It's really important that they get colostrum within the first 12 hours of life. We just lost a lamb this week because we waited too long, and I would definitely intervene now in the beginning to make sure they get what they need.
Did he not see them nurse at all then?
Because she's a first timer, too, you might need to be bringing the babies to the teat and actually showing them the process.
Without your husband there tomorrow, are you able to go to the barn or wherever they are located?

Don't feel bad about not noticing pregnancy signs in your goat. We missed one too a few years ago, and lost the baby as a result. At the time, I had many goat farmers tell me that even an experienced and knowledgable goat person can miss the pregnancy signs in a goat.
Keep us posted.
jodi

 

Don't feel bad about missing the signs! They can be tricky lil gals sometimes.

Are you sure they didn't already suck? It makes me wonder if they were dried off and Mom was relaxing, although you did mention they were crying. I would definitely try to get some colostrum into them ASAP. Your hubby may have to take matters into his own hands and force Mama to stand still and guide babies on. It may take some convincing. Or if worst comes to worst, get some colostrum from a dairy (cow will work if you don't have access to goat) and bottle feed them. Good luck!

 

I never go to bed until my new babies have had that first drink. Your husband may need to strip the plugs out of the teats before the kids can get any milk out. He may need to place the teat in their mouths and squirt a tiny bit into their mouth. Or rub on their rear end to stimulate the sucking reflex. The bottom line is those babies need that first meal for the energy to stay warm and get through the night. If they don't get it, and if they're still alive in the morning, you're going to have some really serious nursing to do on some very weak kids. It's just much easier and safer to take the time to make sure they get their first meal, whatever it takes.

 

Somehow you NEED to get these kids food. They NEED the colostrum. If you have to bottle feed it to these kids or tube it into them they need it. Don't feel bad about you not noticing. I have one gal who I know is bred but BOY does she have a tiny figure still! And she is due in 22 days LOL....she sure doesn't look like she is preggers but she is . They are tricky buggers! Good luck!

MotherClucker

 

Hubby got up at 4 this morning and went and feed for me and checked them....mom not with them, they hadnt MOVED from where they were last night! So hubby brought them in....Will have him go get some colostrum, since he couldnt catch mom! I finished washing them up and made a quick formula up to get something in their bellies....between the 2 they drank down almost 8 oz....

Their definately premie...dont weigh 3 or 4 pounds! After they warm up and feel better will check out more..mouths and jaws seem odd! Very weak sucking reflex on one, and just now trying to stand a little....if mom wont let us milk her, I have lamb milk replacer but have heard varying results with that...and advice? Think I might be able to buy some goat milk from a lady but not for sure....Will make a playpen in living room for now till they get some strength, and eating fairly well....

Now to figure out what to feed, how often, etc...lambs I guess much different! shakes head....Thanks for the replies...will update later today!

 

When we run into a deal like yours where the mom doesn't let them nurse we catch up the mom and hold her. It takes two people to do this but if your alone I've actually tied the mom up so I could work with the kids. Most of the time this happens in first time moms and once you get the moms to finding out what the back end is for she will let the kids nurse. It helps if the kids are hungry they seem to catch on quicker. If we find kids that haven't nursed yet we quick milk the mom into a baby bottle and quickly feed the kids. Once we get a little colostrum in there tummies then is when we start to work with the mom and kids. It helps if you have a seperate pen you can put the mom and kids in they seem to bond better. Usually a few times of helping the kids nurse does the trick and the mom should stand still enough for the kids to nurse. But keep a close eye on the mom and kids if mom doesn't pay any attention to them in the first 12 hours you may just have bottle babies on your hands.

 

I just had the same problem last Friday. Young doe (14months) and a first timer. First problem was a breech birth, only one leg and head, which we had to assist and pull. Then she went off with the rest of the girls to eat like nothing had happened. We left her alone for about an hour to see if she would go back but she never did. So, had to go to plan B. I have several small stalls in the goat shed (4' by 8') so I put the kid in and literally had to drag the doe into the stall. At first she seemed frightened of the baby but after a few minutes started to show some interest in her. When the baby tried to nurse she actually scared the moma and she would jump to get away from her. After a few minutes she calmed down but due to the fact that she has a small bag and her teats are rather high the baby was unable to nurse. So I tried to put her on the nipple and still had no luck. I ended up putting some milk on my fingers and placeing them in the baby's mouth which really got her interested then again tried to put the nipple in her mouth and walla success ! Moma and baby are now doing great and she is turning into a great moma. I guess a little assistance goes a long way.

PT

 

Both little GIRLS are WAy stronger! The one I felt was doing better when they first came in, her nose and jaw are real tiny! She has trouble taking nipple in without help....the weakest one (I thought) just attacks the bottle! Not much help needed!

I put up my playpen...actually 4'L by 1 & 1/2" W, put tarp, then newspapers, the towels sheets, etc...and they both up and on feet, trying to do tiny hops, messing with one another...just a major turn around from 4:30 this morning!

Heard their mom calling, went and watched her look for them but she wouldnt go up where they shoulda been...called then went right back to eating...
If I can get a part of the pen outside fit up proper for mom and at least one baby will try to put back together....

I'm cautious about the one with the odd mouth...shakes head....we will see.....

Oh! And both sections of plumbing working just fine!
grins will double check again next feeding to be sure of gender....

Feeling much better emotionally, but wiped out physically...grandma needs some sleep! :help: hahahaha

 

Just a note: I would stay far away from milk replacer. If you can't get enough milk from Mom, buy whole cow's milk at the store. Kids seem to do well on that, and replacer frequently causes all kinds of problems.

Also, they need colostrum inside the first 24 hours, 12 hours is much better. After 24 hours, you can feed it to them all day long, but they won't take in the antibodies so you're wasting your time. Has the doe bagged up at all yet? I'd tie her up if necessary and milk out some colostrum so you can feed colostrum from your own farm. That will give the kids antibodies against what's on your farm.

As far as the tiny mouth, I'd just give her a little time and see how she does.

 

We use lamb milk replacer with our lambs, but whole (****) milk with our goats.
Lamb milk is way creamier and fatter than they need.
jodi

 

Its great that they are eating but they need colustrum. If they don't get it they will seem to be doing fine then next thing you know they are dead. Is there anyone near by to help you out. Even cow colustrum would help. Powdered from TSC would even be better than none.

Patty

 

Hubby brought home some "Kid milk replacer with colostrum" so, as of the 3rd feeding on up till now been getting that......BUT......

Seems to disagree with them! Got runs, tummy cramps, not wanting to take their bottle as well as they were.....

So, how long should I continue with this milk replacer till safe to go back to the instant milk formua they were liking so well?

(Oh! And momma has no noticable bag! Plus has gotten worse.....never really like people touching her, but last couple of months way worse) but have other momma's due anytime now...could I snitch some of their extra for these babies? All moms have had same vaccines, worming regime, etc...just curious...

But for now, all is doing well. Will try to reunite (hopefully) this weekend....
If mom does take them back should I continue to bottle feed a little extra till sure mom's finally giving plenty? Thanks, Kim

 

I've heard of people milking other does to get milk for abandoned kids. That might be a way to get some colostrum.

Good luck!

 

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stop feeding the milk replacer. i had a doe who died from it. it is much safer to go with whole milk. i hope they do well for you! good luck!

 

I finally gave up fighting them....they HATED the milk replacer, so finally got it weaned back over to the instant milk formula...now last 2 feedings? Actually wanted the bottle! Still a bit weak from those feeding (They accepted almost none!) so soon should be up bouncing around again on their wobbly legs!

Now, the question is if their stools dont change back with the other stuff gone...how is best to treat diarhea? (I mean mainly water! Bubbly, little bit yellow!) I have noticed the tummy cramps have eased...but also dont want them getting dehydrated either! Have been told can use pepto-bismol but not any idea of amount....

Oh! These are combo of alpine and nubian......(For milkers)
(Mom is half alpine/nubian...dad is FB nubian) Thats why nose is odd! got teensie snippet...nose of that roman shape to their head! Almost like a pug!

Well, better get another load of laundry going for dry bedding.....
Said when you find yourself hoping for solid poop! :shrug:

 

I've raised many kids on milk replacer without problems the key to this is buy the expensive lamb or goat milk replacer. The milk replacer you have sounds to be pertty good . Try mixing it with cows milk once and gradually work them into just the milk replacer. We have had babies get diarhea usually in the first few days on milk replacer. We give them 1cc of Pepto Bismol and that usually clears things right up. We also give Pepto Bismol to older does if they get diarhea about 5-6 cc's.
With the babies keep them drinking no matter what don't want them getting dehydrated. Good Luck and hope everything turns out good for you.

 

Well, yesterday, they were going great guns! My weakest one was finally getting hasng of finding and locking onto the nipple....
shakes head..."SHE" was only one that got up crying for another bottle at about midnight...she ate..hmmm...maybe 2 oz? Put her back in pen and still would her her cry every now and then to see if any was up ya know?

When I got up to feed this morning at 7 she is just a limp still form....every now and then a small cry....wrapped her up and put nipple in her mouth and stroked her throat everyting...warm rag...noting seems to effect her. Her head when I triy to sit her on my lap just lols to one side....nothing, but still breathing!

Dont think this one is going to make it...will go try a little more, but.....

Frustrating!

 

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I am so sorry she is not doing well. How are they tonight?
Dawn

 

well, lost little one yesterday morning...I tried squirting it in her mouth, kept working with her, wrapped up, keeping her warm, finally she passed.....

The other one is doing great! Sleeps all night, got the squirts back to less water and some color not just water.......We went and got a fence around a small open door shed, so hope to try her in there and hopefully mom also....

I dont think mom will taker her back now, been so long...but if she will just lay with her and , lick her..I can do the feeding....She is up to about 6oz now a meal! about 4 time a day and occasionally an extra oz right before bed...

Im just worried now about temp. change...I have her in front of big window in living room (low enough to floor she can lay her head on windowsill..I'M cold sitting there!) So, will put lots of bedding in building, but tree that woulda run the electric cord for heat lamp fell during ice storm....hmm....afraid goat coat would tangle her up.......

Well, still got 3 more momma's to birth, hopefully soon she will have at least one's that she can cuddle with...got fingers crossed momma's receptive.....

 

i am so sorry you lost the little one i know what you are going through and it can get very frustrating. but thankfully that other little doe is doing well! i hope all your other babies will be strong and healthy and their mommas will accept them! keep your chin up! and good luck

 

May I ask what exactly is in the "instant milk formula" you're feeding these kids? And may I also ask why, after people have told you again and again to feed whole cow's milk, you're still trying to get these kids to live on "formula"? How about following some of the advice you've asked for before you lose the other kid? :nono:

And if you put that little girl outside in the cold with diarrhea that looks like colored water, with no supplemental heat, and no mother or sibling to cuddle up with, just some cold blankets, please do not cry to us when you find her dead. Instead, why don't you try to be a little compassionate and keep her in the house where it's warm until her poop looks normal and she has some resources with which to handle the cold.

 

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How are they today? Please be careful if you move her in with any adult goats, even the mom. If she does not recognize the kid as her own, I am not sure she will lay with it and lick it. They do that with their kids but in my experience seem to think that other kids are just anoying and can hurt them. If you have been feeding the baby from the start, she will look to you for that nutrition and will think you are "momma" not the goat.

I am bottle feeding a buck kid that will be our herd sire in the fall. He is on whole cow's milk from the grocery store. He is happy, healthy and growing well on it.

Hope all goes well.

Dawn