their livestock? That would be illegal, and criminal. Also cruel. Just as bad as what they did to you! However, if they shot your dog in the act of killing their livestock, that would be legal, and certainly appropriate.
I guess you are just proving that the "shut up" in the SSS equation is very important.

I will certainly shoot ANY animal caught in the act of killing any of my livestock. I wouldn't hunt an animal that I only suspected though. And most people wouldn't.

WAY, WAY too many people allow their dogs to run loose. The prior owners to our house told us that their dogs came home with chickens from the farm up the hill. And they still allowed them to run loose! That is just dead wrong, IMO!

Ou Golden Retriever is allowed loose when we are with him, because he never leaves us. Our Beagle cross is NEVER allowed off her (very long) chain, because she runs and disappears.

 

I think for me it's the mentality of the whole "if it looks close to the perp, shoot."

My mentality is “If it’s not my dog and it’s on my land – shoot.” I spent a lot of money on the invisible fence to keep my dog on my land. If I wanted your dog to “visit” I would have asked you. Keep it at home.

Pete

 

However, in retrospect, we deserved it. Our dogs were running all over the neighborhood, and they had a range of several miles.

I don't think it would be possible for them to say for certain that the dog doing the killing is an un-neutered male- certainly not enough to definitely clear your dog of possible wrongdoing. I have seen Pyrs have a surprisingly large range of territory, so 4 miles isn't out of the question.

Again, this is what is worrisome about the whole SSS thing. It is possible for me to know that it wasn't my dog - she wasn't out that night, not even in her run.

The dogs were also seen at the scene and there was no question that they were unneutered males. As it was described to another neighbour by one of the witnesses who regretted not shooting then (which would have been appropriate) - there was no mistaking them.

Finally, when I say my dog gets out, she is not running all over the pplace wild on a regular basis. I mean escapes every few months - once. Usually it's right out of our place across the road. They phone, we bring her hme immediately and it's a done deal.

Just let me be very clear - there is no way this was my dog. That's not denial - if it had been last night, for example, I couldn't be that clear because she was in her run all night. But on the night in question - there is not only now way, there are witnesses that it was no way.

 

>>>Also interestingly, no one has approached me about this and, on the night in question, we were over at a neighbour's for dinner - with the dog. >>>


>>>Second, we were indoors the evening this happened. Not even a chance that she got out and got herself back into her run without me knowing <<<

>>>Nogreater - that was my initial response when I first heard about this in the area (before the thing today) and I was accused of 'protecting' the culprit.<<<<

Now, I'm not sure I understand , so let's review...

#1..You were away with the dog, but she was in her pen and you were inside...


#2...No one has approached you about this, but you had heard about this before the thing today..

Duh, what am I missing?????

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Can you clarify what you're asking? I live in a town with a handfull of people - yes, I heard about it, but no one has approached me directly, no one involved that is. I only recently found out that my dog really is considered the suspect.

When did I say that this happened when she was in her pen and I was inside? She usually in in her pen but not that night, we were out when it happened (early evening).

 

Personally, I don't believe in sss without catching a dog in the act however and that is the main concern of flannelberry.

Tango - exactly. If you catch my dog in the act - or even with your livestock - that's one thing. Other than this accusation, my dog has never been accused of anything like this. The few neighbours we do have, know her and have been asked to call us if she does get out and end up at their place because we don't want her to think that taking off is an option.

 

all I can say is that I pray NO ONE shoots a dog of mine on my own property if its not hurting a small child... punks not included! I would not likely handle that well at all- nope not at all....

 

flannelberry, your next posts gave more info---I didn't understand all the facts from the first post, so don't get upset when people respond because they didn't understand.

You're right Jill. I should have explained in my post that we make every effort to keep her contained. If she's not in her run or in the house, she's on a tether (first time I've ever had to do that with a dog). If she does get out, dh and I spend as long as it takes to find the hole and fix it.

For people who think it's no big deal to keep a dog in - you should try a pyr, they make goats look easy when it comes to fencing. Part of why some people do give up and let their pyrs roam (wrongly, imo) is because they are so hard to contain.

What I get upset about is the "too bad" attitude. If my dog is out and somewhere she shouldn't be, she is very likely to be dead now - even though I know she doesn't kill livestock. And didn't in this circumstance. As I said to the neighbour - we have had a dog like that and put him down because we don't want a livestock killing dog. If I thought she even might have done it, I'd be the first one trying to find out and putting her down or sending her back to the breeder because I'm not interested in that.