Worms??

Discussion in 'Pigs' started by barnyardfun, Apr 15, 2005.

  1. barnyardfun

    barnyardfun Happy Homemaker Supporter

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    I have been told that when my little piggys are coughing and hacking that they have worms..........I have three little ones, 2 gilts and a barrow. The biggest (and bossiest) is a gilt and she seems to be fine. The other two are smaller with the barrow being the smallest (figures since we are going to eat him!). Anyway the two smallest have been coughing and so I have given them all wormer and it hasn't done any good. I gave it to them over a week ago and they are still hacking as bad if not worse then before.

    Please advise on what I need to do! Thank you!
     
  2. barnyardfun

    barnyardfun Happy Homemaker Supporter

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    OH! Also I forgot! :rolleyes: I really don't like worming them because I like the more natural way of things but DH thought it would be best. Is there anything else we can do to help them besides medicine?? Or is that my only option? Thank you.
     

  3. agmantoo

    agmantoo agmantoo Supporter

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    IMHO it is essential to worm swine. You need to use an Ivomec wormer and preferrably an injectable one. You need to know that each animal has received the proper doseage and a water or feed additive will not assure you that has happened. Do not opt for the cheaper wormers!
     
  4. luvrulz

    luvrulz Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It's probably hardest to catch them rather then give them the shots! And be careful you don't accidently give yourself the shot! Had a guy down the road do that - he was laid up for 2 days!
     
  5. Siryet

    Siryet In Remembrance

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    You might try "ugh" Antibiotic we had a runt that was coughing alot and the breeder gave us penicillian and we gave the weaner shots for seven days. No more cough. Just a suggestion.
    Good luck
     
  6. seedspreader

    seedspreader AFKA ZealYouthGuy

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    I agree on the Ivomec, just injected mine the day I got them. Had them in a feed bag, poked a hole at their neck and voila!
     
  7. bethlaf

    bethlaf Homegrown Family

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    i disagree, i worm mine with diatomaceous earth , i dotn want to use chemicals on something im gonna eat ,
    you can top dress their feed once a week, since its a mechanical wormer, the worms cant possibly build up resistance ... unless they start building little worm tanks and a military ... anhy how, i know it works
    and its chemical free .

    Beth
     
  8. agmantoo

    agmantoo agmantoo Supporter

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    Ivomec's active product is also given to humans that have parasites. Worming is done infrequently and lasts. Worm way ahead of slaughter and you should be fine. There are sutle advantages to the ivermectin in that it gets the internal and the external parasites.
     
  9. Ronney

    Ronney Well-Known Member

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    I'm with Agmantoo on this one. If a pig is being reared for the table it should only ever have to have one worming in it's life and that's when it's weaned. If it's living area is clean, it's preferably allowed to free range and it is being fed well, by the time it's coming up for it's next worming it should be in the freezer.

    Breeding animals are a little different but even then, worming shouldn't have to happen frequently. Mine haven't been done for over a year and are in the pink.
    As Agmantoo states, the benefit from Ivomec is that it does both internal and external parasites. Beth, I have a friend who wormed her pigs the same way as you do. A few months back I was visiting for lunch and went to have a look at her pigs of which she was very proud. She had an older sow and it was a bloody disgrace - and that's putting in mildly. The sow had Sarcoptic Mange so badly that she had barely any hair left and her whole body was covered in bleeding lesions. It was obviously painful for her to move. I hit the roof and it was nearly the end of a friendship. I couldn't believe that this woman could see her pig as being healthy. The pig has since been given Ivomec but she is so bad that she is having to have it every 6 weeks although she is improving. The point is that she should never have been allowed to get to that state. Although herbal/organic/homeopathic remedies have their place, in modern farming practices they are better used in conjunction with commercial remedies rather than a stand-alone solution.

    Cheers,
    Ronnie
     
  10. bethlaf

    bethlaf Homegrown Family

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    ronnie, everyone is entitled to thier opinion ,
    and yes, in her case, obviously she didnt dust the animal with de ,
    de is effective for external pasasites, you put it in a shaker and dust them , or set up a dusting roll that they can rub against ,

    commercial remedies are not allowed under USDA organic practices, nor are they allowed under our certified naturally grown status,

    that being said, we are VERY cautious and rotate pasture, treat all new animals , dont feed raw foods, animals are allowed pasture and forage,

    adequate nutrition will enable ANY animal no matter how its going to be treated to handle a small pest load, poor nutrition allows parasites to grow and cause problems for the animal

    theres an integrated system on the farm for pest control, and no the DE wont work alone,
    if my animals werent allowed to get into the mud and roll , they wouldnt be happy, if the chickens couldnt fly into the pen and eat the flies, then i would have a preponderance of pests ....

    in this however its no different than the poisons others use, without fly and pest control and cleaning up excess feces, those things wont work well either ....because your animal will re infect itself continually,
    plus no matter what type of chemical wormer you use, if one worm doesnt die from it, it will breed a batch of babies that are resistant to that medication , at least with DE , because of its action , thats impossible an animal cant build up a resistance to it ,because its not chemical in its nature , its mechanical

    theres more than one way to skin a cat, i was just mentioning what works for us here at Running Water

    Im not trying to flame you or anything of the sort, just explaining , why we do what we do .
    Beth
     
  11. agmantoo

    agmantoo agmantoo Supporter

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    bethlaf .....I fully understand how diatomaceous earth works on hard shell bugs such as hog lice. I cannot understand how de can work on various types of worms as they do not have the shell. What am I missing here?
     
  12. Horace Baker

    Horace Baker Well-Known Member

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    My understanding is that DE only works externally on soft bodied insects, like aphids. On others, it works through ingestion from the inside out.

    We never worm pigs, as we routinely feed milk, which seems to have worm repelling properties.
     
  13. Matt NY

    Matt NY Well-Known Member

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    Vaccines aren't chemicals, as far as I know, not technically any way. OTOH I agree with you. Most of the "modern practices" as stated in another reply are used when there is overcrowding or the animal is kept in some unatural state. I feed my pigs wood ashes, that takes care of the round worms, etc. I don't let them on ground that had pigs the year before. I guess that most "modern" farm practices can't do this either. I try to do things in as natural a way as possible, but use chemicals or antibiotics if needed, no problem. I don't use them as a time saving device as is done in the "modern" way. I don't want to be organic, especially since it is government regulated. I also don't want to do things the agribusiness way. I try not to put blinders on and miss the obvious. I don't lock myself into one way of thinking about, or solving a problem. I try to read about old ways of doing things and new ways of doing them and try to pick the best from each.

    YMMV

    Good luck
     
  14. bethlaf

    bethlaf Homegrown Family

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    ag man , what do you think would happen to a worm in a blender????

    a single DE diatom looks for all intents and purposes like a ball of sharp glass , it causes massive damage to the worms , i know it works ive had fecals done on every animal i have ever used it on , and have had good reports back

    i have seen in my goats mangy looking poorly looking animals fed DE for 1 week , and in a couple of months these animals turn into something to behold !

    we just butchered one of our feeder pigs , and in cleaning him for sausage casings it was nice to not have a SINGLE worm or hole from the critters
    De works on fleas and ticks as well as aphidas and soft bodied insects, but it also works on cockroaches , flies, etc .

    you can google and do your own research on it
    but personally i swear by it, i use it mixedi n the dusting spot for my hens, mix it with feed for all the other animals
     
  15. Ronney

    Ronney Well-Known Member

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    Hi Beth,
    I didn't think for a minute you were flaming me and as you say, everybody is entitled to their own opinions and to go with what works well for them. And I'm sorry but nor did I realise you were organic which puts a slightly different perspective on things.

    As you say though, no matter which way one chooses to go, if it's not followed through with good management, all of it is a waste of time. As mentioned, I havn't wormed my pigs for over a year - they all free range and have access to a wallow. Unfortunately I have to do both my sheep and cattle at least twice a year because of Liver Fluke and no amount of management is going to get rid of that. After having lost one pregnant cow to it I'm not about to lose anymore.
    I don't worm my chooks either, they free-range for most of the day and their ark is also moved daily. Now that I think about it, I've never had health issues with my chooks :cool: When it boils down, I try to do the best for my stock that is going to keep them happy and healthy without over-killing on the commercial wormers. Like many things, they have their place.

    Which of course opens up another can of worms, at least in this country. We (as a nation) have over-drenched to the exent that worms have now built up a resistance to them - and I should say this is probably a world wide problem.

    Cheers,
    Ronnie