[rambler]

1) "He says there's an easement on our side of the fence that we can use to build our own road - but he's putting up the gate in two weeks."
2)"we will have to spend money we don't have to either pay for half the gate (which will still be on his property), or put in a road now."
:grump:
Rambler, above is a quote from my original post and a later post of mine. I know there's a third mention of our own road, too. The point was, we don't have the funds for any of this, and we were told (and he was told, if you read the original post) that the logging road was an easement by prescription. I know he knows this because he made mention of it to me long ago before he even started clearing land. Perhaps I didn't realize what land-locked meant, but it doesn't change the situation. As far as we are concerned, we have no way to get to our property without spending lots of money on some sort of solution, that's all.

You've said several other things, & in my head they contradict each other..... So, in my head this is all very confusing.

You currently have some type of easement with a road on it that gets you, in a vehicle, from a public road to your property. Correct?

He is building a different road, & wants to put his house/ yard on top of your easement, eliminating that road/path. Correct?

There is a thrid spot where you can build your own road, but it will still be on his property, and he just pointed over there somewhere. Correct?

Are those three things accurate now? It is confusing to follow what is, will be, & plans to be......

If you in any way give up your current, legal access to your property _just as it is now_ you will be shot in the foot & will forever more have a very expensive legal battle.

Do not change, agree to change, or allow any changes to what you have right now, until you better understand this issue, and have a good legal council that is advising you on your rights.

Once you give up your current legal access to your property, you will be cut off from accessing your property. His new driveway, or some unimproved 3rd bit of property, has _no legal bearing at this time_. With a snap of his fingers, you are _done for_ if you just verbally agree to any of that.

If I misunderstand about the 3 possible driveway access possibilities, then forgive me - as I say, it got pretty confusing.

I do believe you very likely could lose all access to your property if you are not careful. Anything you say or do or don't do at this point in the muddy waters created can come back to haunt you. You _really_ need legal help on this, or you easily could lose the use of your land.

You already have a rather 'rude to others' forced easement access. If you abandon that type of easement, I too would quickly void it as I'll bet the land owner would like to. Such types of easements tend to rub people the wrong way. You wouldn't like it if someone got to chop & use your land with a driveway throught it either. Yes, it was there & should be part of the way things are, and just how it is & no you don't want to be rude. But still, the thoughts of what can & could come through, etc. would make you, me, & this neighbor wish it wasn't there. If the shoe were on your, my, or his foot.

Do not give him the oppertunity to remove the easement by abandoning it, unless you have an even better permanent easement _on paper_ that is legally binding for your property, not just you personally. It must be attached to the deed, or it may not follow the property, and will devalue your property down the road.

Now, certainly I would work with the fellow, & both of you can come out ahead on this deal of no one gets odd about it. You could end up with a better location for your drive with a real, proper easement rather than the 'perscription' dealie. And he could end up with a better place for himself with the easement off to one side, not splitting his prized location. There is room for both of you to work this out, & all to be happy.

My opinion. I'm only a simple dirt farmer, so don't trust me, I don't know much.

Other than easements are a royal pain to everyone.

--->Paul

 

[Unregistered]

1) "He says there's an easement on our side of the fence that we can use to build our own road - but he's putting up the gate in two weeks."
2)"we will have to spend money we don't have to either pay for half the gate (which will still be on his property), or put in a road now."
:grump:
Rambler, above is a quote from my original post and a later post of mine. I know there's a third mention of our own road, too. The point was, we don't have the funds for any of this, and we were told (and he was told, if you read the original post) that the logging road was an easement by prescription. I know he knows this because he made mention of it to me long ago before he even started clearing land. Perhaps I didn't realize what land-locked meant, but it doesn't change the situation. As far as we are concerned, we have no way to get to our property without spending lots of money on some sort of solution, that's all.

You are not landlocked. You have an easement. You do not want to spend the money to build a road on the easement.
This is not the neighbors problem. Your financial problems have nothing to do with the neighbor. There have been many threads about neighbors tearing down fences, trespassing, and destroying property. No one wants their property used as a road for others just because the neighbor cannot afford to build a road where they have an easement. It isn't the neighbors place to provide a road for you.
You can spend money on a lawyer and take the time to go to court. You will loose as there is an easement in place. Just because you do not want to or cannot afford to build a road does not change the law. The money and time would be better spent building a road on the easement on record, not fighting to take the neighbors land.

 

[MELOC]

they have an easement. the neighbor wish not to honor it.

 

[Unregistered]

Yes they have an easement. They also have a road. They are not in the same place. The neighbor wants to honor the easement. They want to use the logging road that is not in the easement.
Is it that hard to believe that a person who bought and paid for his own land would like to have the use of their own land?
According to the poster they want to drive across their neighbors land where they want to and do not want him to have a choice about where he can build his house.
His land, his house, his fence, his gate.
I don't know about you but I think I should have the right to build my house where I want to, not depend on my neighbor to tell me where he wants me to build it.
The one thing I can see from the post. The neighbor has the money to buy his land, build his house, fence his property. That should be his right.
The poster does not have the money to build a road. Why should the neighbor provide a road for someone else?
Please reread the threads.
Also please read another post about the neighbors tearing down the fence. Not a lot of difference.

 

[MELOC]

i have read the posts. the original poster has an existing road in use and most likely registered in more than one place...it is the logging road. the new neighbor cannot block that access. yes, they have the opportunity to make a new road or to participate in a trendy, new and expensive venture...a gated access they can share responsibility for. they should not have to as they have access by the historically used logging road as stated on their deed. it is rediculous for the new owner to even attempt to block that access. even if i did make a new road, i would still keep that road open.

 

[Unregistered]

You may have read the post but there are a few things you may not understand.
It is a logging road. They are not registered in Ms. The land is in Ms. They are not permament roads. Logging roads are roads made by loggers across an area to remove the logs. Their purpose is to remove the logs, nothing more. There isn't enough paper to register or record all of the logging roads in Ms. To give another example. If you have a hay meadow. When they bale the hay a truck has to come across the meadow to haul the bales of hay out of the meadow. The drive across the meadow does not make that a road. Neither does driving across some land to remove logs make it a road.
There are thousands of logging roads in Ms. The land owner has the right to close all logging roads.
Logging roads are not put on deeds in Ms. Other states may vary but we are talking about Ms. They are not marked on maps either. They have no names. They exist only to remove logs, hence the name. When this job is over they cease to exixt.

 

[SteveD(TX)]

You may have read the post but there are a few things you may not understand.
It is a logging road. They are not registered in Ms. The land is in Ms. They are not permament roads. Logging roads are roads made by loggers across an area to remove the logs. Their purpose is to remove the logs, nothing more. There isn't enough paper to register or record all of the logging roads in Ms. To give another example. If you have a hay meadow. When they bale the hay a truck has to come across the meadow to haul the bales of hay out of the meadow. The drive across the meadow does not make that a road. Neither does driving across some land to remove logs make it a road.
There are thousands of logging roads in Ms. The land owner has the right to close all logging roads.
Logging roads are not put on deeds in Ms. Other states may vary but we are talking about Ms. They are not marked on maps either. They have no names. They exist only to remove logs, hence the name. When this job is over they cease to exixt.

Wrong again.

If a logging road evolves into an access road, the law typically states that this becomes a permanent easement, however it usually takes a written and recorded instrument signed by both parties or a court order to legally establish it as such. And no, if there is an easement, the owner may NOT place his house there, or anything else to obstruct access. Depending on the specific circumstances, this is either an implied easement, a prescriptive easement, or an easement by estoppel.

 

[painterswife]

"EASEMENT BY PRESCRIPTION:
The continuing, unchallenged use of all or part of a property by the owner of a neighboring or nearby property for a specific period of time (20 years in many jurisdictions) such that, by law, the using owner gains a legal right to continue that use. "

"In Mississippi, the period of adverse use must be at least ten (10) years. Mississippi Code §15-1-7, 13."

It can be a Logging road or a footpath, it does not matter.

 

[crystalniche]

Just another thought. I would watch the burning issue. One of our neighbors did something on their own land but when the other neighbors started to complain they in turn called the town and reported it as US being the ones who did it. When the town came out they plainly saw that it was a false complaint and went to the neighbor who had done it but as they were here first the rest of the neighbors were sure it was us who did it and them who "turned us in". This even tho the town proved it was the neighbor. You could end up getting the blame for the burn if you aren't careful.

 

[Unregistered]

Wrong again.

If a logging road evolves into an access road, the law typically states that this becomes a permanent easement, however it usually takes a written and recorded instrument signed by both parties or a court order to legally establish it as such. And no, if there is an easement, the owner may NOT place his house there, or anything else to obstruct access. Depending on the specific circumstances, this is either an implied easement, a prescriptive easement, or an easement by estoppel.

Please reread the original post.
There was no recorded instrument signed by anybody. Therefore there was no easement except in the place the neighbor stated. He is free to put his house anywhere on his property.
The reason I know a little more than most of the posters is I live just north of the property in question.
The original poster can waste their money trying to fight this, use their money to build a new road inside the easement, or come to an agreement with the neighbor. It is their choice which way they want to spend their money. I usually try to spend my money in the wisest way so I do not have to spend an additional amount to redo the task.
Their choice.

 

[Unregistered]

"EASEMENT BY PRESCRIPTION:
The continuing, unchallenged use of all or part of a property by the owner of a neighboring or nearby property for a specific period of time (20 years in many jurisdictions) such that, by law, the using owner gains a legal right to continue that use. "

"In Mississippi, the period of adverse use must be at least ten (10) years. Mississippi Code §15-1-7, 13."

It can be a Logging road or a footpath, it does not matter.

Please note they moved to the property last September. Far short of the 10 years.

 

[painterswife]

A prescriptive easement goes with the property at sale. So as long as it has been used by the previous owners for that period of time it is in effect.

 

[Unregistered]

There wasn't enough info on the origianl post to decide the issue. I have gone through the same deal 2 times. I can assure you what the outcome will be. Like I said, it is the original posters money that will be spent. Their choice if they want to spend it twice.

 

[Catty]

As someone mentioned before, easements are a pain in the :grump: and we personally will never deal with them again. Lets just say we weren't told the truth by anyone that we dealth with in the purchase of this land. Unregistered, I'd love to know who you are and if you knew the people who lived here. When we originally set out to buy this property, that logging road was listed as "previous owner" road on one of the internet address sites - can't remember if it was Google or Yahoo! Just a matter of looking. We were "assured" that we would have perpetual use of said road, too. Notice the first three letters of that word because that's what we feel like. Also, new owner told me he "knew" he couldn't block us off. So, again, we're thinking "Phew". Again, we're feeling like that three letter word. Also if you know the previous owners, we had to battle termites, which they promised they never had a problem with and replace ALL the piping under ALL the sinks and behind BOTH bathtubs...as soon as we realized the water pressure had been turned down and we turned it back up - boom! So, since no one has been telling us the truth so far, we're tending toward not believing anyone, digging into our pockets to build our own road and just pray that we are doing the right thing. We're going to meet with the new people and hope we can "buy" some time since his house is still sticks (three stories high sticks) and he won't need a gate before we can get our road done. See, we were told that 10-20 year thing had to do with access to the property, not the people...meaning that since this property had been accessed by that road for years, it would continue to be thus. And new neighbors were obviously told that since he repeated it back to me when we first met. So, it had to come from somewhere. Anyway, you are right and he has every right to use his property. And I have every right to be upset about the situation.

 

[Unregistered]

Catty,
I am very sorry about all the problems you have. It isn't unusual for the state. From your post I assumed you were from out of state. I may be mistaken. Sorry if that is the case.
For many years the state of Ms. has been know as the most corrupt state in the U.S. The problems you have are not that much different than many who move into Ms. I have been here since 1989 and most think I was born and raised here.
From the experiences I have had and many others I have seen, if you do not have it noted on your deed you will loose in court. While in many cases the logging road could have been used it still was just a logging road. There are many in use nowdays but it is only with the permission of the landowners. No landowner would ever let an easement for a log road be noted on their deed. I am sure you would not either.
It isn't unusual for a real estate dealer in Ms. to sell property that they do not own. It takes years for the courts to decide who is the owner.
One case in point. We owned 120 acres where one corner was in the middle of a river. The river made a s curve. Another neighbor owned land on both sides of our corner in the river. For 20 years we traded the use as roadway across our corner so the neighbor would not have to build a bridge than would be washed out each year. We were given the use of 5 acres on another corner. This was fine for over 20 years. We sold. The neighbor decided he wanted to build a house on the 5 acres he traded for the the bridge. The new owner took back the bridge and now the neighbor has to drive 20 miles farther and build a new bridge across the river. Cost a lot of money as the bridge gets washed out almost every year.
It would have saved many dollars just to continue to trade the use of the 5 acres. His idea was he had used the bridge and road for 20 years and should be able to always use it.
The court didn't see it that way as it was never recorded on the deed.
Good luck in what ever you decide.

 

[MELOC]

developers

they spread a little money around, provide a few nice dinners and weekend getaways and think they own the world.

 

[Catty]

I have to apologize. To prove myself right, I went on Yahoo Maps and found that I have been wrong about the name of the road....it doesn't apply to the portion that we use as I "remembered" it did :shrug: . I figured since I was getting pretty riled up, I ought to be brave enough to admit that I was wrong about that. Thanks for all that have been "listening." Now, just pray that we can get along so we don't have nasty relationships with the people that are moving in all around us....though, I suppose that some if it will just as much up to us....a lot of tongue biting and humility, I guess. Darn.

 

[SteveD(TX)]

Please reread the original post.
There was no recorded instrument signed by anybody. Therefore there was no easement except in the place the neighbor stated. He is free to put his house anywhere on his property.
The reason I know a little more than most of the posters is I live just north of the property in question.
The original poster can waste their money trying to fight this, use their money to build a new road inside the easement, or come to an agreement with the neighbor. It is their choice which way they want to spend their money. I usually try to spend my money in the wisest way so I do not have to spend an additional amount to redo the task.
Their choice.

I know that there is no recorded instrument. Catty can hire a lawyer to advise her that there could be either an implied easement, presecriptive easement, or easement by estoppel. It will take a court order to get it, but if the property owner realizes it through a persuasive letter or otherwise, this may not take a lawsuit to settle it. Of course, like you said, the best thing to do is to try and work it out without attorneys. But the lack of a recorded instrument does not mean that an easement doesn't exist. It just means it's unrecorded and therefore "not official". The other property owner (servient estate) risks a lawsuit and serious damages to the dominant estate if he obstructs access to their home.

The reason I know about this stuff is - this is what I do for a living (23 years). I am a commercial real estate appraiser and consultant specializing in eminent domain issues, easements, etc. I also have testified many times as an expert witness in court cases involving easements, etc.

DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVISE. GET AN ATTORNEY TO ADVISE YOU IN THIS MATTER, AND HIRE A LOCAL APPRAISER IF NECESSARY.

 

[Unregistered]

I know that there is no recorded instrument. Catty can hire a lawyer to advise her that there could be either an implied easement, presecriptive easement, or easement by estoppel. It will take a court order to get it, but if the property owner realizes it through a persuasive letter or otherwise, this may not take a lawsuit to settle it. Of course, like you said, the best thing to do is to try and work it out without attorneys. But the lack of a recorded instrument does not mean that an easement doesn't exist. It just means it's unrecorded and therefore "not official". The other property owner (servient estate) risks a lawsuit and serious damages to the dominant estate if he obstructs access to their home.

The reason I know about this stuff is - this is what I do for a living (23 years). I am a commercial real estate appraiser and consultant specializing in eminent domain issues, easements, etc. I also have testified many times as an expert witness in court cases involving easements, etc.

DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVISE. GET AN ATTORNEY TO ADVISE YOU IN THIS MATTER, AND HIRE A LOCAL APPRAISER IF NECESSARY.

Please read the above post by the original poster.
My idea in posting was to save the original poster money as they wanted to save as much as possible.
Law suites may be great for lawyers. Normal people should avoid them as much as possible, especially when in the wrong.

Catty, thanks for posting your last post. It takes an honest person to admit a mistake. Hopefully you will make a great neighbor.

 

[BobK]

not sure but it sounds like the logging road is not the easment...and the easement is along the fenceline and not developed...at least that is what it sounds like to me.......you need a lawyer and will probably hae to decide to use the existing roads under some of his rules or develop your legal easement to your property........logging roads were often for convienence and not always considered as being 'the' easement....often because the loggin road split an existing property....good luck!