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From Kunstler. Get ready.

This article discusses where we are heading. THe first part discusses why feeding the Zombies (Citigroup, Banks, F&F, etc) will not work.

Then rapid inflation in 6-18 months. Then the devaluation of the dollar. Enter our inability to afford imported oil. Then we need to move to a local economy.

If you have a homestead with meat and vegetable and grains you should do fine. It may even be an opportunity to sell meat and veggies and grains to the local market.

http://www.inteldaily.com/news/173/ARTICLE/8827/2008-11-24.html
 

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AFKA ZealYouthGuy
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If Kunstler truly believed half of what he was saying, he'd be living in a shack in remote New Zealand raising chickens and rabbits and tending a small vegetable plot.
Agreed. It's more advantageous ($$$) to stay and write and do interviews I am sure.

But who knows what he has set up somewhere.

I don't buy the zombie hordes eat your neighbor brand of collapse that he sells though. But it's often good "Doomer Porn".
 
G

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Well, doomer porn is what it's all about isn't it? Y2K, avian flu, peak oil, nuke war. No lack of folks out there telling us all about 'the way it's gonna be.'

And if they've foolishly given a date by which it's supposed to happen they quietly fade into the woodwork when it doesn't. Most of them though know better than to give any firm date so they can come back when ever the time seems right. Look at Howard Ruff and Gary North.

ALL of these things are real dangers so it would be foolish to say they can't happen. It's that the certainty of them occurring at any given time is not there nor is the severity. Yet with every passing year we see disasters and calamities happening world wide to someone so it is always a good idea to get prepped and stay that way. Just because we didn't fall into the Dark Ages from one particular end-of-the-world scenario doesn't mean that disaster will never befall us.

Become too wed to one scenario and you don't see the one approaching you from behind.

.....Alan.
 

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Wendell Berry, Gene Logsden, and John Seymour are about all I read these days on these topics. While they may see hard times approaching, they give you good, practical advice on how to prepare for that future. It's just good practical advice on how to live in general!

Kunstler and his ilk are good at gathering the research of what's happening, but they don't have a plan. They sit in Starbucks and sip expensive lattes while discussing the food shortages. They fly out to Aspen for an expensive seminar on peak oil.

My dream neighborhood would have been to live in a really remote rural area with John Seymour on one side of me and Jackie Clay (of Backwoods fame) on the other.

On a brighter note, yesterday my wife showed me how to use her loom. It's really relaxing! Before you know it you've woven a couple of foot worth of blanket! I may have to spend some money and get me one of those myself. I've got a serious passion for Navajo blankets.
 

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It's called a rigid heddle loom. It's fairly big, but it folds down so you can put it away when you're not working on it. She likes it, but hasn't finished anything yet. I liked working with it, but warping it really looked like a pain in the butt.

And this is so awful to say ... I can't believe I'm admitting this here in public ... but weaving I find to be a more manly task than knitting. She's been knitting for a long time and has always been after me to join her in it, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it. There have been male weavers for all of recorded history and it's a nice change of pace after working all day outside.

You may now flame me at will for having expressed my chauvinistic, non-politically correct viewpoint in public now.
 

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ROTFL.

So she has a *real* loom. Mine is a cheap little plastic thing from Walmart called "Knifty Knitter". How's that for an embarrassing public admission?

Knitting and crocheting are also very relaxing. I've heard spinning is as well, and haven't tried it yet, but do plan to get together with another of our fine members who offered to teach me. :cool: I just need to find the opportunity for a day trip into God's country, Illinois.

From zombies to chauvinism to embarrassing revelations on what we do for R&R.

Truly, there are male knitters out there. Men have just as much of a right to creative endeavors as women in the textiles market. Artistry is open to all.
 

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I seem to remember reading an article about the special sweaters knitted for sale in Iceland, and IIRC many of the knitters were men. Maybe it makes a difference if it's for income? But Ernie is right that many of the weavers throughout history have been men.

I wish we had room for a loom -- I'd like to learn to weave. I can spin (on a drop spindle -- don't have room for a spinning wheel either), and crochet, and make felt, but weaving would be a useful skill.

As for economics, it's true that date-setting is somewhat futile, but I do think that Kunstler and the Peak Oil people have come pretty close on their time frame so far, so I'm not totally dismissing their predictions for the future. I certainly take ANY prediction with a grain of salt, the size of the grain of salt depending on past accuracy of the person, but I do think we are in the beginnings of societal collapse.

Kathleen
 

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Kunstler is an academic. He asks good questions but has no answers except occasionally for vague implications such as 'be more like Europe'.
 

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If Kunstler truly believed half of what he was saying, he'd be living in a shack in remote New Zealand raising chickens and rabbits and tending a small vegetable plot.
I'm sorry Ernie, I can see how you have become dissolutioned with Kunstler, hyping his product while he himself won't use it. Whether or not he himself actually believes his own predictions, enough of them ring true for me to take him seriously.

I latched onto these paragraphs in the above commentary.

To be specific about this new economy, we're going to have to make things again, and raise things out of the earth, locally, and trade these things for money of some kind that we earn through our own productive activities. Don't make the mistake of thinking this is optional. The only other option is to go through a violent sociopolitical convulsion. We ought to know from prior examples in world history that this is not a desirable experience. So, to avoid that, we really have to put our shoulders to the wheel and get to work on things that matter, and do it at a scale that is consistent with what the world really has to offer right now, especially in terms of available energy.

In my view -- and I know this is controversial -- a much larger proportion of the US population will have to be employed in growing the food we eat. There are many ways of arranging this, some more fair than others, and I hope the better angels of our nature steer us in the direction of fairness and justice. The prospects of a devalued dollar imply that we very shortly will not be able to get the all the oil-and-gas based "inputs" that have made petro-agriculture possible the past century. The consequences of this are so unthinkable that we have not been thinking about it. And, of course, the further implications of current land-use allocation, and the property ownership issues entailed, suggests formidable difficulties in re-arranging the farming sector. The sooner we face all this, the better.


I myself have decided to follow that advice, and my homestead is largely devoted to growing food for my family, and for what I can market. I want to garden organically, not so much because I've made it my religion like so many have, but because I envision a time when I won't be able to pick up bags of fertilizer or bug spray at Home Depot. I also love hot, running water, but am already working on alternatives for that which don't come out of the city tap. And, I've guns that I plan on using to put food on the table (or keep the food on MY table).

Maybe Kunstler himself doesn't believe in all his own hype, but as I like to say to people, "We'll find out"!
Michael
 

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Kunstler misses one GIANT problem in our future , thats Gangs , conservitave estimates are that there are between 2 and 8 Million members of gangs , when TSHTF they are going to become a CRIMINAL malitia , they are well armed and have a military style hirachry , the powers that be cant control them now , so what will happen after TSHTF God only knows , IMHO there will be parts of the USA controlled by these scum ,what is certain is they will make sure THEY are the ones that eat .
 
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And this is so awful to say ... I can't believe I'm admitting this here in public ... but weaving I find to be a more manly task than knitting. She's been knitting for a long time and has always been after me to join her in it, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it. There have been male weavers for all of recorded history and it's a nice change of pace after working all day outside.

You may now flame me at will for having expressed my chauvinistic, non-politically correct viewpoint in public now.
Ernie, I'm surprised that YOU are concerned with what does and does not appear to be 'manly.'

A REAL MAN doesn't give a darn about that. He does what he thinks needs to be done whether it's knitting or cooking the Thanksgiving dinner. It's only the masculinity insecure men that get uptight about such stuff.

.....Alan.
 

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Agreed. It's more advantageous ($$$) to stay and write and do interviews I am sure.

But who knows what he has set up somewhere.

I don't buy the zombie hordes eat your neighbor brand of collapse that he sells though. But it's often good "Doomer Porn".
The guy's a writer and he's got to make a living! Don't forget even a rural lit icon like Wendell Berry "sipped lattes" in San Fran, Paris, Rome, and NYC for ~10 years before returning back to Kentucky to farm and write. Kunstler believes in city life and the resurgence in small-scale commercial shipping over water, so he lives in a small city by the Erie Canal.

I've read all of his books, regularly visit his blog, and don't recall reading a thing from him about zombie hordes (not that there's anything wrong with writing about zombie hordes :D) in fact I'd say he's careful to describe TEOTWAWKI as a steady decline ("The LONG Emergency" not "The Short, Terrifying Cannibal Zombie Holocaust"). And I don't think Kunstler is anti-air travel, he just knows that a train system would be more efficient, thus more suitable to the coming energy situation. Sure he has a merciless style, but I wouldn't say he's over-the-top content-wise.

So, if it's doomer porn, it's of the soft-core variety. I've always though his central message is pretty clear and measured: we need to reduce the scale of American life because it is inhumane and unsustainable. Nothing wrong with that.
 

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Well any doomer who's predicting cannibalism is pretty hard-core in my opinion... not to mention being a date setter (repeatedly failed). As I said, I don't buy it.

I don't think he's careful at all to predict a steady decline. Anytime something bad happens he's there predicting the end.

9/11 was the end of the skyscraper, y2K (Predicting the death of walmart and kmarts because of y2k), among a long line of failed immediate "predictions".

Like a blind squirrel, he eventually finds a nut, but the essence of the true tail is the essence of the Boy that Cried Wolf. When the wolf finally comes, the boy isn't vindicated, he's eaten and disregarded.
 

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Ernie, I'm surprised that YOU are concerned with what does and does not appear to be 'manly.'

A REAL MAN doesn't give a darn about that. He does what he thinks needs to be done whether it's knitting or cooking the Thanksgiving dinner. It's only the masculinity insecure men that get uptight about such stuff.

.....Alan.
What can I say? I contain multitudes. And complex. :)

I actually enjoy cooking, and I clean house (when it dips below even MY level of required sanitation). But there are some things that I just can't get past. I don't mind sewing, as a man ought to be able to repair his own clothing. Knitting is just something I can't get past. My wife pointed out that lots of men knit and sent me out into the world wide web to see for myself. Unfortunately all the stops I came across were gay men knitting blogs. That didn't improve my image of it.

Unfortunately there are still some things my chauvinistic mind divides, and when I hear that voice telling me what is or isn't manly ... it's the voice of my father.

Something for me to overcome yet.
 

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What can I say? I contain multitudes. And complex. :)

I actually enjoy cooking, and I clean house (when it dips below even MY level of required sanitation). But there are some things that I just can't get past. I don't mind sewing, as a man ought to be able to repair his own clothing. Knitting is just something I can't get past. My wife pointed out that lots of men knit and sent me out into the world wide web to see for myself. Unfortunately all the stops I came across were gay men knitting blogs. That didn't improve my image of it.

Unfortunately there are still some things my chauvinistic mind divides, and when I hear that voice telling me what is or isn't manly ... it's the voice of my father.

Something for me to overcome yet.
I'm sure the men are lining up behind you, nodding their heads. At least you're manly enough to admit a failing or two. Those silent nodders in the background, not so much.
 
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Well, I have to admit that in the past I've done embroidery (at work while on lunch break!), but by and large I just can't get into sewing. I can sew on a button, hem a pair of pants, roughly repair a tear, but that's about it. My wife does the serious sewing.

I've actually thought about learning to knit as it's a useful skill, but it's also a time eater so it's on the "one day" list.

.....Alan.
 
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