Where have all the grade goats gone?

Discussion in 'Goats' started by Cat, Nov 21, 2006.

  1. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    I've been thinking about and looking for a few dairy does around the area and I just cannot find a darn goat that is

    A). Not registered
    B). Not 'recorded grade'
    C). Doesn't cost an arm & a leg

    OR

    1). Doesn't have a full set of horns
    2). Hasn't been used to nurse calves
    3). Hasn't been raised as a nanny goat/billy goat/tin-can eater.
    4). Doesn't have some percentage boer in 'em.

    Now, I realize the value of an animal that has been bred by a 'breeder', one that has certain standards that they should measure up to, but I have absolutely no interest in a registered goat, and don't want to have to pay a half grand for a kid in utero. I want one or two to provide a bit of milk, a few cute kids, foster a few lambs, possibly, and can handle life on the ol' farm without having to be coddled too terribly much. I want a good dairy doe that is nothing but dairy, either polled or disbudded, and has been allowed to mature fully before being bred and I just cannot seem to find anything in the state of Kansas that fits the bill. Does no one raise purebred grade goats anymore?!? :shrug:

    When I was young and we had goats we had some outstanding milkers and we raised the kids on bottles and every kid was well socialized, they were all either polled or disbudded, we trimmed hooves and didn't have a registered goat in the bunch. It seems like I can't find anyone that raises them in this manner any longer, at least not locally. :(
     
  2. Jillis

    Jillis Well-Known Member

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    My entire herd is unregistered, although ab out 1/4 of them COULD be registered...I did pay almost a half a grand for one of my ND doelings.

    But most of them are excellent milking stock grade, mixed goats. Not a drop of Boer in any of them. All disbudded. None used for any purpose other then as milking goats.

    Are there any goat dairies in your area? That might be the place to pick up some kids. Be careful though. A lot of the bigger dairies with grade goats are not too careful about disease.
     

  3. Sher

    Sher Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Jillis. I think there are still plenty of them around Cat...its finding them. Alot of people may not advertise their "grade" goats..as they may think people are looking for registered stuff.

    I do agree that alot more goats are horned now than in the past..I think alot of that is to do with the large cross breeding going on for meat. I have three dehorned dairy girls..everyone else has horns.

    Carefully checking dairies is a great idea..running a "wanted" add in your local trades paper may flush up phone calls to you. And ya might try some of the "big" breeders..as I don't care what stock ya raise..some hit the ground that are really good but maybe should not be sold as great, but rather grade. Also..if you find someone you want to buy from..ask them to dehorn the next set of doe kids..just some thoughts..

    Hopefully there will be some Kansas goat people read this that have just what you are looking for. Hey...actually put up a "goats wanted" thread on here and the Barter Board...say exactly what you are looking for..ya might be blessed with some responses that are right up your alley..

    Good luck..they're there..we just gotta find them for ya!!
     
  4. Caprice Acres

    Caprice Acres AKA "mygoat" Staff Member Supporter

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    The reason I think most are registered goats nowadays is because there is hardly any moneymaking involved when you have grade goats, so most moved on to the registered goats.

    Also, use caution wherever you get your goats... Ask about CL wherever you buy from, and never even go in the pen if a goat looks sickly, even if it's not one for sale or whatnot.
     
  5. Gailann Schrader

    Gailann Schrader Green Woman

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    My best milker was a 1/2 Boer, 1/2 Oberhasli.

    She gave over a gallon of milk a day.

    You might be able to pick up an inexpensive %Boer and get your milk doe too!
     
  6. mary,tx

    mary,tx Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Cat,
    those are the goats I'm raising. :) I feel good about being able to offer a good animal to someone at a reasonable price.
    Unfortunately, I'm a long way from you. But I'm sure there are some near you. Finding them is the trick.
    mary
     
  7. sunflower-n-ks

    sunflower-n-ks Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Cat - I don't know what part of the state you are in. Here in east central Ks, I see lots of goats when I drive the back roads. I had a couple of jobs that involved driving. There are goats listed fairly often on the local "buy, sell, trade" program. I am not activly looking for goats at this time so do not call to see what they are. There are also a lot of the boers around here.

    Others had good suggestions for finding some, also maybe put want ads on bullinton boards (grocery stores, laundramats, etc.)

    Now that I have said I am not looking for a goat, I have some sheep due to lamb in Jan, and no sheep milk stored for an emergency. Maybe I should be looking for a goat. :)
     
  8. shiloh

    shiloh Active Member

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    Sounds like a song from the 60's. "Where have all the Grade goats gone? Long time passing."
    We still get them here, but the prices are way too high. Maybe advertize locally for some ?
     
  9. Blue Oak Ranch

    Blue Oak Ranch Well-Known Member

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    This isn't a rant or a nag - just the opposite side of the coin; a different viewpoint. For me, I see it this way -

    If you want a yearling doe:

    I've spent countless hours scooping poop, mucking the house, moving the pasture fencing and house, cutting fresh browse.

    I stayed up all night for several nights in the rain for that doe to kid, then bottle feeding, disbudding and all the equipment associate with that. I make sure my goats aren't sick or carry CAE, have hoof trouble, and are clean and friendly, and have something to offer to another's herd as a breeding animal.

    Granted, most of this is a labor of love and I don't really expect a person to pay for that. But, I pay about $35 a month to feed a goat, as feed is very expensive here. If a person wants a yearling doe, I've spent $420 getting her to that phase. Basic math - $35 x 12 months = $420. Am I going to sell her for $50? Nope. So, I can help to recover the costs of raising that goat by having registered stock. Showing and all that stuff is fun, yes, but it helps to get the word out on your animals, and a registered, healthy, and showable animal can justify its price tag.

    Very few people make money or even break even with their goats. I'm not even one of them (grin). I still don't understand why people who will happily pay $300 for an unregistered Labrador puppy (or up to $700 for an unregistered Cockapoo/Maltese/Pug mix) want to pay $50 for a goat that will produce far more than that dog.

    Anyway, I'm not knocking people who do sell grades or inexpensive goats....it all depends on your outlook on them and how you run your farm. There's room for everyone. You may be able to find a real bargain - check with your local 4H group or dairy goat association - when kids lose interest in their projects, you can get a good goat that's not expensive, has good bloodlines, and is disbudded. They're also usually very friendly!

    Good luck, and cheers!

    Katherine
     
  10. dezeeuwgoats

    dezeeuwgoats Well-Known Member

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    It's a shame you can't come to the auction down here in Arizona - REGISTERED dairy does sell for $50......I saw a dairy doe go through - enormous udder (overbagged from her day at the auction) but definately a producer none the less - sold for I think, $45. The boers are the only goats that bring in any money here.

    I would not suggest buying from an auction personally due to disease issues, however, you may be able to find some contacts at one.

    niki
     
  11. DocM

    DocM Well-Known Member

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    Speaking as a breeder, I can tell you I'm not interested in grade goats because it's not in my best interest. I wouldn't buy a goat without having some idea of its linage. Linage can tell you whether this line has a history of good production, strong legs and feet, long production life, good mothering, easy to milk, that kind of thing. People who raise grade goats don't bother to spend the $$ to test for CL and CAE. I've sold my "less than show quality" registered animals at what I consider a good price for a good family milker, one that I can guarantee is disease free, and by selling them at a price above auction, I can hope that anyone who'll invest good money in an animal will also care for it, and not chain it to a blackberry bush. You get what you pay for.
     
  12. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    Don't get me wrong, I'm not wanting a $50 goat by any means, but I'm not going to pay $500 for one before it hits the ground, either. I don't care what pedigree it has. I'm not going to pay $700 for a dog, either! A registration paper is only worth anything when the other party values that paper, and that's not something I've ever been concerned with. I'm not knocking those who care about that type of thing, that's certainly your right, I'm just not a big believer in it. I've had registered does before and they didn't milk any better than any of our grade does did 30 years ago, in fact, they produced far less than most of the does we had because we wouldn't feed something that didn't give enough milk. Just because one does not worry about registered stock does not mean one doesn't cull and have their own standard that animals must meet. I can find out everything I need to know about an animals lineage from a breeder if I could find a breeder who raised dairy goats as anything other than tin-can eaters. I just can't find anyone locally that does it anymore. Around here they put calves on 99% of the goats and sell them when their udders are totally ruined and that absolutely infuriates me!

    If you come out and look at my sheep and I can tell you stories about each one of my ewes, lambs they've thrown, whether they're prone to throw ewe lambs or ram-lambs, singles, twins, or triplets and I don't have any of it written down anymore! I have one ewe who's 9 years old and has given me a grand total of two lambs however the ewe lamb she gave me her first lambing was one of the most productive ewes I've ever owned giving me twins and triplets without fail. So, even though Mom wouldn't look good on paper, her daughter would look excellent. That's exactly the type of thing I can tell you that a pedigree cannot.

    Unfortunately where I live in SW Kansas there are no dairies, no trade papers, no nuttin'. I did run down a woman I'd bought some outstanding Nubian does from a few years back and she's now got nothing but percentage boer, and I do appreciate their value, too, I'm just not interested in having that in my dairy does. I've considered buying a few boers to sell the kids for butcher, but my priority is a dairy doe or two and if I want to I can easily add a boer buck.

    I've run into a few websites last night and today that might help, although they're both fairly far from me, I might just have to drive and cart me back a few cute-as-can-be kids! That's what they make pet taxis for, right? lol
     
  13. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    A 50$ goat begets $50 offspring. And this is just too darn much work to make $50!

    But you don't just want an unregistered doe. You want a milker, when you are here you want her to milk a gallon a day, you expect that (most folks are horribly dissapointed when they hear the truth about lactation curves). You want her to be pretty, well cared for, tame, milkstand ready, disease free with paperwork to prove it. All this plus, feed, hay, water, meds, wormers, vaccinations, and my time. Then you pick her up, ask a million questions, get a foot trimming demo, take home wormer and food she is used to...well certainly you get it.

    It's like my soaking wet buckling sale, when folks want me to go out and take a picture to send them of the buck they are on a list for....sorry he is black with a white spalsh and white ears, he is 3 hours old, I make a phone call for $50............... not go out and take pictures!

    Yep too much work. Vicki
     
  14. goatkid

    goatkid Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Too bad you don't live closer to me. My dairy goats are either registered American or Purebreds or recorded grades, but I don't charge an arm and a leg for them either. Without being a nationally known breeder who produces lots of champions, I can't ask $500 for an unborn kid. Every year, I have more doelings than I can keep, and I choose to cull some does who don't have show udders, but nevertheless produce tasty milk, to make room to retain a few doelings. I've never had CL in my herd and wouldn't tolerate it. My goats currently sell for under $200.
     
  15. Jcran

    Jcran Well-Known Member

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    We are the flipflop here...
    I just sold a nice fullblood boer doe for about 300 here; not much when one considers up in Washington I saw some nice ones for 800+...I just can't GET that kind of money in our rural area. What DOES sell are dairy does. Why? Because we have Cypress Grove chevre, and they pay money for milk. Now the woman who bought my doe is on 600 acres out at the end of the road on the ocean and is investing in boers as she has the land for them and the boers are getting fat and sassy on salt grass and pickle weed (she said they prefer that over hay!) They are her CHEAP investment; her expenses go into her 200+commercial dairy goats; they need the hay and grain. I think her aim is to also provide a continuing source of goat meat to the local restaurants and latino population. BTW, she's got LOTS of grade dairy does if you want to drive to California!
     
  16. DocM

    DocM Well-Known Member

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    Ha, in reality, a goat is worth what you can get for it. Brand new breeders who saw all the pretty boers at the State Fair think meat goats are the new alpaca or emu or llama - remember when they went for thousands? People give away llamas now, and my next door neighbor has a herd of 10 year old emus because there was no market for them. New breeders will pay $800 for a goat. People who know what goats are worth will pay around $300 for good stock. One of my bucks is a spitting image Scotty Tempo son. His babies, unproven, go for $400 - because his proven babies are show ring champions. Otherwise, reasonable registered dairy stock prices are holding around $250-300 here. Spotlight ADGA goats go for more, but people buy those for prestige, not for common sense.

    I have two unregistered purebred Nubians right now, 3 and 4, very healthy, great milkers - and I'm having trouble giving them away for $150 each - and they're worth every penny of that. As soon as people find out they're not registered, they're not interested. I'm going to end up registering them as recorded grade NOA just so I can find them a good home. I even offered a free breeding to one of my proven bucks - still can't find a home for them. Sigh. Nobody here wants grade goats.

    Maybe the original poster should consider having one shipped. There are several ground service livestock haulers that have coast to coast routes.
     
  17. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    Good Lord is it really that difficult to accept what I write as what I want and NOT make assumptions and put words into my mouth? Isn't that a bit ridiculous, really? Not just a little? Trying to tell me all of these demands that I'm supposedly making when nothing of what you've written is even close to what I've written? At what point did I mention ANYTHING about a $50 goat? Funny, everyone else mentions them and yet I have yet to ask for a $50 goat. I can get those, they are the tin-can eaters that sell so wonderfully around here.

    At what point did I mention ANYTHING about a gallon a day milker? I was raised with goats on goats milk! I know full well what to expect from a milker. My exact words were, and I quote: "I want one or two to provide a bit of milk, a few cute kids, foster a few lambs, possibly, and can handle life on the ol' farm without having to be coddled too terribly much."

    At what point did I mention ANYTHING about a 'hoof-trimming' demonstration? Thank you but I was raised with goats from BIRTH through my mid-twenties, and have had sheep since then, I can manage and probably as well if not better than you, thank you very much.

    Yes, I expect a well-socialized goat. Tell me how does a registration paper do this exactly? Hmmm...interestingly enough it doesn't. That's where the owner comes into play. If socialization wasn't important, again, there are PLENTY of tin-can eaters sold by the nanny and billy goat owners around I could buy for next to nothing.

    Where did I mention ANYTHING about being milk-stand ready? Well, yes, if a doe is lactating I would hope the owner was capable of training her to stand quietly in a stanchion, however, I also realize that first-year does aren't going to be angels on a stanchion and I realize that doelings aren't going to be quite that enthused about the whole stanchion idea. I'm also competent enough that I can do all that hard work by my little-ol' self even with an older doe.

    Obviously those of you who are raising registered animals feel that you must defend yourself against anyone who doesn't place the same importance on a piece of paper but go start your own BASH THE GRADE GOAT OWNERS thread and stop bothering me!

    By the way, if you have to have a medicine cabinet stocked to the gills with every medication imagineable to man, no, I wouldn't want to buy a goat from you because obviously you're not doing something right. Again, this has absolutely NOTHING to do with being registered!!

    Elitist attitudes really ...insert choice 4 letter word here... me off. There doesn't seem to be any shortage of them here.
     
  18. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    DocM, I'd easily pay $150 or more for a well established doe!! I was ready to pay $100 for a Togg doe just last week that I didn't even know if she was really a Togg, a doe, or ANYTHING because she was an auction-get and the meat-buyer I use for my ducks had her and I'd seen her for weeks driving by along the highway, I stopped to look at her (yes, I am able to make spur-of-the-moment decisions as to whether I thought she'd be worth $100 and was truly a she as my not-so-perfect vision at 70 mph suggested) and unfortunately she had been sold the week prior.

    People get so butt-hurt making assumptions about my intentions that they seem to lose touch with the reality of the question I DID ask (not the ones that they feel compelled to throw on my shoulders.)

    If I get a goat from a very far distance then I'll get kids and make the drive and cart them back home either in my car or in a van. The added bonus to that is that I'll be able to raise them and I can have a big influence on their disposition as adults.
     
  19. susanne

    susanne Nubian dairy goat breeder

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    hey, no need to be upstet, give it a smile :)
    i know exactly what you ment when you said you can't find any grade does for reasonable price.
    when i started with my nubians i was searching for ever. nobody seemed to bred them anymore. now since i found them, everybody has them.

    you want one coming spring? i will not register her so you get her without papers. ;)
     
  20. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    Susanne, I just get tired of this elitist attitude that the only animal worth a crap has to have papers, you see it in the dog world, and you even see it in the poultry world, too. I mentioned several times that I respected their opinion regarding registration and yet I still get attacked and belittled and portrayed like I'm some scum of the earth who doesn't have a clue how to raise a goat and makes all manner of unreasonable demands on sellers. Funny they can determine all of this by a single post in which I made every effort to give respect to them and their opinions.