Wiring 220 welder

Discussion in 'Shop Talk' started by Rob30, Dec 12, 2006.

  1. Rob30

    Rob30 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I just installed my 220 volt welder. Problem is it doesn't work.
    I ran two hot wires (red, black). I then connected the bare wire (ground). What am I missing? The white wire is not used because it is a three prong plug.
     
  2. Farmer Willy

    Farmer Willy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You're missing the white wire---the neutral line. The bare wire is to ground equipment. Unplug it and get it right so you don't hurt yourself.
     
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  3. fordy

    fordy Well-Known Member

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    ...................Borrow a volt meter capable of reading AC voltage . Measure between the two "flat" pins and you should have 240 volts . the rounded pin should be ground ! Measure between one flat pin and the neutral and you should show 120 volts . Take your measurements from the wall plug and then the correct wiring on the welder plug should the same . fordy.... :)
     
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  4. Rob30

    Rob30 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is no where for the neutral wire. This welder has a tree prong plug. Simular to a normal plug but larger. I have found some info on the wiring but nothing that shows me whit wrong with it. The ste I read stated to conect the 2 hot wires and the ground. I did that with no results.
     
  5. poorboy

    poorboy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    you need to git you an electician! :shrug:
     
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  6. rambler

    rambler Well-Known Member Supporter

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    NO!

    240 does not use the neutral wire at all.

    The black wire should be 120, the red wire should be 120 _relative_ to the neutral. To each other, the red & black wires should be 240.

    An electric stove or clothes drier might use the neutral wire plus one of the hot wires to make 120v for clocks, lights, controls.

    But, a welder probably doesn't use 120v, and has no need for the white nwutral wire.


    As to the problem, you need to hook up a meter & figure out what is wrong.

    You did use a 240v breaker to feed to the welder, right? The black & white wire are coming from the 2 different sides of the breaker?

    Your 'y' shaped plug end would be wired right - 2 hots (black & red) and a ground (green or bare). Do they both have 120v, and are they on different legs of the breaker?

    --->Paul
     
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  7. idahodave

    idahodave Well-Known Member

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    Where did you get the source of the 240?

    Did you add a breaker?

    I think Paul's got it...you have both of the hot wires connected to the same side of the incoming power, so there's no difference between them.

    Or the welders bad.
     
  8. comfortablynumb

    comfortablynumb Well-Known Member

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    my 220 stick welder works fine, with a 50 amp wire on a 50 amp 220 breaker.

    the plug has 3 slots, the wire diagram that came with it clearly said a red, a black, a white nuetral and a ground to the receptical box.

    the plug runs off 2 hots and a nuetral center. the ground connects to the recepticle plate.

    works very well. no neutral will get you killed. the current needs a clear path t go back to in the circuit. the flow will end up going thru YOU and the stick if you touch a live stinger.

    thats why you aslo ground the thing you are welding with a seperate clamp/cable.

    you NEVER EVER leave a white neutral not connected!

    the welder might be dead, take it to someone who ha a 220 plug already wired and try it.

    the center prong on the plug is always the neutral.

    be careful you can fry yourself! you might want to find an electrician for 5 min to hook the receptile up right.
     
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  9. TnAndy

    TnAndy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Wrong, sir.

    A 220-240v circuit does not need a neutral UNLESS you have something in the appliance that uses one leg of the 220v in a 110v capacity.....such as a dryer that has a 110v motor or timer, or a stove that has a little 110v clock.

    ALL electric water heaters use a 2 conductor wire, like 10-2, for a 220v service because they only have heating elements and no need for a 110v leg.

    220v uses two 110v "hot" legs.....they are in different 'phases', that is, one leg is hot 1/60 of a second, and the other is hot the next 1/60 of a second.....the leg that is hot for any given 1/60 uses the OTHER leg as it's 'neutral'.

    THAT is why you have a 3 wire plug on a welder.....there is no 110v being used. But on a dryer or stove ( clock timer ) you now have to use a 4 prong plug....technically, the neutral that is required in that case cannot be on the same terminal as the ground, even though there are millions of older 3 prong plugs that do exactly that, the newer electrical code says no uninsulated conductor ( the ground ) can be a permanent source of use....like as a neutral.....even though electrically, it will work just fine.

    The wire you needed for your welder should have been a 2 conductor wire with a ground. Since you already have the 3 conductor wire in place, you can run the white to the ground plug if you want, or just not use it at all......as long as you do have a ground wire connected to the ground terminal on the plug.

    As was stated above, if you measure 220 between the hot terminals on the plug ( the flat blade openings ) and 110v between hot terminals and the ground, you have it wired correctly. If don't get 220v between the two hot terminals, but DO get 110v between the hot and ground, you have it wired incorrectly at the panel.....though if you put a standard 2 pole breaker in the panel, this would be about impossible to do...you would have really had to work at it. :D

    If the welder doesn't work after you check the power at the plug, you have some OTHER problem ( like in the welder ).
     
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  10. agmantoo

    agmantoo agmantoo Supporter

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    Rob30, as stated in your first post you have the 3 wires correct. However, If there is anything on the welder that requires 120volts for it to function, then the welder will NOT function. If there is a need for the 120 volts then you need to have a 4 wire setup. It is assumed that one each supply wire(red,black) is connected to L1 and the other to L2 in the panel.
     
  11. fordson major

    fordson major construction and Garden b Supporter

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    just came from the shop changing out the power on the lincolin 225 (box was split in two)! three wires too the plug powering the lincolin are black, red sides, white middle (round spade) ground too box. this is the way the plug is wired and works!
     
  12. crafty2002

    crafty2002 Well-Known Member

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    There is 120 volts used in a welder. It's called the fan which is a 120 volt motor.
    A couple of them is probably right, he has both the red and black wires connected to the same leg in the breaker box.
    If you look into the box you will see that the two supply bars that the breakers fit on have finger that interchange from one side to the other.
    Every two consecutive fingers, (for the lack of a better word) is from both legs. If you wire it from two seperate 120 breakers that are on the same leg, you still only have 120 volts.
    A double pole breaker will get both legs and cannot be put in wrong.
     
  13. idahodave

    idahodave Well-Known Member

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    I found a plug wiring diagram on the Lincoln site. Two hots and a ground, no neutral.

    Rob's welder cooling fan runs off 240.

    I agree that if Rob has a double breaker it's pretty hard (impossible?) to get both sides connected to the same phase. But if he has two seperate breakers he could have assumed the left side of the panel is one side of the line and the right side the other.

    Rob, do you have a meter or test light?

    Is there a schematic pasted inside the back panel?
     
  14. TnAndy

    TnAndy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Double pole breakers are generally two single pole breaker hooked together.....sometimes they use a little metal 'tab' deal so when it trips either pole, it is supposed to pull the other pole out in the trip position as well....but some brand ( and I can't remember which ) I ran into once, the metal connector between the two was sorta flimsy, and you COULD actually have one pole not making contact inside while the other was......

    THIS is why you need a meter at the plug.
     
  15. hunter63

    hunter63 Well-Known Member

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    You don't have a 3 phase service do you?
    Tha breaker boxes are different on where the legs are if you do.
     
  16. Rob30

    Rob30 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have figured out with your help how to wire it. It is wired properly. So there must be a prblem with the breaker. It is double poled, but I only know that one side works for sure.
    I will test the conections tomorrow.
     
  17. GREENCOUNTYPETE

    GREENCOUNTYPETE Moderator Staff Member

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    three wires too the plug powering the lincolin are black, red sides, white middle (round spade) ground too box.

    Just the way it should be

    and a mig welder would definitly use the 120 for the relay and the wire feed

    but yes you should own a volt meter go get one and test to get it right
    becaus wrong makes fires

    it would probably work fine the way you stated without the white just the ground but i bet a beer that if both your hot wire are indeed hot and comming direct from the 240 breaker
    then your ground wire is not hooked up properly
    becaus in a reidential feed all of your grounds and commons terminate to the same block in the breaker box but you hook to common and not the ground because no one ever feels good about that tingle then they touch the grounded work bech, lamp or other metal grounded apliance

    what part of california you in i have a cusin thats and electricial in san deago

    yes i realize i have spelled that wrong but stopped caring a long time ago
     
  18. arbutus

    arbutus Well-Known Member

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    With 220 V both legs are IN phase, but are opposite polarity.
    At Time = 0 both voltages are 0
    At time = 1/240 second the voltage on L1 =110 and the voltage on L2 = -110
    At time = 2/240 second the voltage on L1 = 0 and the voltage on L2 = 0
    At time = 3/240 second the voltage on L1 = -110 and the voltage on L2 = 110
    At time = 4/240 second the voltage on L1 = 0 and the voltage on L2 = 0

    4/240 of a second is 1/60 second and the process repeats. The voltages on L1 and L2 are IN PHASE but are opposite polarity.
     
  19. Rob30

    Rob30 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I fixed it. The problem was I was not getting any electricity out of one pole of the breaker. I had to get another breaker. Hooked it up to the other hot bar. Works great.
    Thanks everybody.
     
  20. rambler

    rambler Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That is something I knew of, but never quite 'got it' before. I knew 120 & 240 were both 1phase, but..... Somehow your short explination made sense, thanks.

    --->Paul