Winter snotty noses

Discussion in 'Goats' started by Dee, Jan 8, 2005.

  1. Dee

    Dee Well-Known Member

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    Every year I ask this question with the hope that someone can help me.

    I have Boers. As explained to me, they have long flat noses that can make it hard for them to breath. Every winter, they get dried, brown boogers stuck in their noses that in order for them to breath, I have to pick their noses. Yes, YUCK! :eek: One in particular is worse then the others. She also ends up having some cracks and sorness because of this, sometimes panting to get air. Needless to say, this problems makes it hard for them to take in air and thus, they will cough.

    First I have to clean off the nostrils inside. Then there is usually a "plug" just before the nasel passage that needs to be taken out. You can see they can breath easier once done.

    I have tried coating inside their noses with Vaseline, tried that RX for goats, even a cold sore medication (which seems to sooth the one's nose) Wash cloths are too thick for get into the nostrils, the baby wipe type product is great but has a smell to it (the one I used is a natural enzyme that is for pets. They changed the formula so now it smells flowery) Paper towels are to fragile. I was thinking maybe some kind of handy wipe. But you know, it's just easier to give it a quick pick and get it over with.

    Since this is really bad in the winter (some will have it occasionally during the rest of the year but not picking bad) I guess it has to do with them being inside more but my shed isn't dusty at all, enough ventilation. I feed hay all year.

    One more thing, these does are all related. I understand that the founding father had it. The worst one is a bred back baby (father and grandfather are the same goat) and she also had a respitory problem when she was little.

    Sooo, any thoughts, any advice will be welcomed. Oh, by the way, six different vets have seen them and didn't seem worried at all about it. One suggested that it may be herpies but that was all that was said. The latest one was the one who said they have the flat shaped noses.
     
  2. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    Have you ever used injectable Ivermectin at label dosages on them before fall? Nosebots used to be quite common out here, we don't see them or ticks like we used to. Nosebots are tiny nats that lay their eggs in the nose of the goat, it forms a waxy like dark brown soot, that builds up in the corner of the nose and clogs the nose. You have to use the Ivermectin to kill the larve. The goats sneeze the eggs that hatch onto the ground then they crawl around and become the flying nats that infect the goat and on and on and on.

    I would inject the Ivermectin, use T tree oil and perhaps Lavender something medicinal to clean the nose out, throwing away the papertowles with the brown snot in it. Oh, perhaps campophneic...don't know how to spell that. You couldn't use an insecticide obviously, but do you get the idea? Then repeat in 10 day cycles for 3 times to break the cycle.

    Flat noses in Nubians aren't the problem, it's the huge roman nose, you will always have more snotty icky noses when you have lots of breed character like this.

    If this is just a winter time problem it makes no sense that this is a structural problem with the goats. Vicki
     

  3. Sondra

    Sondra Guest

    I want to elaborate just abit on Vicki's suggestion of tea tree oil or lavender. Tea Tree or Eucalyptus essiental oils or even orange oil would be the best for this, however mix a few drops in with a Vegetable oil. I wouldn't use Tea Tree oil full strength on the inside of the nose as could cause irritation but will work good if you mix it. I use a mixer of all three plus lavender, citranella, and lemon grass oils, with witch hazel , water and veg oil to spray my rabbits ears for mites. rather than using ivormectin on the rabbits.
     
  4. Dee

    Dee Well-Known Member

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    I treat with Ivermectin every fall since I ALWAYS get lice from the deer at that time.

    Also, the Vet RX is effective for treating ear mites so... (also temporarily relieving respiratory infections, colds, coughhs, wheezing and sniffles by opening nasal passages for easier breathing) You can smell the camphor in it. I really don't think it is mites. However, I will take some to the vet to have a look see.

    At least it's not green runny stuff.

    I used Tea Tree oil for ringworm once. They really don't like the smell at all. All well, I will try it with the veggie oil. Can't hurt at this point. Come to think of it, we have some wipes with Tea Tree I've been selling to people with dogs that have cronic ear infections. Should follow my own advice :rolleyes:

    Vicki, these are Boers, not Nubian. No Roman noses. Compared to the Alpines that they first came from (foundation stock of my girls) they do look really flat.
     
  5. Galloping Goats

    Galloping Goats Active Member

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    I have 5 does in the barn and 2 of them have this same problem. I really don't want to keep having to pick goat boogers so I am very interested in a solution. If it is mites wouldn't all of them have them?
     
  6. Sondra Peterson

    Sondra Peterson Well-Known Member

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    Vicki did not suggest mites she suggested
    So no not every goat would necessarily have them.
    another thing to check on is kneel down in their bedding, get down and smell it. Does your knee get damp?? does it smell like amonina?? This during winter time causes alot of running noses and also contributes to lung problems and pneumonia.
     
  7. Dee

    Dee Well-Known Member

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    I was stating that "the Vet RX treats mites so..." Most stuff that treats mites will also treat other insect problems. I meant to say bots. I was using the Ivermectin to treat lice, which will also treat mites, bots, ticks, scabies, etc. So, I do not think that it is bots BUT I will take a sample to the vet to have a look see. I was even thinking of going right to Cornell with this instead of continuing with all these vets.

    I keep them as ammonia free as possible. Wood ashes/lime, wood chips to absorb moisture, then first cut hay for bedding on top (as well as the grass hay they don't eat) Ventilation in the eves and roof, cross open doors. When it was nice out last week, I took about 8 inches off the top, then rebedded dry. I am VERY aware of that possiblity since someone who was watching them for me kept the door closed and I had problems when I came home. (The doe that is the worst)

    Their noses aren't runny as caked, dry. Again, they will have it during the rest of the year, but not as bad as in the winter. It will clear up alot in the Spring.
     
  8. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    Not a clue then. I know if we gave the Ivermectin injected before fall set in, than the bots themselves did not lay eggs, and start the cycle. Once someone had nosebots, it like lice was a treatment with another treatment, I think every 21 days like with lice, since some are hatching all the time.

    Sondra, thanks for the explination on the essential oils, I use Tea Tree oil and Lavender in my dogs rinse after shampooing. One of my shihtzu gals has the worst smelling skin, skin scrapings or anything has helped this, but the rinse has worked some. The eucalyptus (my favorite asthma scent I use soap and lotion with this in it) is a wonderful idea, and I like your spray idea also, this would be great with witch hazel for ears! Cleaning and disenfecting in one.

    As with any herdwide problem the solution is usually something staring you in the face. Our copper issue caused all our worm problems, most of our staph on our udder problems including and overgrowth in some of our does that ended in phemphgus all over hocks and dewclaws.....the excessive protein I fed my goats because books say to feed them 16% protein, caused urinary calculi, urine scald, overgrown hooves in my herd. Something goes on in your herd differently during the winter than any other time, being trapped in the barn during the winter may tell you that something is going on in the barn (something as simple as the dust/cobwebs in the barn where the mites live, dusty hay? Powdery feed? Do they change oils in the grain to linseed oil? Taking nose scrapings is a wonderful idea, at least this way you would know. I don't worry about some runny nose, or even a weepy eye or two during the winter since they never progress to much, the girls have very good immunity, so the normal pasturella that would be diagnosed from testing some runny nose or eye buggers, would not progress to pnemonia. But crusty buggers each year would make me try to figure out what is going on! Good luck with this and keep us posted, would love to find out what this is. With my best friend having Alpines, it did perk my interest when you mentioned they came from Alpines. Vicki
     
  9. Ken in Maine

    Ken in Maine Well-Known Member

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    Try a little KY Jelly. I get terribly dry nostrils in the winter... to the point of nosebleed. The Doctor recommended KY Jelly ( okay stop laughing) in each nostril. Keeps them moist. Regular works just fine... you don't need the " instant warming type......
     
  10. MoBarger

    MoBarger Goat's Milk soap for sale

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    I have had my nose stuck in goat books the past week or so. I read that snotty noses could be due to Vit A deficiency, can't remember if that was Dr Mary Smith's book or Raising Meat Goats. I think it is the latter.
     
  11. Dee

    Dee Well-Known Member

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    Vitamin A? Worth a try.

    I sent an e-mail to someone in Cornell who sent my note to a Dr. Pelzer at a Veternarian College in Virginia.

    He said: Going on the description and the extent of
    the problem I suspect that the goats all have similar nose structure.
    Since all the goats have a similar nose they are all likely to have
    the same problem. I suspect that the problem is that the size of the
    nares, the opening, is small. When the animals eat, dust gets stuck
    on the natural amount of mucus the nose secretes. This dust mucus
    builds up and so you can now hear the goats breath. as the nares gets
    occluded, the velocity of air going through increases and pieces of
    the yuck break off and are sucked into the back of the throat causing
    them to cough once in a while. The tissues under the yuck get
    irritated from the build up of stuff and can cause a mild dermatitis
    which increases the area for the skin to crack, seep serum and then
    colle t dust and the cycle repeats itself. So what is the solution:
    1. Wipe their noses periodically
    2. Feed feeds that have a lower dust content. grain mixes with molasses.
    3. Try bedding with more straw/bad hay and less pine/saw dust.

    I hope this helps.

    Oh, by the way, my buck, who is housed in his own pen and is not related to the does, does not have this problem. I also noticed that his nose is shaped different from my girls. They seem to have their nostrils more on the top of their muzzles as to his being more of a triangle pointing down. He might have a little gunk every now and then but it doesn't plug up his nose like they do.
     
  12. MoBarger

    MoBarger Goat's Milk soap for sale

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    Who did you contact at Cornell?
    From breeding seminars I have gone to, proper boer noses/faces are actually more convex, _almost_ but not exactly like the roman look of a nubian.
     
  13. Dee

    Dee Well-Known Member

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    A Susan Schoenian from Maryland. I had pulled up a listing of people who put together stuff for meat goats from Cornell. I picked her name because she also raised goats (but seemed more into sheep after talking to her) I asked her if she couldn't help, could she send me to someone who could. Got a really quick response from both of them. Nice people.

    My goats are not pure Boers. Have gotten my kids to 15/16 but I believe that maybe the foundation stock was line bred too often since there really weren't too many pure bucks here in the beginning. I know two of my does have the same father and grandfather. (one of them has the biggest problem)

    What do you mean by convex? Mine look more like camel noses, on top and flat.