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This is a very large part of why I hate hunting season:

"New York Deer Hunter Kills Toddler With Stray Bullet"
SWAN LAKE, N.Y. — An upstate toddler was killed by a stray bullet when a New York City deer hunter fired his rifle too close to her grandparents' Hudson Valley home.

Edward Taibi, 45, of Queens was being held without bail Monday after arraignment on a second-degree manslaughter charge in the town of Bethel court. Taibi was hunting from a tree stand Sunday afternoon in rural Sullivan County when he shot a deer. He came down from the stand and fired the .30-caliber rifle again about 400 feet away from a trailer home in Swan Lake, a small community just south of the Catskill Mount ains.

The bullet hit 16-month-old Charly Skala in the upper body. She was flown to Westchester Medical Center, where she died. Police said the child's parents live in nearby Woodburne.​

Every year I read stories like this. Hunters shooting hunters. Hunters shooting innocent bystanders. Hunters shooting horses, cattle, pigs, dogs, etc. Usually accidentally although a couple of years ago a hunter purposefully sighted on a farmer on his tractor, pulled the trigger and killed the farmer. The hunter got off with a minimal sentence of just a couple of years. Another hunter in our state recently shot a berry picker and claimed he thought the person was a black bear. He found the person, still alive, and abandoned them to die. That hunter got off with a minimal two year sentence too. Another man was shot during deer season while he was sitting in his living room - a stray bullet came through the wall of his house and lodged in his neck. Every year innocent bystanders die because of careless hunters.

I'm not against hunting at all. I do I post my land and I allow selected hunters I know to hunt. I own guns and I kill for food. Hunting and guns aren't the issue.

I am against are the deaths of innocent bystanders.

I am against the huge amount of trash left behind by hunters (mostly whiskey & beer bottles).

I am against the killing of our dogs (six to date) by hunters.

I am against the hunters who cruise slowly by our house and fields despite the fact that we have clearly and heavily posted our land for over a mile in either direction on both sides of the road.

I am against those people I catch each year shooting from their vehicles on the road into or across our livestock fields.

I am against the killing of livestock that happens every year by hunters.

I am against fact that the hunters endanger our lives making it hard for us to be outdoors in the fields and woods where we work - we can't just stop farming and homesteading for months out of the year because they want to run around shooting off their guns.

I am against the deer jacking that goes on.

I am against the property damage to our gates and roads done by hunters.

I am against trespassing.

Worst of all the government takes a slap on the wrist approach to these bad apples. If they pickup a gun and kill someone they should forever lose their hunting license and right to own guns. They should have to make reparations times three. They should have to go to prison for a serious numbers of years, not just a piddling one or two. There should be very significant consequences even for accidental killings never mind the purposeful ones.

When I point my gun I make sure I know what the gun is pointed at and what is beyond that target. I know where my bullet will go. There is no excuse for the crime of accidental murder by hunters and even less excuse for the intentional bad acts by the bad apples.

If someone hunts, or drives or what ever, they need to take full responsibility for the consequences of their actions. If you are going to hunt I implore you to do it responsibly. take a hunter safety course. Follow the rules. Only hunt where you have explicit permission. Know EXACTLY what your target is. Know where your bullet will go if you miss. Take responsibility and give aid if you shoot someone. Get your deer but don't shoot dogs, livestock or people. When you pick up that weapon you are shouldering a tremendous responsibility.

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org
 

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Its because too many people like my one friend think that its impossible to know where the bullet goes if you miss and they can't understand responsibility. Last week there was someone hunting in the woods where I work, but I work in what is still city limits and the houses are so close together, even with the wooded area, that he had to be violating the safety zone but no one seemed to care.
 

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What you are against are "slobs", and I bet you are against slobs in just about every pursuit.

Slobs are the ones that are always looking for the easy way out, or the way to horn in on someone else's hard work.

There are slob hunters and slob fishermen and slob citizens and slob you-name-it.

I agree with you, I've quit hunting with several different people during my life because I won't go to the woods with a slob.
 

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What you are against are "slobs", and I bet you are against slobs in just about every pursuit.

Slobs are the ones that are always looking for the easy way out, or the way to horn in on someone else's hard work.

There are slob hunters and slob fishermen and slob citizens and slob you-name-it.

I agree with you, I've quit hunting with several different people during my life because I won't go to the woods with a slob.
Amen,you said it all. They are slobs dressed in respectable hunters clothes.Im against all those things to and Im a hunter. Eddie
 

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To have a license in NYS, one has to take a safety course, but every yr the same stupid accidents happen, people just need common sense when handling a gun. If a person does not know where the bullet is going to hit, they just shouldn't pull the trigger.. Eventually NY will be all shot gun.
 

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The way to cut down, you'll never stop it, on slob "hunters" is to pass laws like MO has, or at least used to have. In MO get caught doing some of the things mentioned here and you lose just about everything you are using for "hunting". That means your rifle/shotgun as well your truck, your camper, your generator sitting back in your camp site. All on top of paying stiff fines and court cost.
 

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Hunters from the big cities really concern me. I live down by the Lake of Ozarks in Missouri and we have a lot of hunters who come down from Kansas City ans just act like idiots. There isn't a lot that can be done except keep a eye out for them. People like this hurt all hunters:flame:.
 

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I agree with everything said except calling them hunters... they are nothing more than idiots running around the woods with a gun. They just happen to have purchased a hunting license. To me, calling them hunters is akin to the local yahoo spinning the tires at every stop sign, a race car driver.
 

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I suspect a lot of the stupidity would be cut down if it were made illegal to hunt and drink at the same time -- I mean, you can't drink and drive, why can you drink and discharge a firearm?

Plus, if they can't drink while hunting, a lot of the idiots would just stay home.

)
 

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does any body know where you can find consolidated stats for hunting accidents.
i know generally more people die from falling out of tree stands and heart attacks. i also noticed we don't hear an awful lot of stories like this in the news in southern states that don't have a minimum hunting age and long gun seasons. i'd like to see if my observation is accurate or if it's just lack of news coverage.
 

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does any body know where you can find consolidated stats for hunting accidents.
The ones I've seen have hunting safer than tennis, swimming and other activities. It's just that a toddler getting shot by a hunter and a toddler drowning in bucket or thrown through a windshield doesn't make as good of a news story. "Toddler aspirates on own vomit and dies in hospital due to medical mistake" doesn't sell papers like "toddler shot and killed at birthday party by hunter".
 

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I feel for the parents of this child. Nothing said or done can replace the loss of a child. Sadly, one irresponsible person does more damage to the reputation than the safe practices of 1000 law abiding hunters. I, myself, won't even venture out during opening day of gun season anymore. Too many wannabes out there with itchy trigger fingers.
 

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MmmHmm, I agree with the distain and understand the rage.

Here we've got minimalistic laws and regulations governing the hunters, and those were rolled back, making poaching and such much easier to get away with. Hunters no longer have to wear a back tag for example.

If only the punishment for poaching and reckless endangerment or manslaughter while hunting were scaled to fit the crime. Sadly, they are not.

Interesting sidebar, this state has the mandatory hunter safety training as well. Back when I took it, I was lucky, my facility also had a field trial. This is when they take the class into the woods and run different scenarios and ask if you'd take the shot or not. The ones who would take the bad shots? The cops and active duty military personnel taking the course. :-( Almost without exception they were willing to take stupid dangerous shots.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The ones I've seen have hunting safer than tennis, swimming and other activities. It's just that a toddler getting shot by a hunter and a toddler drowning in bucket or thrown through a windshield doesn't make as good of a news story. "Toddler aspirates on own vomit and dies in hospital due to medical mistake" doesn't sell papers like "toddler shot and killed at birthday party by hunter".
Wow. You really missed the point. These slob hunters are trespassing onto our posted property. They're trashing our place. They KILL people. It is irrelevant what the comparable risks are between tennis and hunting. The kill rate of people, dogs and livestock from hunters should be ZERO. Hunters should ALWAYS know exactly what their target is, only shoot at VALID prey targets and ALWAYS know where their bullet will go if they miss. Comparative statistics is just an exercise in ignoring the problem.

By the way, latest hunting accident: One hunter shot another hunter who was sitting on a tree stump using an animal call. The hunter on the tree stump was using a MOOSE call. The hunter who shot the sitting hunter claims he thought the sitting hunter was a BEAR. It was, drum roll please, MOOSE season NOT bear season. This is an example of: Invalid target (known), Poaching (out of season for bear), Failure to identify target (man not bear or moose).​

Lastly, the punishment for these 'errors' needs to be proportional. Currently these 'hunters' are getting off with just a slap on the wrist.

Your attitude, Quint, is a prime cause of the problem. You should be ashamed. People like you are why hunting will eventually be banned. If we don't eliminate the bad apples and make sure hunting is done responsibly then the vast majority of citizens will VOTE to ban hunting except possibly in far distant hunting parks. Be part of the solution, don't excuse the problem.
 

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I hunt and am a hunting safety instuctor in New York. Im against slobs too. Any chance I have I will go far out of my way to turn them in If I witness any violation. Many of my contemporaries will do the same. It is our responsibility to police our own ranks. There are NO hunting accidents. There are violations and crimes. Unfortunately some morons never learn.
 

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I do not hunt in fact I have never shot a gun. I do want to learn to hunt. I was raised in a country with gun control laws and I find that I have a lot more respect for weapons than a lot of other people I know including some local 'hunters'. I tend to agree with the idea that having a gun and a license does not make you a hunter. A hunter knows the rules and abides by them. It scares me every year to see how many people get injured/killed and how the 'hunters' get off scot free. Hunting requires an awful lot of responsibility and humility because you are taking life and need to repect that power. I get really ticked off at the people who trophy hunt and instead of doing what is best for the wildlife and culling the animals that should be culled take out the buck that is in its prime that would strengthen the herd genes. I could go on for days about this issue.
 

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I suspect a lot of the stupidity would be cut down if it were made illegal to hunt and drink at the same time -- I mean, you can't drink and drive, why can you drink and discharge a firearm?

Plus, if they can't drink while hunting, a lot of the idiots would just stay home.

)
Who drinks while hunting?? I have NEVER known anyone who is a real hunter to drink & hunt. No one with a brain would ever do such a thing.
 

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Who drinks while hunting?? I have NEVER known anyone who is a real hunter to drink & hunt. No one with a brain would ever do such a thing.
No one with a brain would shoot at a blue merle australian shepherd walking in a campground on a leash, either. The fact that they weren't real hunters and were dumb drunk didn't stop the fact that I -- or my dog -- could have been killed that day.

(They missed. Scared me out of ten years of my life. Weren't even apologetic. They shouted at me that I shouldn't have been walking a dog during deer hunting season -- they thought they were shooting a stray, yadda yadda. I was in a CAMPGROUND. With the dog. On a leash.)

It's not the "real hunters" who drink.

But there's a certain subset of hunters, at least in my area, who show up at hunting camp with a couple coolers of beer after partying hearty the night before. They sit in their stand with a couple six packs. They drink a couple with lunch.. After dark, they get so stinking drunk they're still intoxicated when they roll out of bed at noon the next day. On Sunday night, they drive home and everyone else plays dodge-the-drunks on the highway.

And they have guns.

Basically, a hunting trip for them is a great excuse for a weekend long party.

I would not be at all surprised to find that many of the hunting accidents we hear about involved alcohol. Not all, but many.
 

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I live in northern wisconsin,way more trees and animals than people,we have tons of weekend warriors up here all the time and te level of stupidity that city dweller show is amazing.They assume once there out of the city anything goes,they'll post thier 20 or 40 acres then tresspass on somebody elses.These are also the one's who sit in the tavern all day then try to hunt that afternoon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Who drinks while hunting?? I have NEVER known anyone who is a real hunter to drink & hunt. No one with a brain would ever do such a thing.
You can't say real hunters vs slobs. The problem is people out there with guns. They are defined as hunters, slob hunters, what ever you want. The fact is they are out there, trigger happy and a menace to those of us who live and work out in the countryside. The reality is the number of beer cans & whisky bottles on the side of the road shoots up by orders of magnitude during hunting season. Somebody is consuming all that alcohol. It is during hunting season. Alcohol + Guns + Idiots --> dead people, dogs and livestock hilled by 'hunters'. Call them what you want but you're just hiding the problem behind words.
 
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