Worms, worms, yikes

Discussion in 'Goats' started by topside1, Nov 2, 2006.

  1. topside1

    topside1 Retired Coastie Supporter

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    Just got to tell you fine folks that I'm glad I'm raising goats. What a bunch of different characters. The only thing that drives me a bit nuts, is the worming issues of goats. At least once a week, worms are blamed for anything/everything on the forum. Half the time I am so confused it's maddening. Finally, I think I've got it. One of our veteran posters mentioned to look at the goats bottom eyelids, and if it's healthy bright pink to bright red the animal is not in need of worming. That's simple enough, even for an old timer like me. Cattle are easy to worm, and rarely complain about anything much. I am quite positive that I have been over worming my goats un-necessarily, or maybe not. At least now I have a simple gauge to work with. I guess I'm just learning, slowly but surely. So just listen to the folks with all the experience, they have been there....Go Goats!!!....Tennessee John
     
  2. Bearfootfarm

    Bearfootfarm Hello, hello....is there anybody in there.....? Supporter

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    Google FAMACHA and it explains this quite well. Ive pretty much stopped worming my sheep UNLESS they show signs of needing it and its been wonderful not wrestling with them every month or so.
     

  3. ForMyACDs

    ForMyACDs Well-Known Member

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    Even better is to take in a fecal sample to your vet (a mixture of goat berries from a few different animals in the herd or the ones you expect would be more likely to have worms)........do it twice a year to check your worm status.
     
  4. Alice In TX/MO

    Alice In TX/MO More dharma, less drama. Supporter

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    Our vet has goats, and he says most folks who treat for worms over do it.
     
  5. topside1

    topside1 Retired Coastie Supporter

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    Based on what I know now, I'm sure the herd will always be in tip top shape. Can't wait for the kidding to begin...Three more months!!! Tennessee John
     
  6. cricket

    cricket Well-Known Member

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    If your goat is showing symptoms, you may be too late. The reason the eyelids are white is because they are losing so much blood to an infestation of parasites. Period. By the time the mucous membranes are white, the damage has been done and that damage is permanent. When the worms attach to the intestinal walls they hook in. When they die (from worming or de) that hook tears out and leaves a perforation. As the perforation heals, it creates scar tissue...Scar tissue cannot absorb nutrients and will never go away. After repeating this cycle, eventually the goat cannot get enough nutrients and will die of "starvation" because they cannot process what they are eating.

    The safest thing is to have fecals run...and make sure the vet or whomever has a chambered slide. Otherwise they can only tell you there are parasites but not an accurate count. You can run these yourself but you have to have a microscope and the slide. The slides are fairly expensive, like $20 the last time I looked. And of course microscopes can be costly too.

    Barring fecals, many areas go by rain amount or simply time. For example, I know people that worm every 4" of rain. If I did that here, I would be worming every other day...LOL I worm on a time schedule instead. Talk to veteran goat people in your area and see what they do. If they are successfully raising goats and have for years, chances are that they know what they're doing.
     
  7. DocM

    DocM Well-Known Member

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    Worms are dependent on lots of factors - what your soil contains, what other animals you have, where you live, do your goats leave the farm (shows), stress. Starting with a fecal sample (or obtaining a microscope and learning to do them yourself) will give you an idea of what is prevalent on your own farm.

    I worm 2 or 3X a year, usually before breeding, before kidding, and about a month post kidding. Worming equals initial dose and a followup dose 10 days later. I worm all new to my farm goats. I use liquid ivomec for cattle, orally, at a rate of 1cc per 50 lbs of body weight. I use the type with added protection for lung worm, as it is common in this climate. My goats are exposed to a lot of stresses (colder climate, shows, milk production).

    Here's my own Wormer Primer:

    COVEXIN 8 is an 8 way clostridial vaccine used to vaccinate healthy
    cattle, sheep, & goats. With goats you need to give an initial 3cc
    dose (the first time you vaccinate) followed by a 3cc booster (some
    just give 2cc for the booster). It DOES contain tetanus. It DOES
    contain other clostridial diseases that goats & sheep can get such as
    black leg & red water.

    CYDECTIN is a pour on wormer for cattle. It is commonly used ORALLY
    in goats at the dosage of 1cc per 10-22 lbs.

    IVERMECTIN INJECTABLE is given ORALLY in goats at the dosage of 1cc
    per 50-55lbs. It does not kill tapes. If you are using ivermectin
    buy the Ivermec injectable (or the Ivermectin generic injectable)
    don't waste your money on the sheep drench - it is not strong
    enough. The injectable is a 1% solution and the drench is a 0.08%
    solution - so you have to give over 10 times the amount of drench as
    you do the injectable. Stay away from the horse wormers, they
    contain very little, are hard to accurately dose, and cost more per
    dose than anything else!

    SAFEGAURD, VALBAZEN, & SYNANTHIC are white wormers used commonly in
    goats to kill tape worms (used at 3x the cattle dosage for 3 days in
    a row). Valbazen should not be given to bred animals. Ivermectin &
    Cydectin DO NOT kill tapes.
     
  8. DocM

    DocM Well-Known Member

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    I should have added that my sheep are on the same schedule, except I use drench. My kids' 4H market animals end up being wormed three times between lambing and fair auction. (about 6 1/2 months)
     
  9. Jan in CO

    Jan in CO Well-Known Member Supporter

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    DocM, what type of wormer do you use on your sheep, if I may ask, and is it safe to use when they are pregnant? Thanks! Jan in Co
     
  10. mpillow

    mpillow Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I worm 3x yearly....and I use horse paste(1.87% ivermec) at double the goat wt
    along with pig paste/probiotics and seleniumE gel all on a piece of bread.....no need to wrestle the goat as they think they are being treated and no need for special equipment...I follow up at 10 days w/just wormer
     
  11. DocM

    DocM Well-Known Member

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    I use ivermectin drench.
     
  12. mtman

    mtman Well-Known Member

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    how about if you add 1# of de food grade to 50# of feed and feed it all the time what harm would that do
     
  13. Dee

    Dee Well-Known Member

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    My goats looked terrible. Fat tummies, boney hips and lice. I kept trying to worm them, knowing that was the problem but apparently I was under dosing. (Boer goats are heavier then the goat tape weight shows) Once I finally gave them the right dose (plus a cc just to be sure) and followed another dose 19 days later, they all put weight on again. I'm feeding less to keep them and actually, they are all fat now. So worms do cause alot of problems.
     
  14. mpillow

    mpillow Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No harm but I used DE and herbal wormer for 2 yrs and had worm related losses and poor growth :shrug:
     
  15. mare

    mare Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Doc M thanks for the advise on wormers---i just have one question--with the valbzen my vet said 2x's the cattle dose. i have a hard time getting that much in them how do you get 3x's in them? thanks Marilyn
     
  16. mare

    mare Well-Known Member Supporter

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    i've only used valbazen and epernix (?) but can i use ivermectin for the second dosing? i dont think i have to worry about tapes because when i've done my last fecals it just showed strongles. am a little nervous about the fecals though cuz the last time i had my dogs fecals done the vet said no worms and then a week later said it always doesnt show up in fecals---has any body else ever heard that? Marilyn
     
  17. mare

    mare Well-Known Member Supporter

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    oh and my vet told me to worm 4 weeks apart with the valbzen. ivermectin sounds like less of a hassel and expense!!!!!!!!!!!