What does the neighbor in between think of this idea?

 

Better check with the US Army Corp of Engineers or your Local Natural Resources District...

A guy near my folks' farm had to put everything back when he tried to redirect a creek running through his place...even trees he bulldozed down in the process.

Better safe than sorry - - -

 

To make a long story short....

No, you cannot redirect a creek.

Jena

 

Far as I know, in NC, you can't effect
the flow to anothers property. Just that
part on your own land.
What you describe cuts water off to
anothers place. Not a good idee!

 

I would definitely get ahold of a lawyer or DEP, EPA, etc. My bro-in-law is an natural resources attorney who deals with this sort of work a lot and there are tons of laws/regulations regarding moving water around.

 

What the heck, in true independent living style, I say redirect the creek as you see fit.

I would. See if the neighbor complains and deal with it when he or she does. It's always easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission.

Pete

 

Why would you want to redirect the creek? Do you just want to cut the water off to the person that it is on now? That is not a friendly way to settle your dispute. You can get to the creek in two places so what is the problem? If you were my neighbor and changed the creek you would probably lose your place and anything that you ever earned from then on. Can it be done Yes. Can it be done legal NO. If you are determined to become an outlaw then go ahead.

 

Boy is HAT ever convoluted thinking in this day in age. Geesh

 

The re-direction of the portion of the creek that begins on my land would not take away the creek from property owner #2. It would simply diminish the flow. They have one spring that flows into their part of the creek plus over flow from a small pond. The flow from my end of the creek would diminish their flow by only about 1/6th. They have their own water and do not need mine.

The purpose of re-directing the flow from my side would be to gain "head" in order to channel the water into a 2000 gallon holding tank, then the over flow would continue its path in the creek. As the property lines are now, I do not have the "head" needed in order to have the "drop" into the larger tank. When we tried to dig down (to create the drop needed to the tank) we reached bedrock and I do not want to blast it out.

The #3 neighbor is willing to have the re-directed creek flow into a new place along her side of the creek. Property owner #2 would not be willing to do anything at all.....hence the need to attempt to re-direct the flow.....if it were legal to do so.

We are simply brain-storming ideas..... and re-direction of the creek was one idea.

 

Why not pump the water from near the spring fed source to the 2000 gal. tank? Wouldn't that be cheaper and easier than trying to dig a creek bed? You might get away with that.

 

When I read this along with your earlier thread on connecting the second tank, I have to conclude that you bought the wrong sized tank. It seems to me that the easiest solution by far would be to swap your new tank for a shorter one that "matches" your original tank. No fuss, no muss, no lawsuits over water rights...

 

The Paw: No, this is not the same creek nor the same set of tanks. We have a 2nd system (actually there are 3 water systems) of springs, tanks and pumps and it is that system I asked about in another thread. That system does not produce enough water and we need to be able to make good use of the water in the 2nd creek....the creek we were thinking about re-directing.

Another option, as mentioned above by 65284, is to find a way to dam up the water from the spring head.......but it is too little water. That spring water joins overflow from yet another neighbor (who also plans to dam up his creek, re-direct a portion to tanks, etc.).......but then his overflow from his tanks would just go back into the creek on my side......as would the eventual overflow from my tanks.....it is hard to explain.

Thank you for ideas and suggestions. We will just keep thinking it over.

 

After a survey of our property lines, we have discovered the creek we thought to be fully on our land actually goes leaves our property and travels along the edge of neighbors land.... fully on their land for about 500 feet. The creek then comes back on our land for a short while, then leaves it again to a 3rd guys land.

Since it starts out on our property, and the "spring head" for the feeder water is on our land, can we re-direct it by digging a new creek bed, then sending it back to the 3rd guys' land? There are three sources of water that make up the creek and all three are on our land. There is then a fourth source, from the 2nd property owners land, that enters it near where we would re-direct it.

It is a small creek, some would say tiny. The distance that would be re-directed is about 700 feet. Is that legal to do?

Legal is what you can get away with.

Such redirection of a stream flow still is likely in violation of something which 'they' (the writers of the rules, including but not limited to the county Environmental Health Department, Building Inspecter, the state Division of Water Quality, Wildlife Resources Commission, Environmental Management Commision and the federal Corps of Engineers, FEMA and HUD who all attempt to exert control over private waters in one way or another) may or may not find out about and may or may not care even if they find out. It would be best to petition the relevant agencies and find out. The rules are written on a 'one size fits all cases' basis and if a reasonable plan is submitted to them, they may well allow a variance of the rules to fit that particular case.

I deal with these folks often and have seen them really come down hard on violators who failed to ask first.

(35 miles NE)

 

Legal is what you can get away with.

Hardly! Legal is what is allowed UNDER the law and no way what you can simply get by with.

The more I read these forums the more disappointed I am in my fellow homesteaders.

 

What the heck, in true independent living style, I say redirect the creek as you see fit.

I would. See if the neighbor complains and deal with it when he or she does. It's always easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission.

Pete

Paying for forgiveness can be far more expensive than paying for permission, though. And some things can't or won't be forgiven.

 

i knew where you were going with this right off the bat...you need the head. i would venture a guess that in general, you cannot disturb a stone in that creek...without an expensive study to examine the potential impact and costly permits. (sad i know)

i saw a news story where some man in pa designed and built a hydropower system for his house. he ran a genset and was making more juice than he needed. he used the system for many years, but because he diverted a signifigant portion of a managed trout stream, he drew attention and was eventually forced to shut it down. you can only divert so much, even legally. i think your diversion of 1/6 sounds like it would be reasonable, but how much would it cost to do it legally? if you choose to do it under the radar, perhaps a better approach would be to pipe the water where you need it to go. digging a new creek seems to be an idea that would draw lots of attention. you can see that stuff from orbit. eventually someone will notice.

 

Think I'd be in leg-irons and strapped to a block wall if I tried that in my state. It is illegal to mess with a natural stream. You would need reams of paperwork to do what you want.

Now, if your county doesn't bother enforcing such laws, nor your state, you might get by with it for a while.

But, natural streams are not owned by you or me......

--->Paul

 

If all you need is a head and it can be had by diverting the creek just pipe the water to where you had a head . It would not disturb the creek and still get the head you need. IF you had a low place to pipe the water to then go for it but if you only wanted to dam it up and get a head that way the only thing I could suggest is that some big rocks just washed into it and made the dam naturally. You don't know where the concrete came from just make sure the rocks are the only thing showing.

 

Don't do it.:viking:

 

not where i live, just cross the creek with a tractor and wagon, the DEC would be all over the place, testing the fish, the crayfish, the water for miles, anything to justify their job.

 

The classic IT depends most likley applies. How large a "creek" you talking about? Is it a creek, stream, drainage ditch? If a spring is feeding it and the spring is on your property, I am not sure the "creek" part will matter. DO you have the right to cap a spring? divert a spring? use it?

Local legal knowledge is your only real true answer

 

Hardly! Legal is what is allowed UNDER the law and no way what you can simply get by with.

The more I read these forums the more disappointed I am in my fellow homesteaders.

I agree! I think it is a good thing to do environmental impact studies and check what will happen if you mess with a stream. I think it is good to hold people accountable for the changes they make to the enviroment. Trying to skirt the law is ridiculous. Your impact may seem low to you but it may not be in the grand scheme of things. And what about the next person who wants to do "x-y-z" to the area? I am disappointed with some of the responses here. The OP was asking a legitimate question; not one to be answered with "just do it and hope you get away with it".

Back to the OP...find out what is legal. It varies by state and even locality. Do this the right way please.

 

I don't think you can, in fact where I live I can't even clear a tree out of the water after it has fallen for fear of disturbing the ecosystem in the water.

 

Thank you everyone for the tips and advice. It is good to have input from others to think about as we think this one over. Thank you.

 

In Wyoming or any other state that I know of, NO. It would be a good way for your nieghbor to end up owning your place.