I bought into the RO idea a few years back. BAD idea. There have to be pre-filters and post filters and you never know for sure if the membrane has maintained integrity. Costs just kept mounting and I eventually disconnected the thing.

I would like to suggest as an alternative that you use a Berkey type of system, but you would have to make ice by hand, since it is a low pressure system, and you might not like having to fill the thing regularly.

I've been mulling over ideas on how to make a whole house Berkey for the two of us, but it would involve tanks, pumps, and some costs. I think I could put one together for less than a grand, maybe much less with recycled parts.

 

First do you really need an RO system?

The big differences in them are design. Different membranes are best for chlorinated or non chlorinated water, chlorine will destroy some type of membranes. Unfortunately some sellers will simply put a small carbon filter in front of the membrane, which if not replaced often will allow chlorine through and destroy the membrane.

Surface area of membrane, more is better. Membrane housing, good units have housings which can be opened to replace the membrane and the capillary tube that waste water flows out from that can and will plug up.

And if you want the best, you'll get an reverse osmosis with a high pressure pump. It will have a small high pressure electric pump that will put the pressure going into the membrane at much higher pressure. This not only makes a lot more water, but also cleaner water.

And they should all be back flushed regularly or the membranes will fail prematurely.

I haven't been in the business for a while, So I couldn't recommend a specific brand or model today. Just what I would be looking for if I was to buy one for myself.

Reverse osmosis systems are great, if you maintain them, and they do need regular maintenance. I would likely look for a small commercial system, maybe look for models designed for use on sailboats or such. Many of the models you'll buy from hardware stores and water softener dealers and such are just junk.

As for testing membrane integrity, a simple TDS meter will do that.

 

I would like to suggest as an alternative that you use a Berkey type of system, but you would have to make ice by hand, since it is a low pressure system, and you might not like having to fill the thing regularly.

I have a Big Berkey, but the water is undrinkable. We have well water that we run through a softener because our water is so hard. According to what I've found online, you're not supposed to run softened water through a Berkey because it'll wear out the elements faster. So we fill the Berkey from the spigot on the front of the house (the only not softened water we have.) There are so many minerals in our water that it tastes really bad.

I can use Berkey water for cooking, making coffee and tea, etc. Anything that flavors the water. But we can't bear to drink it straight.

 

Txrider,

We are on well water, so it's non-chlorinated. My husband wants a filter because there's a landfill a few miles away, so he worries about the water quality.

I'll ask him to check into commercial RO systems. The systems from Home Depot vary widely in price. We currently have a "Water Factory" system (I think that's what he said it was. He's in a meeting now so I can't verify.) The replacement filters on it are super expensive and other RO systems are cheap in comparison, but he can't find anything telling why Water Factory systems are so great that they should cost so much more.

 

In your situation, I would be considering a catchment/cistern system, then running THAT water through the Berkey for potable water. In dry times, I'd buy water if needed. I can certainly understand your use of a RO system though. The Berkey isn't a good method of handling water with lots of dissolved minerals.

 

Unless you have nitrate issues, the RO is not a good idea. And if you must use it for nitrates, you should add minerals back to the water. Drinking distilled water like that will pull all the minerals from your body.

 

"Drinking distilled water like that will pull all the minerals from your body"

That is only partly true. I drink distilled as it helps dissolve kidney stones - (more accurately it may minimize the excess calcium in regular water, so the stones don't grow) . It doesn't "pull" minerals out of the body itself, however even if it did, a good multimineral supplement will overcome it. FWIW, what with our foods coming from foreign countries and depleted fields, a multimineral dose from time to time is a good idea anyway for most folks.

 

Txrider,

We are on well water, so it's non-chlorinated. My husband wants a filter because there's a landfill a few miles away, so he worries about the water quality.

I'll ask him to check into commercial RO systems. The systems from Home Depot vary widely in price. We currently have a "Water Factory" system (I think that's what he said it was. He's in a meeting now so I can't verify.) The replacement filters on it are super expensive and other RO systems are cheap in comparison, but he can't find anything telling why Water Factory systems are so great that they should cost so much more.

That's good so a good TFC membrane should last if it is back washed and maintained. Avoid a unit with a CTA type membrane.

You should have a sediment filter, possibly a carbon filter, then the membrane, then a finishing carbon filter and storage tank with a line coming up to the faucet.

The filters should be stock sized and cheap, the membrane should be name brand membrane film like filmtec or something. Some makers use proprietary filters and housings, so you can only buy the filter from them, and charge more for it some of them much more, for a filter not as good as standard sized cartridges.

The membrane requires a constant water flow across it to produce water, it will produce a small waste stream usually through a capillary tube that is located in the waste water outlet of the membrane, That little tube or flow control clogging up is the #1 failure point. And it is good to remove it and do a high flow flush of water through the membrane now and then for a few minutes, then put it back in and make sure it's not plugged. With really hard or high iron water that capillary flow control can plug up pretty quickly.

Some units provide a bypass valve to make that flushing easier but it's rare. But if no water is flowing out of the waste line the membrane will plug and the unit will quit making water. They also usually slow down production and water quality if not backwashed by removing the capillary and flushing, and doing so can greatly extend the life and efficiency of the membrane.

The next failure point is usually the storage tank, it has a rubber bladder in it that has to have the proper air charge, and the bladders fail in time requiring a new tank if the bladder is not replaceable, as well any time the system is opened on the tank side of the membrane you need to sanitize the tank with a little clorox or such. You don't want any bacteria on the tank side of the system.

A system with a good quality membrane, standard sized filter housing so you can use decent brand filters, should do you just fine. You can also tie the waste water system into a catchment system for watering plants and such if you like, usually a few gallons go out the waste tube for every gallon of filtered water produced.

You also should have a TDS meter to check a comparison with RO water vs unfiltered to see how well it is performing.

I did a quick google and these folks look decent, though prices may be a little high... I can't really vouch for them though, the membranes on the residential systems seem a bit small but they seem decent quality and they offer a small pump boosted system.

http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/products.htm

A pump boosted system always seemed to perform significantly better in my experience as far as less dissolved solids as well as more gallons produced.. One with a flush valve is convenient for maintenance, but a handy person could easily get a little ball valve at the hardware store and make a flush valve to bypass the capillary or flow restrictor..

I googled "water factory RO", and if what came up is what you have, it is one of the proprietary non standard filter and membrane cartridge units I would not recommend. With a standard system you can get parts from anywhere.

 

Unless you have nitrate issues, the RO is not a good idea. And if you must use it for nitrates, you should add minerals back to the water. Drinking distilled water like that will pull all the minerals from your body.

And you might not get gallstones or kidney stones...

We get minerals primarily from food, that plants have taken up, not from water.

Distilled water is simply water that has evaporated and condensed and been collected.... all the minerals and such are left behind when water evaporates... Both in nature and in a distiller...

That happens continuously in nature and we call it "rain". So is catching and drinking pure rainwater bad for you? Rain water is natural distilled water.

 

Ladies, I am just telling you what my Naturopath says. Distilled water consumption (longterm not just a couple of days) will pull the minerals from your body. It is not good for you. Take it or leave it. We spend thousands of dollars a year going to an Alternative Physician. I'm taking his advice because he is one of best, and teaches others at universities on Nutrition and naturopathy.

Some links on the subject--
[ame]http://www.google.com/search?q=distilled+water+pulls+minerals+from+body&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a[/ame]

 

I just wanted to add, if you have high nitrates in your water then you must distill it, and add the minerals back to it.

 

Ladies, I am just telling you what my Naturopath says. Distilled water consumption (longterm not just a couple of days) will pull the minerals from your body. It is not good for you. Take it or leave it. We spend thousands of dollars a year going to an Alternative Physician. I'm taking his advice because he is one of best, and teaches others at universities on Nutrition and naturopathy.

Some links on the subject--
http://www.google.com/search?q=dist...rom+body&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

It's a fairly moot point anyway. Reverse osmosis water is not distilled water.

Typically distilled water has about zero total dissolved solids, no minerals whatsoever, reverse osmosis water still contains some trace minerals, measurable with a TDS meter.

As for health, if your well has very high levels of sodium, or high levels of calcium or other solids, it can be far worse for you than distilled or RO water.

 

Red Tartan, we have a Watts system from Costco. It works really well for us. We are on (hard) well water with lots of iron and sulfur smell. The RO is for drinking and tea making (and canning) since cooking with the well water is OK here. It is clean tasting, not plasticy and re-fills quickly. DH says he changes the 1 filter 2x a year, the other filter gets changed 1x a year and the membrane about every two years. He orders the filters & membrane on-line. It is just the two of us, but DH drinks about a gallon of tea a day and drink that much water as well and it makes the ice maker ice too.

 

mekasmom, aside from Weil's comments on the subject, I am living proof that your naturopath is incorrect, but whatever. My secondary point was that the food we eat now comes from depleted soils. Spinach cannot MAKE iron. No plant can MAKE minerals. They have to take them from the soil. If the soil doesn't have them, the food that is the plant doesn't have them. For it to be any other way, the plants would have to be nuclear reactors. This is basic earth science and agriculture. Seriously, you would be well served to find a more educated naturopath. The laws of physics are not to be flaunted.

 

Red Tartan, we have a Watts system from Costco. It works really well for us. We are on (hard) well water with lots of iron and sulfur smell. The RO is for drinking and tea making (and canning) since cooking with the well water is OK here. It is clean tasting, not plasticy and re-fills quickly. DH says he changes the 1 filter 2x a year, the other filter gets changed 1x a year and the membrane about every two years. He orders the filters & membrane on-line. It is just the two of us, but DH drinks about a gallon of tea a day and drink that much water as well and it makes the ice maker ice too.

That sounds about right, and they look like decent enough systems. I might get a little more life out of a membrane flushing it periodically.

Their "zero waste" system looks interesting... Looks like it might work but I'd have to make a few modifications if I was to buy one. It's a normal boost pump, but they are feeding the waste into the hot water tap..

BTW if you have a submersible well pump sulfur smell is pretty easy to get rid of on a lot of wells just by using a galvanized steel tank and an air control valve system instead of a bladder tank.

 

We also have a Watts system from Costco. It works very well and we love it.