Seems absurd to spend 600 bucks to move water 6'.

 

How do you prime or work the shallow - I presume pitcher - pump when it is frozen? Wll you have warm water available to warm it up & make it work?

That's the problem I would see with a pitch pump in the great frozen outdoors. 'Here' a cold winter can mean minus 20 or worse, minus 12 for a high. Gonna be tough to get the leathers to seal even with hot water to prime it. Perhaps your version of 'cold' is different....

--->Paul

 

I have seen a picture pump for cold places that had a box built most up to the picture and filled with sawdust to keep it from freezing so hard. It makes it hard to get a full stroke with the handle but worked.

 

I’m not sure what you consider a deep pump.

If you want a hand pump that you can go out and get water anytime, then it needs to have the cylinder under water. It will need to drain back down to the cylinder, to keep from freezing up.
You can get water from one of those cheap hand pumps, but you’ll need to prime it every time you use it. As long as the water slips past the bottom leather, you can use it in the winter. Just take a pan of hot water to prime it in the winter.

You can put a one-way spring loaded check valve just below the pitch pump for summer use. Pumps harder, but will hold the prime for a long time, saving you from priming the pump every time. Just get it out of there before winter sets in.

 

I am thinking of building a wellhouse large enough to put in a wood stove add a secound room and turn it into a sauna / bath house I'd have to work our the drainiage away from the well.

Would that be cheaper and increase the function/useage of the well house than some fancy pump.

Temps can get to 40 below for shout bouts but not to strange for it stay in the minue 30 for 2 or 3 weeks.

 

Your all confirming what I thought.

I may just try to build one out of pvc and if it doesn't work out I'll bite the bullet.

 

http://www.thefoodguys.com/handpump.htm

Might not pump alot of water but it is easy to build.

WWW

 

Seems absurd to spend 600 bucks to move water 6'.

How much water do you need in the winter?

One could easily build a battery/solar powered 12v setup for around $100-200 if you water requirements aren't too high.

 

How much water do you need in the winter?

One could easily build a battery/solar powered 12v setup for around $100-200 if you water requirements aren't too high.

It's 10/20 gallons a day.


I'm thinking of modifying the inverted "T" type. You use two one way valves with a solid plunger. Then I will have two pipes coming out of the well. One for the pump handle and one for the water flow. The flow pipe will have a small drain hole to make it "freeze proof".

Like seen in this video. Built stronger but you get the idea from this.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-10UKzKolY&feature=related[/ame]



I was thinking of making the "pump" section 1 1/2" pipe with a 3/4" pipe for the outlet. This should let the force required to move the water be about five pounds. This should be easily doable. I was also thinking of using galvanised pipe for above ground with plastic in the well it's self. Maybe l could use plastic pipe for the whole thing. I was also thinking I could use the chimney cleaning type rods for the pump rod. I have to think about the design a bit.

 

The small pitcher pumps will lift water a max of about 25 ft above the water level so you should be fine with one of them, no need for a deep well pump. This is assuming that you put the pump somewhere close to the well, and not on the third floor of your house or something like that. The last one I bought new was about 30 bucks.

 

I use my pitcher pump all winter. I leave the handle open in the winter then I just have to put in a a little water each time to reprime it. I do have insulation from the ground to the pump. I believe mine was about $35 and is about 18-20 foot deep.

 

Yea, I lived with an outdoor pitcher pump on top of a well point when I lived in UP. Got to minus 30. No problem. Water doesnt stay in the pump long once you stop pumping so nothing to freeze. Bottom flapper leather that acts as a check valve isnt that efficient. You stop pumping, within very short time any water in cylinder drains back down into well. Once in a while if there was enough moisture in cylinder for leathers to freeze to wall you just took propane torch and go around outside of pump couple times. Just enough to melt the bit of moisture, dont have to get it red hot or anything.

 

I made it out of pvc pipe. I "tried it out" in the tub. It shot water to the ceiling.

I will post some photos in a bit.

 

Here is what I did.

I used 1 1/2" pipe as the pump throat. In side I put a 3/4" pipe as the connecting rod. Onto the 3/4" pipe I put a 3/4 to 1" fitting. Over this I put two rings I made out of a 1" coupling. With just a bit of sanding they fit tight but not too tight to slide. This is the "pusher". It still needs a 3/4" pipe cap to seal.

On the bottom I put a T and two one way valves. The inflow is just connected the outflow is connected to the 3/4" water pipe that leads to the surface.

I made a handel and well top with a 3" pipe and 3/4". What I did is use a 3/4" pipe fitting into a 1 1/2" pipe fitting, into the 3" pipe. In side you see the 1 1/2" fitting for the down pipe. I will be putting 3" pipe on the bottom too. So it will help support the whole pump.

]

I used a dremel to carve the pipes a bit (I had to remove some of the shoulders inside the fittings so the pipe could slide in places and so it could run through in spots. I also drilled the "rain" cap to keep out surface water. Then I put a toilet flange to attach it to the well pad.

Took me about 2 hours with about 1 hour "working". When I get it setup I will do a video of it pumping. It will do .8 gallons on a full stroke. But I figure that in practise it will do about .5 gallons per push.

l

Total cost was about 70 bucks. Not too bad for a frost free hand pump that needs no priming.

 

You can simply drill a hole in the suction pipe (which should be 1-1/4")below the water line in your well with the Pitcher Pump on top. When you prime it, the pump can't get air because you drilled the hole below the water line. When you stop pumping, the water will slowly weap out of the hole in the pipe and prevent a freeze up. Pitcher pumps are famous for losing their prime quickly, so the pump won't have time to freeze.

 

Success. It pumps about 1 quart per push. So it's about 20 strokes to fill a five gallon pail. Whats really nice is it's easy enough to push that you can do it with just your fingers.

 

How does the tube that goes down in the well connect to the larger tube (pump?) in the photo? I'm almost getting this, but the pump(?) part has me confused. It seems that the up stroke on the handle draws water through the first one way valve, and up the center tube, then the down stroke pushes the water out the right hand side one way valve, since its the only path the water can take. Does the pump draw add push the air, which moves the water, or is the thing primed with water? Sorry for the confusion, I'm mechanically challenged!

 

How does the tube that goes down in the well connect to the larger tube (pump?) in the photo? I'm almost getting this, but the pump(?) part has me confused. It seems that the up stroke on the handle draws water through the first one way valve, and up the center tube, then the down stroke pushes the water out the right hand side one way valve, since its the only path the water can take. Does the pump draw add push the air, which moves the water, or is the thing primed with water? Sorry for the confusion, I'm mechanically challenged!

The 3" pipe is just for stability and strength. The "pump" is made up of the 1 1/2" pipe and the 3/4" pipe. The 1 1/2" pipe is the pump body and goes top to bottom, the 3/4" is the pusher, it goes from the top to just short of the bottom inside the 1 1/2" pipe. Your only moving the 3/4" pipe to make the water flow. Your exactly right. The water comes in one way and out the other (it doesn't need to be terribly efficient to work well). The pump is "primed" with water (the pump sits about 10 ft under the water surface in this installation. I'm also sure the water flows above the plunger to the water level). When you move the plunger your moving water from the intake to the 1 1/2" pump pipe then up the 3/4" water line to the surface(this is a separate line from the pusher.). No air or air pressure is involved.

 

A standard pitcher pump will lift water from about 22 feet and no more, so if the water gets drawn down to 22 feet below the pump, you'll have to wait or it to recharge.
Pitcher pumps are set up such when the handle is lifted all the way, it opens the foot valve on the bottom, allowing the water to drain instantly. I used one in a greenhouse for years and never had a problem. It was about 100 feet from the well, drawing water through black plastic ABS water pipe buried in the ground. Doing that made it such that the pump would not be able to draw after about 18 feet of head. I kept a bucket and a pitcher under the pump, and always left water in the bucket for priming. It was really easy. I also put a gate valve in line in the plastic ABS below the pump. In non freezing months, I'd close it after each use, so I didn't have to prime it.
If you get a deep well pump, you will still need to have a way to let the water drop back down the pipe, so one of those won't fix the problem.
From what it sounds like with your water depth, you can put a standard pitcher pump on and not worry about a thing so long as you let the water drop out on icy cold nights.

 

Yea, I lived with an outdoor pitcher pump on top of a well point when I lived in UP. Got to minus 30. No problem. Water doesnt stay in the pump long once you stop pumping so nothing to freeze. Bottom flapper leather that acts as a check valve isnt that efficient. You stop pumping, within very short time any water in cylinder drains back down into well. Once in a while if there was enough moisture in cylinder for leathers to freeze to wall you just took propane torch and go around outside of pump couple times. Just enough to melt the bit of moisture, dont have to get it red hot or anything.

Besides the leathers freezing to inside of the pump, my experience has been that the waterlogged leathers in an outdoor pitcher pump freeze rock solid and are useless in providing a seal until they are warmed up to the point where they become pliable again.

 

Your all confirming what I thought.

I may just try to build one out of pvc and if it doesn't work out I'll bite the bullet.

Thanks for the pics Stan, neat work. I need to study you're 'fit a little more, but must work as it works!

--->Paul

 

Besides the leathers freezing to inside of the pump, my experience has been that the waterlogged leathers in an outdoor pitcher pump freeze rock solid and are useless in providing a seal until they are warmed up to the point where they become pliable again.

I was too cheap to buy flapper leather, made one from inner tube, it worked fine and didnt freeze solid. The water to prime the pump always made cup leather warm enough. I had no problems. Course standing out in below zero weather filling jugs with water, not so fun.

 

Thanks for the pics Stan, neat work. I need to study you're 'fit a little more, but must work as it works!

--->Paul

If you go down to the S&P forum. I made a few drawings and they are posted.
Plus a few variations to the design.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=389878