Right now I have half my flock leghorns and half my flock Rhode Island red and Golden Comets. I am in Michigan... My dual purpose girls are just slightly better layers than the leghorns. My dual purpose girls also have more than twice as thick of eggs whereas my leghorns break their eggs on more of a regular basis. But the leghorns are twice as old too (will be 3 this spring) so i dont know if that has anything to do with it. I will forever have half leghorns and half dual purpose girls because it seems to be the best of two worlds for me in Michigan. the big girls will be more sluggish in the heat of summer whereas the leghorns are sluggish now (though im still doing about 90% egg production)

 

Well, everything is a trade off. For meat we always do the cornishX because with good management you simply can't beat the speed of growth. Leghorns have always been too flighty and simply not worth it for us, even as strictly layers. So yes, we love the dual purpose breeds! RI Reds, Buff Orpingtons, etc, they all do well for us. They're around for 2-3 years and then become stew.

 

I feel the same way because nothing beats the cornish crosses for fast growth and tender meat. So what if they have no personalities - they're for meat and not pets.

I have to disagree with you on the leghorns though.....there are other breeds that lay as well as them but are friendlier -for example the australorps lay just as well and are one of the most laid back friendly breeds (and mine lay pink eggs...lol) Ameraucanas are also great layers and do very well in our cold winters. We rarely see the temperatures above freezing for at least 4 whole months, freezing at night for 9 months.

 

Not to be contentious, but I'm not sure I'd agree with the statement that "so many are praising the dual purpose chicken". I've been a reader for quite a while now, and from what I've seen, most here willingly admit that there is simply no beating a Cross Rock for conversion rate. The breed doesn't appeal to everyone however, particularly if you prefer your birds to range a bit.

 

Maybe it is like the old apples and oranges comparison. How can either fruit be wrong? I like both apples and oranges , but for different reasons and uses.
Right now, I prefer breeds that reproduce naturally, grow with some foraging and I am willing to have a smaller bird, I just roast a couple at a time. Right now it is a better fit for our place, especially with the other farm animals and family obligations. In the past, when I had a shorter , uninterrupted time frame, Cornish X worked fine with a winter laying flock , in my original and smaller coop, of Red Sex Links.
When I do a search and read older posts, there seems to be a cycle of production breed comments then dual breed comments.

 

Of course the specialized birds will always outperform the dual-purpose breeds. This is not news. It's been well known for decades now.

And if you're always going to buy in your birds then it's best to go with the specialized breeds. Let someone else keep the massive breeding flocks that are necessary to make the selections and the crosses from.

But if you want to hatch your own then you're back to the dual-purpose breeds. Or maybe the Leghorns and the dual-purpose breeds.

With careful selection over a period of years it's entirely possible to get back to birds that will lay 200-250 eggs per year and reach market size in about fourteen weeks. Just like they used to do back in the nineteen fifties and earlier when those were the commercial birds of their day. And with proper management they'll lay across the winter too.

But you're not going to get a 300+ eggs a year bird that butchers out to a sizable carcass. If you want those stick with the specialized hybrids. For what it's worth even most commercial Leghorns are strain hybrids now.

 

Not to be contentious, but I'm not sure I'd agree with the statement that "so many are praising the dual purpose chicken". I've been a reader for quite a while now, and from what I've seen, most here willingly admit that there is simply no beating a Cross Rock for conversion rate. The breed doesn't appeal to everyone however, particularly if you prefer your birds to range a bit.

I meant publicly not here on this website. I just read an article on Mother Earth News (sometime this year) praising dual purpose. I really haven't spent much time on here, especially the poultry board, which is why I asked if there were others. The Chickens magazine praises them, and I have also seen other online articles.

I've tried all the breeds that people have mentioned here. None can touch the leghorn, in my opinion and experience, with regards to laying eggs. The only exception (again in my experience) was an accidental cross between the white leghorn and buff orphington. This cross laid a large brown egg everyday and was only slightly heavier than standard white leghorn. I prefer to raise my own birds which is why I quit buying cornish cross. However, I'm not willing to spend that much on feed for that long a period of time. Feed continues to rise in price and that just makes it all the worse. I AM going to try rabbits, because apparently they taste as good or better than chicken and are 4-5 lbs at 12 weeks (the first 6 weeks of that they drink mother's milk).

I also prefer the pure white leghorn, because it has the best feed conversion ratio. You may not get quite as many eggs as some of the hybrids, but your going to feed those hybrids more. My biggest flaw with leghorns was they tend to get egg bound when they first start laying, mainly because they don't seem to start with the small egg that gets slowly larger. They start with that large egg. They are also flighty, but that doesn't bother me. I have enough pets running around

Anyway, I'm glad I'm not the only one that likes the cornish cross for meat. At one time on this board the cornish cross was disliked by many. Its good to see that changing.

 

Oh if I had to pick a second breed for laying it would be Buff Orphington (though they tend to be seasonal layers). I had one batch that laid two eggs each, everyday in the peak of laying. But probably better than the Buffs for all year laying would be the Americaunas.

 

If it's taking you 8-9 months to get a sizable carcass from your "dual purpose" birds you don't have a dual purpose bird. It's that simple. And yes, I'd be frustrated with DP, too if I was in that position.

I don't think dual purpose birds are what you're really frustrated with though. You're frustrated because what you have doesn't perform the way you want it to. And I think a lot of people end up in that same boat simply because, today, a real dual purpose flock is hard to find. Most people don't even know what a real DP is. That is evidenced even right here in this thread. People seem to think there are meat birds and there are DP birds. They completely fail to realize there are also egg laying strains, specialized for egg laying just as much as meat birds are specialized to produce meat and these are not an adequate choice for dual purpose production. Most people also don't seem to have any understanding that most sources of stock that would have once been rightfully considered a dual purpose breed no longer is an example of one because they haven't been selected to keep those traits alive.

Like A.T. said, you can select a DP flock with a little work and have a nice one, just like they used to.

But you've got to be able to call a spade a spade if that's what you want to do. Cornish X and leghorns are not the only two breeds that are excluded from being viable DP birds. There are many, many others.

 

Well put Olive Hill. I'm interested in a few tips to keep the right birds for propagation. Our criteria is a bit broad, but we're mostly interested in keeping a meat flock. Not as worried about grow-out length (at this point). So...do you keep the heaviest male/female of the bunch then? I'd hate to think I'm culling the birds I should be keeping.

 

If it's taking you 8-9 months to get a sizable carcass from your "dual purpose" birds you don't have a dual purpose bird. It's that simple. And yes, I'd be frustrated with DP, too if I was in that position.

I don't think dual purpose birds are what you're really frustrated with though. You're frustrated because what you have doesn't perform the way you want it to. And I think a lot of people end up in that same boat simply because, today, a real dual purpose flock is hard to find. Most people don't even know what a real DP is. That is evidenced even right here in this thread. People seem to think there are meat birds and there are DP birds. They completely fail to realize there are also egg laying strains, specialized for egg laying just as much as meat birds are specialized to produce meat and these are not an adequate choice for dual purpose production. Most people also don't seem to have any understanding that most sources of stock that would have once been rightfully considered a dual purpose breed no longer is an example of one because they haven't been selected to keep those traits alive.

Like A.T. said, you can select a DP flock with a little work and have a nice one, just like they used to.

But you've got to be able to call a spade a spade if that's what you want to do. Cornish X and leghorns are not the only two breeds that are excluded from being viable DP birds. There are many, many others.

I think you missed my point completely I have tried over 30+ breed of chickens and been unable to find a dual purpose breed. The strain I have now are the best of all I've ever raised, but still fall way under expectations. I'm saying there is no dual purpose breed. If you want a meat bird, you have to lose the egg-a-day laying aspect and spend a lot on feed. If you want an efficient egg layer, you lose the meat. I'm frustrated with the idea that there is a dual purpose breed out there. Its the ever elusive "white whale", and I'm no Ahab. I've given up and placed my order for cornish/rocks and white leghorns. I will keep a few of the ones I have now, just because they are phenomenal sitters and mothers and lay well in the summer.

 

Sure. If you want efficient farming and money has to be counted, then you get specialized livestock. (which applies to all species and not just chickens)

There is absolutely no reason that you can't keep 2 different breeds of chicken for 2 different purposes.

Dual purpose breeds have their purpose, too. They are nice for homesteads. They are attractive looking birds and can be easy to deal with. Also, some people like to hatch their own chicks, so want heritage breeds.

Whatever you want your livestock to do, the livestock should be selected so it meets your purpose.

 

I barely bother with dual purpose breeds for meat. The only reason I do, is because when you raise them you inevitably end up with spare roosters around.

Mainly I raise the 'dual purpose' birds to sell as chicks/layers/hatching eggs for other people - and as a hobby and to sell eggs. I love my dual purpose breeds - I just don't use them exclusively for meat. When we butcher our dual purpose roosters, we just breast them out and take the thighs, as well as liver/gizzards. Not worth scalding the 'skinny chickens' as we call it.

BUT, we do try to select for fast growing because the dual purpose breeds should be useable for both meat and eggs if desired. I always keep the biggest roosters, as long as they are otherwise nice. I don't show, but I want them to represent their breed adequately if they're going to be breders.

I don't see why raising cornishes is such a hassle to people. I raise dual purpose chicks every year - cornishes just grow bigger, faster, have better conversion and can be put outside earlier (depending on outside temps). I go in, dump food in their dishes and fill waterers, and leave 'em alone. They don't really need any more work - and maybe less - than the rest of my chickens.

I just got white leghorns this last year (we've had brown leghorns for longer now) and OH MY GOODNESS are they LAYERS. Ours are even supposedly an exhibition strain and they're laying up a storm. Most of my 'dual purpose' hens except for some young productive RIR hens seem to have stopped laying, but I'm fairly certain that all of my WL's started laying and have kept laying - since just a couple months ago - and their eggs are already rivaling our 2-3 year old hen egg size!

 

I think you missed my point completely I have tried over 30+ breed of chickens and been unable to find a dual purpose breed. The strain I have now are the best of all I've ever raised, but still fall way under expectations. I'm saying there is no dual purpose breed. If you want a meat bird, you have to lose the egg-a-day laying aspect and spend a lot on feed. If you want an efficient egg layer, you lose the meat. I'm frustrated with the idea that there is a dual purpose breed out there. Its the ever elusive "white whale", and I'm no Ahab. I've given up and placed my order for cornish/rocks and white leghorns. I will keep a few of the ones I have now, just because they are phenomenal sitters and mothers and lay well in the summer.

I think you're missing what Olivehill and I were trying to communicate. There are dual-purpose breeds, but if you want them at their best you're going to have to select for the qualities that a true dual-purpose bird has. You're unlikely to get it from a general purpose hatchery or a show bird breeder. Neither really selects for what the original dual-purpose breeds were supposed to be. But they can be brought back to what those birds of fifty and sixty years ago used to be.

Further, if you're expecting to get Cornish-X AND Leghorn performance from a dual-purpose breed then you have misunderstood what the original dual-purpose birds could do even at their best. NOTHING is going to match the growth performance of a four-way terminal hybrid Cornish-X. There is literally decades of highly specialized inbreeding of a number of breeder lines to produce those birds. Presuming you can keep a cock and a hen alive long enough to reproduce they won't breed true like a dual-purpose can. Nor are you going to get the "egg a day" a Leghorn or a well-bred brown-egg sex-link can do when properly managed. They have high-speed low-drag body types of all high production layers which is not going to yield a good meaty carcass. You're trying to compare an ordinary pickup truck with a Maserati and a five-ton delivery truck. The pickup does a little of everything while the other two are very specialized.

 

Anyway, anyone else feel the same? I feel very alone with this, when so many are praising the "dual purpose chicken".

I think most responders missed this. I thought that OP was saying they don't feel that there are any decent DP purebreds that fit the definition--great layers and great meat birds. So far I agree. Prove us wrong, please.

 

I've only had chickens for 3 years and have only had dual purpose. Have RIR and Buff Orps. Mine lay year round. Since we only have them for our family, we get more eggs than we can use and I end up either selling them to friends or giving them to neighbors because they lay more than we can eat year round. They actually lay enough for us to earn enough to buy their feed, so they are self supportive. Since it's the first time raising chickens I'm not sure about the other breeds. I know the ones we've butchered usually butcher out at the 5 pound mark, which is fine for us.

 

If it were possible to get a great layer AND meat bird in the same package the Cornish crosses and the highly bred egg layers would never have needed to be developed. The dual-purpose is a compromise and as with all compromises you are giving up a little of one thing to get some of something else.

If you want Cornish cross and Leghorn performance then get Cornish crosses and Leghorns because you cannot get them both in the same bird. It's a misunderstanding to believe that anyone ever did.

 

the thing about haveing your own home flock is you can have both, you can have your egg laying hens that produce alot of eggs and when bred to the right rooster will produce more egg laying hens,AND you can have your bigger hens that if bred to the right rooster will produce larger faster growing chicks, you can even manage this in the same coop if you dont want to have two coops, just keep two differint roosters and use them separtely when you want to hatch a certan thing,

i would have the leghorns and other light breed layers, even some sexlink hens and such in with a nice Leghorn rooster or something light and eggy

then you could have some Rocks, RIR or Delaware type hens and a big Cornish rooster, the standard cornish would make a good cross on these hens, or you could even keep a CornishX rooster on this side of Freezer camp if you feed him right and use him over the hens, i have done this before and it makes a decent cross,

all one breed will not meet all your needs, there is no such thing with out compromise, you just need to decide what kind of compromise you are willing to do,

 

The 3 responses after mine pretty much prove the OP's point and mine.

I would kill to try my own Plymouth Rock roo over a White or Buff Cornish because I might, by holding onto good parents, be able to bread a decently fast growing meat bird. (I'd be happy with 5lbs at 17 weeks.)

I've wondered what a PR roo covering a Delaware would produce; my 4 Delaware roos, raised on 16% and freeranged, were pretty meaty just after they crowed or soon before. I have no clue how well Delawares lay; I have never been lucky enough to get a hen although the last 3 were "sexed pullets". Hahaha!

 

First off, I don't think I've ever heard anyone here praise just dual purpose breeds as the be-all-end-all in chickens. Most here understand that a leghorn is the very best layer. Most here understand that the industry Cornish rock grows faster with a better feed/meat conversion than any other chicken.

Guess the OP hasn't been trying the right dual purpose breeds, or perhaps doesn't understand what a dual purpose is supposed to do. As others have said, a dual purpose is NOT supposed to be laying 7 eggs a week and a butcherable 6lbs at 8 weeks.

Another thing to be aware of is that different strains of the same breed behave differently. I have Marans that grow quickly (good butcher size by 5 months) and the hens lay 6 eggs a week. They also go broody. Others here have reported much slower growing marans, and the hens only laying 4 to 5 eggs a week.

My Plymouth Rocks were fantastic at growth rate and egg laying. They are the original American version of the dual purpose. I just couldn't stand their personalities. (or lack there-of)

What many don't understand is that the dual purpose have to be selected for the strain. If you're buying for SHOWING, you're not going to get the same as if you're buying for eggs/meat. The show stock gets culled if it has an off color feather..even if it grows so quickly that it's a monster. If it's too big and over standard..it gets culled. Etc.

Katy, I'm confused as to why you DON'T just use your own Rock with a Cornish? It's easy, and many here have done it. However, unless you have the strains that have been bred over decades to eat and process feed quickly, you won't get the same success that the commercial hatcheries get. Hybrids will almost always grow faster than either parent did. It's just the way genetics works. It's one reason why the Freedom Ranger is/was so popular.

And like others have said again....with chickens...just breed what you want. Keep various breeds. Keep what works for you. What we've found works best for us is Marans, Cornish(love the birds for meat birds and aggressive foragers), and a few Cochin hens for broodies.

 

Katy, I'm confused as to why you DON'T just use your own Rock with a Cornish? It's easy, and many here have done it. However, unless you have the strains that have been bred over decades to eat and process feed quickly, you won't get the same success that the commercial hatcheries get. Hybrids will almost always grow faster than either parent did. It's just the way genetics works. It's one reason why the Freedom Ranger is/was so popular. .

I don't have Rocks or Cornish now and probably won't be raising chickens ever again in my lifetime. I had Rocks as a child along with Leghorns and RIRS; the Rock roos were huge but not aggressive. (I never had a mean roo until last year; he was an EEer.) Anyway, I'm just doing some dreaming and wondering what several crosses would make. It's good to know that Rocks do mature fairly quickly; the Delawares were pretty fast IMO.

 

that was the most depressing thing i think i have ever read on here Katy, how dare you proclaim something so sad on here, lol, i still think you should put your roosters in with all them pullets and hatch all kinds of cool things

 

ahhhh. that explains it then. I was pretty confused because I remember you talking about crossing chickens and such. Thanks for the explanation.

I've got some crosses in the basement right now that are going to be interesting. (they're in the basement because there's no rooom for them in the coops..so they have a fenced in area downstairs..complete with a "sun" and "moon" ) ANYway....I had eggs from Miss Odd (a strange looking marans...REALLY big with a white head/neck but gold cuckoo body and a floppy comb), Red-an EE, Blue Jersey Giant, and Blue Cochin. Possible Roos were HUGE cuckoo marans, Blue cochin, Black copper Marans.

They're all much further along than their parents were at this age. Lots of crowing going on and combs are getting red quickly. They're not even 4 months old yet. I really love the mixes. At least the first generation because you just never know what's going to happen

 

I can live vicariously if you post more about those babies and how they do for you, WA. In my "fantasy breeding game" I'd considered Jersey Giants but can't find information about how fast they develop. (When do they reach 5lbs?) What turned me off of dark Cornish was feather color so I pretty much dismissed Black JGs. If you process early does color make a significant difference? My butcher charges more for "heritage birds" because they're harder to pluck; he didn't for my young roos so I'm thinking most people take in much older birds. Does my reasoning make sense or was he just being nice? (He really is nice.)

 

I like the dark cornish just because of the color Although if I were going to raise them for sale, I'd go with the white or buff cornish, I admit.

Jersey Giants...I've raised them in the past, and am starting again this year. They take at least 6 months to get big enough to butcher. They grow FAST...but it's mostly bone for the first 5 months. Tall and gangly. then they put on meat fast. When they're butchered out tho..holy cow! LONG long legs and thighs. plenty of dark meat. The breast is long, but narrowish. Easiest way I found to decide if they're ready to butcher is to pick him up and feel him all over. they LOOK big at 3 or 4 months, but when you pick them up they're really light, and bony. We just ate one of the last of our Jersey Giants the other night. Very tastey! Crosses with a jersey giant are hard to calculate. They can pass along the bone, or the rapid growth.

I think it IS harder to get an older bird plucked clean. The skin around the feathers gets kind of rubbery, I think. wish we had a nice butcher around here. Our poultry processor is nice enough, but never has time for anything but "how many? ".

oh goodness. We've really wandered off point, haven't we? Sorry. It's just fun to talk about the various ideas and the types of birds.