Would somebody PLEASE tell me how to prevent Listeriosis?

Discussion in 'Goats' started by boermommy, Oct 20, 2006.

  1. boermommy

    boermommy Boer goats and teenagers

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    I am at a loss. Yesterday afternoon Jasmine was fine. At 10:00 p.m. last night I looked out and she was down. I gave her high doses of Procaine Penecillan and Fortified Vitamin B at 10:00 last night and at 5:00 this morning. She died about 8:00 a.m.

    This is the fourth case of Listeriosis I've had in 18 months. My goats DO NOT get moldy hay or feed. I know that we go over and above on the health care and I am still losing my pets.
     
  2. Jcran

    Jcran Well-Known Member

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    I'm not even really clear on what listeriosis is...I will follow this thread closely! My condolences on your loss!
     

  3. AllWolf

    AllWolf We love all our animals

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    Just something that might help..

    Goat Polio or Listeriosis?

    This tells how to treat and prevent it also..

    Good Luck with your goats. :)
     
  4. gryndlgoat

    gryndlgoat Well-Known Member

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    Can you describe your feeding routines and what you feed? For example, does a lot of hay and feed end up on the ground and then get eaten? Any time feed or hay hits the ground it has the potential to get moldy or infected with Listeria germs from being stepped in, no matter how high quality it was when you fed it. Give us a few more details and maybe we can zero in on where your management might be causing issues?

    Listeriosis is a dreadful way for a goat to die and almost as hard on the owner to have to watch. I feel so sorry for you- you obviously love your goats very much. Maybe if we all put our heads together we can figure out what is going on in your goat barn. I sure hope so!

    And don't be hard on yourself- you are asking the right questions and that is the first step to solving any problem! Good for you!
     
  5. Sher

    Sher Well-Known Member

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    Excellant post from gryndigoat..and I agree..don't be too hard on yourself..you are trying to find out the mystery of this.

    I was wondering too..could there be someplace that holds water...that most of the goats are not going to to drink out of...but maybe this handful of goats does? Like a container of some kind that fills when it rains..or a tire..you know...some odd thing that the other goats don't look twice at?

    If so...that may contain the Listeria.

    I wish you much good luck. I am so sorry for your loss and hope that something stands out as the cause very soon.
     
  6. moonspinner

    moonspinner Well-Known Member

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    What kind of grain do you feed and how much? Does it have much molasses and/or corn in it? Have you always had the same grain from the same source? Listeriosis bacteria can also be present in soil or water. That you've had four cases suggests you need to do some investigation. Are you sure it's listeriosis and not polio? I'd still give B therapy. Maybe your goats are not getting enough B in their system or something is inhibiting it. That's far too high to just be happenstance.
     
  7. copperpennykids

    copperpennykids Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I would suggest that you go to DairyGoatsinfo.com and ask there as well.

    The gals (and guys) on there are very experienced and knowledgable, and give you lots of information to help ferret out what might be going on, as well as treatment recommendations that just might save your goat.

    I have never had listerosis, so don't feel qualified to advise, which is why I am referring you to the forum.

    CopperPennyQueen

    P.S. They are also nice.
     
  8. goathappy

    goathappy Member

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    Do you feed silage at all? Are you overfeeding grain or concentrates? Do you feed alot of sulfur, or any supplemental sulfur to your goats?
    We have had 3 cases of polio/lister(I'm not sure which one it was) and we found it was caused by feeding additional sulfur.
     
  9. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    The first question is always how do you know this is listerosis you are dealing with? And of course all the other questions are good also. Need lots more info. Vicki
     
  10. goatkid

    goatkid Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I echo what Vicki says. If I had this many deaths in this short a time of goats who have the same symptoms, I'd want to be sure just what illness I'm dealing with, or if the goats may be getting into something that is poisoning them. I'd have the goat necropsied to see what they find. Sorry you lost your goat.
     
  11. boermommy

    boermommy Boer goats and teenagers

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    Thank you so much dear friends for your help but I think I have figured it out.

    After spending a lot of time on the phone with a leading veterinary doctor in Virginia, I have come to a realization.

    This doctor asked me how I knew it was Listeriosis. I informed him of the symptoms...circling, head drawn to one side, excited etc. He said I was probably right...Listeriosis.

    After many questions...feed, barn conditions, and more, he informed me that if there is standing water (we have natural spings in the middle of our 7 acres) that plants will rot and possibly grow listeria near new growth that my goats could be exposed to. Jasmine was only one year old and losing teeth while growing in her big girl teeth. A cut or opening in the gums could have been the culprit for this terrible problem. He also said that the inflammation in the brain causes more damages than the bacteria itself.

    If you have bog conditions in your field, you could have a problem.

    He also told me that Nuflor and Banamine could have helped more than just the high doses of Pennicillian and Vitamin B. I am getting some of both medications from the vet this week.

    I am going to have the natural spings fenced off to see if that will solve my problem.
     
  12. PygmyLover

    PygmyLover nigerian & pygmy breeder

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    well I am glad you have something to go on and I truly hope this was your problem!

    I am sorry you lost your girl! :-( I hope this solution saves the rest. :)
     
  13. Sher

    Sher Well-Known Member

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    I am so glad that you have it pinpointed down .. that is such a worry when you don't know the why, what and how.

    If it gets rainy..which we have kinda forgotten about the last three years..we have a small indentation back in one pasture that holds water more than I would like. This was a good reminder for me and a wakeup call to check on it now that we have had some rain.

    Glad you found the problem..sorry about your loss. And thank you for posting the answer.
     
  14. JR05

    JR05 Well-Known Member

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    So sorry for your losses. I also had this problem this past summer. If you will look back to I think it was May or June threads. My vet instructed me to use batril and thiamine in high doses to combat this desease. Both of my girls are fine now but it was a very tough and go situation for a while. It took about 2-3 weeks before both girls were back to normal. I now keep both drugs on hand at all times. Also used nutradrench and probios every 4-6 hours while they were not eating. Hope this will help too.

    jr05
     
  15. Milk n' Honey

    Milk n' Honey Well-Known Member

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    Thiamine, while it won't hurt to give for Listeriosis, is not a treatment for Listeriosis. I strongly urge you to do lots and lots of research on Listeriosis and Polio both and learn the differences in the symptoms and treatments. Thiamine can pull a goat with Polio right out of it in one shot, sometimes, and the chance for survival with Polio is much better. With Listeriosis, you are looking at a 30% chance of survival, even with early and agressive treatment. The normal treatment for Listeriosis is an antibiotic and something to reduce the swelling of the brain. You will get some variations on what drugs to use within that but most will say high doses of Penicillan and Dex for the swelling. It never hurts to give a B complex along with it. My poor doe came down with this and I treated her and syringe fed her for something like a week and she finally died. If I had it to do over, after she went down, I'd have put her down. The chances of saving an animal that is down is like a million to one and it is too much torture on the poor thing. I don't ever want to watch that again. I know how awful it is, believe me. I'm so sorry you had to go through this and 4 times!! My doe showed symptoms before she went down. It is curious that you say she was fine and then down. Maybe she was doing something weird and you didn't notice it or maybe this wasn't Listeriosis? Just a thought. I sure hope fencing off that area helps. In our case, I believe it was some moldy hay. Another thing....did you buy her or was she born on your place? Goats can carry Listeriosis and all the sudden, you have an active case, due to stress, etc. Just another thought. I do hope this is cleared up for you now. It is soooo hard to lose one. God bless you.
     
  16. Milking Mom

    Milking Mom COTTON EYED DOES

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    Mold can be found in other sources besides hay. Do you know that the feed you give your goats are free from mold. Sometimes it is hard to see in the bag. If the feed store where you get your feed is damp or the bags got wet at some point or even the way you store your feed. If your climate has been humid and hot and you store your feed in a closed container mold could have formed in it. If your feed sacks sit on the ground, it will leach moisture up into the bottom of the bag and can mold the bottom of the feed in the sack. If the feed pans or hay feeders have left overs in them mold can form underneath it, especially if it has been rainy and misty. Water buckets scrubbed out completely clean weekly. After checking all of the possibilities and sweeping and raking up and burning any old hay that has fallen from the feeders and there is still a problem, then I would have a necropsy done sending in liver, tissue and blood samples. This must be very frustrating and heart breaking for you. I hope you get it figured out soon.
     
  17. Milk n' Honey

    Milk n' Honey Well-Known Member

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    I knew we had mold in our hay. We didn't know any better. It sure pays to be well informed "before-hand." We won't feed round bales for this reason. If you can find a round bale without mold, you've found a diamond in the rough!!
     
  18. Milking Mom

    Milking Mom COTTON EYED DOES

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  19. boermommy

    boermommy Boer goats and teenagers

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    Thanks dear friends for all of your love and help.

    Especially thanks to Milk N Honey and Vicki whose posts I have enjoyed and learned from for awhile now.

    In answer to your questions......no hay is given here until it snows...I have about 7 acres of really good browse here in NC and everybody stays pretty fat. I buy my feed weekly ay Southern States and keep it in trash cans in my garage. The trash cans were bought for that purpoase and are cleaned out regularly. My babies get a little 16% protein sweet goat feed in the evenings mixed in with a pellet medicated with Bovatec. As far as not noticing weird behavior, I've started watching them from the house with binoculars and I check on them in the mornings before I check on the teenage monsters upstairs. They drink water from a galvanized tub that is cleaned out and filled with fresh water about every three days. They are vaccinated for EVERYTHING and wormed regularly. Jasmine was purchased 18 months ago from a lovely couple in Texas who are very well known breeders.

    So do you now see my confusion? Some people don't even look after their herd and never even have one get sick. I have OCD when it comes to my goats and have experienced all kinds of strange stuff.

    Thanks again sweet friends. I don't know what I would do without you.