White List - Fact or fiction?

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by alidansma, Jan 5, 2007.

  1. alidansma

    alidansma Well-Known Member

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    I was looking at the gardening forum, which led me to peek over at the heirloom seed companies and on the links page for Baker Creek Seed Company:The No White List Coalition

    I cannot believe how incredibly stupid things are getting. Not too long ago I could have never believed such a thing...but now... :shrug:
     
  2. tchan

    tchan Well-Known Member

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    I saw that too. I am not sure if it is too be taken lightly or seriously. The way things are going now it is crazy. I can't believe that Americans would allow something like this to happen. And if it to be taken seriously what do you do? Move out of the country? To where?
     

  3. Windy in Kansas

    Windy in Kansas In Remembrance

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    I'm not quite sure of what I'm reading because of the way it was presented.

    I fully believe that ALL PLANT MATERIAL should be evaluated and scrutinized before being allowed onto US soil.

    I cringe with I hear of some traveler sneaking plant seeds home with them from a foreign country or for that matter from state to state. On occasion I also hear of someone that got heirloom seed, etc. from some well intentioned person from another country. Some turn out to be great heirloom introductions, other turn into pest weeds.

    Many of the plants noxious weed departments fight today are livestock feedstuffs of old.

    I'm reminded of bamboo, quite controllable in certain conditions while others despise it and fight it tooth and nail as a pest crop when grown in their areas conditions.

    Kudzu, need I say more as an introduction gone awry?
     
  4. haypoint

    haypoint Unpaid, Volunteer Devil's Advocate Supporter

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    I believe dandilons and English sparrows were introduced. Look at the mess Austrailia has made of things with the introduction of the Rabbit and the Cane Toad. A few years ago, the Emerald Ash Borer came to Michigan in some Asian pallet wood. So far it's killed 20,000,000 Ash trees and has spred to three states. Non-native plants, insects and animals pose great dangers.
     
  5. tnhomestead

    tnhomestead Well-Known Member

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    KUDZU!!!
    TUMBLEWEEDS!!!
    good reasons to screen
     
  6. Mountaineer

    Mountaineer Well-Known Member

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    It's NAIS for gardeners.
    Do you think that anyone who doesn't keep livestock actually cares about your rights as a farmer/homesteader with NAIS?

    People are quick to jump on the legislation bandwagon. I don't get it. Kudzo is already here. Pretty much every weed known is already here.

    What are they ACTUALLY trying to do then? I think anyone who grows their own food should be upset.
     
  7. haypoint

    haypoint Unpaid, Volunteer Devil's Advocate Supporter

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    How dare the Government impede my God given right to introduce any plant I want! The founding fathers sought limited government because they wanted to protect my rights as an American citizen to alter the eco-system of North America any way I see fit.
    By the way, I've got some TB infected deer that I'd like to trade for some CWD Elk. Also have some Round-Up Ready Amaranth seeds I'll exchange for your Tobacco Mozaic virus tomato seeds.
    We don't need no stinking restrictions, unless it says Monsanto on it. Then, we should crush their plans like an Asian Longhorned Beetle under the boot of Democracy!
     
  8. haypoint

    haypoint Unpaid, Volunteer Devil's Advocate Supporter

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  9. Wanda

    Wanda Well-Known Member

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    Would thease beatles be good food for the asian bighead carp that I am raising down by the river :shrug:
     
  10. zealot

    zealot Soli Deo Gloria

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    I know that nonnative plants can be a problem, but sometimes I wonder just how many of our supposedly native plants were always native, and not brought here by Indians, Vikings, or other early explorers.
     
  11. alidansma

    alidansma Well-Known Member

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    There is a lot about this that bothers me, first off who decides if a plant is or isn't a pest. I want to grow dandelions! I went to the park and gathered dandelion seeds. Am I a criminal for contributing to the distribution of an invasive plant? Another good example is cottonwood trees. They are considered an invasive pest in my area, but they also grow quick and are a good temporary fix for an area where people need quick shade (besides the goats love the leaves)
    I live in the desert, we have very few "native" species in this area If I was a plant purist I would starve to death! People don't normally farm in the desert for a reason, but I am willing to bend the rules of nature (by providing water, preventing rabbits from feasting and occasionally providing a little shade when needed) so that plants can grow in my yard. Is that wrong?


    This is what really bothers me. Most people don't care what laws are passed because it doesn't affect them directly. They live in the metro area, watch sitcoms and eat Twinkies and pizza every day. They just want life to keep going nice and easy. They feel good when the laws are passed to keep your food supply "safe" :flame: but the motive behind the laws has NOTHING to do with helping people, it only has to do with helping companies. Who thinks that engineered crops will be excluded from testing? (kind of like with NAIS) The stuff that is really dangerous will be exempt, because it would just be too hard on our food supply to mess with that stuff now. But they are going to keep an eye on little people and pounce all over them to keep the world safe. They will be looking busy stomping on mice to protect people while the wolves slip in.
    Is that too dramatic? Am I being silly?

    People don't think of plants as mobile (well I know you guys know better) but really they grow where they can. Now companies come along and ruin the area where plants can grow and the only thing approved (assumed?) safe for the area is some plant that these people own the rights to - and if you grow it without their permission.... oh boy :shrug:

    What it seems they are really doing is protecting their product list from competition. Maybe I am reading it wrong, maybe I need another cup of coffee, but it seems the more information I come across the more depressed and discouraged I get...
     
  12. Mountaineer

    Mountaineer Well-Known Member

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    It's not as simple as you suggest. You obviously don't grow your own food. Or, you are simply willing to GET IN LINE to get your government issued GMO corn seeds.
     
  13. haypoint

    haypoint Unpaid, Volunteer Devil's Advocate Supporter

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    I know it would be easier to dismiss my comments if I didn't grow my own food, but I do and have for a long time. As seems to happen in these discussions, a blend of fear of the government and a refusal to focus on the real issue. This isn't about restricting what you are planting, it is a restriction on a willy-nilly importation of plants that we know little about. A number of years ago, diseased grape vine cuttings were imported into the US. This wiped out thousands of acres of vineyards and has limited the varieties I can grow to those that are resistant to that disease. Several aquatic species have made their way into the great Lakes by riding in the bilge of ships, sea lamprey have adapted to fresh water and kill millions of game fish each year. zebra mussels collect and grow around water outlets and inlets, requiring costly removal. More recently, diseased fish were introduced to Lake Erie, resulting in a fish die off in the millions and a quarantine of all live fish in the Great Lakes. This has put many small wholesale bait farms out of business.
    Last year I grafted 200 different varieties of apples onto my apple tree seedlings. I wanted to expand that number and located an orchard in England that sells 3000 different varieties of apple bud stock. I discovered there are regulations on that. i have to have my orchard inspected and can't move these new varieties off my farm for two years and have a plant expert re-inspect my trees to insure I haven't brought over any diseases. That's fair. If I want to bring in animals, they have to be kept in quarantine for awhile, again to insure that I'm not starting a disease epidemic. Perhaps if the Native Americans had been that careful, they wouldn't have faced extinction due to small pocks.
    This country has a wide diversity of plants. To import a non-native variety is potentially dangerous and needless. Do we want the right to do it just because we can't? This restriction has nothing to do with GM plants and isn't remotely related to NAIS. To suggest that is to intentionally whip up the emotions of the uninformed. Let's try harder to make this site a helping site and not clearinghouse of hateful double speak.
     
  14. tn_junk

    tn_junk Living Simply

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    Complex Issue.
    Starlings. House Sparrows. Purple Loostrife. Zebra Mussles. Kudzu. Carp. Johnson Grass.
    Now that one can patent plants and animals it may get worse. JMHO, but it ain't nice to mess with mother nature. Mankind has absolutely had an influence, in my mind negative, on our natural world. How do we keep from screwing things up even worse without eliminating freedoms. And to make matters more complicated. Some of the "bad" introductions are helping. Zebra mussles are supposedly partly responsible for the increased water quality of the great lakes. Kudzu, in all of it's notoriety, has helped stabilize some marginal soil areas.
    Now with things like GMO's, etc., we are starting to truly alter things at the genetic level. Some argue that a GMO is no different than a hybrid plant or animal, but I disagree. Got a lot more questions than I do answers.