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Discussion Starter #1
I'm hoping someone can offer some insight into this. I have a doe who was pregnant this spring, had the kid but it died. So knowing we wanted this particular doe to have kids and knowing our breeding buck was going to Swiss Valley Foundation in the summer, we put her back in with the buck. She's looked very pregnant for the past couple of months. All the other does are going into heat in the past few days, and I've been putting this very pregnant doe in with all the other kids lately. This morning the bucklings (all around 6 months old) plus one of my breeding bucks jumped the fence and were all chasing and mounting her like she's in heat. I'm very sure that she's not in heat and is pregnant, but why would they act that way? we pulled her out and put her in with the doelings because I didn't want them stressing her out. Would she possibly not be pregnant even though she looks very very pregnant? I'm a bit stumped here. Thoughts?
 

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hillbilly farmgirl
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Don't take this as gospel or anything but I have heard that when does get close to kidding they do attract bucks the way they do while in heat

My buck will mount a doe that's about to kid, and was mounting the last doe to freshen this year the day after she kidded
 

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Pictures would help out lots, does she show the classic signs, ligs going, utter filling, glad you put her with the girls that is the best thing to do.
 

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What do you mean by 'looks pregnant?" A big belly? Goats are ruminants, so a big belly just means that they are fermenting food. Some animals excel in what is called 'body capacity' as well, which means they have a large rumen capacity. As animals mature, you generally expect body capacity to increase especially as they mature. A little 'tubey' first freshener can become a deep capacious doe by 3-4 with further lactations and pregnancies.

Appearance is broadly a very poor indicator of pregnancy status for these reasons. If an animal shows a pregnancy, it is generally in the last month of pregnancy that it becomes obvious. I can usually tell around 6 weeks or more prior. Some animals never show very well at all, especially very capacious does with singles for example. Some animals carry a lot of fluid and show like they're carrying a huge litter then have a single kid.

What breed is your doe? Many of the swiss types are seasonal. Not only do they go into an anestrous period after giving birth, they also may not go into heat again until fall because they are in anestrus.
 
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Discussion Starter #5
What do you mean by 'looks pregnant?" A big belly? Goats are ruminants, so a big belly just means that they are fermenting food. Some animals excel in what is called 'body capacity' as well, which means they have a large rumen capacity. As animals mature, you generally expect body capacity to increase especially as they mature. A little 'tubey' first freshener can become a deep capacious doe by 3-4 with further lactations and pregnancies.

Appearance is broadly a very poor indicator of pregnancy status for these reasons. If an animal shows a pregnancy, it is generally in the last month of pregnancy that it becomes obvious. I can usually tell around 6 weeks or more prior. Some animals never show very well at all, especially very capacious does with singles for example. Some animals carry a lot of fluid and show like they're carrying a huge litter then have a single kid.

What breed is your doe? Many of the swiss types are seasonal. Not only do they go into an anestrous period after giving birth, they also may not go into heat again until fall because they are in anestrus.

WOW! Your statements of " Goats are ruminants, so a big belly just means that they are fermenting food" & "Appearance is broadly a very poor indicator of pregnancy status" are really quite insulting. Please don't assume that I'm stupid and don't know that goats are ruminants or that I have no idea what a very pregnant doe looks like.

My goats are a very rare variety of Spanish goats which are not seasonal breeders and can breed year round- doing the math of when she was in with the buck she should be due to have her kids within the next few (2-3) weeks, so yes, even in the morning she's got a big belly sticking out at the sides where she once was lean and svelte only a few months ago. I'm not a betting person, but I would bet you without a doubt that she is pregnant even though I haven't had ultrasounds done.

I was wondering if it's possible that she was having false pregnancy symptoms even though she looks very very pregnant because she was so distraught for months after her kid died. With the bucks chasing her trying to breed her i started questioning whether this was the case. Thinking that maybe she really was on the verge going into heat because the bucks are in rut and all the other does are in heat. I've never seen this nor has my goat mentor friend who has bred and raised goats for over 30 years.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I do not know they answer but my buck tried to breed my doe who was preg with trips and died shortly after the buck mounted her like a dozen times in one day.
OH yikes! I was worried that this would stress her out so I pulled her into a pasture with the little girls. I'm sorry to hear about that loss of triplets and the doe, it's not what anyone wants. You must have been heart broken to lose her.
 

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Please don't assume that I'm stupid and don't know that goats are ruminants or that I have no idea what a very pregnant doe looks like.
Please don't assume we know what you know when you ask questions and make statements like:

Would she possibly not be pregnant even though she looks very very pregnant?
There are lots of people who don't know the difference between a normal belly, a pregnant belly and a bloated belly.

Maybe if you start out posting all your credentials before asking, no one will have to guess when trying to help you.
 

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WOW! Your statements of " Goats are ruminants, so a big belly just means that they are fermenting food" & "Appearance is broadly a very poor indicator of pregnancy status" are really quite insulting. Please don't assume that I'm stupid and don't know that goats are ruminants or that I have no idea what a very pregnant doe looks like.
This is a learning environment and I'm sorry you took my comments as insulting - that was certainly never my goal. I see a big belly misinterpreted literally all the time with goats, so it is not that I assume you're 'stupid' - I can have no idea how much experience you have, or what breed of goat you have, or how you know she is pregnant, actually. My comments tend to be directed at more than just the original poster being that this IS a public forum. The purpose of my asking what you consider 'looking pregnant' is so I could further understand what you're seeing. Others also read these posts, and if the comment didn't help you, perhaps it helped others.

I will also say that usually the *MOST* common reason a doe shows heat signs and allows bucks to mount is because she is in estrus. I'm sorry if this seems like an oversimplification, but there is a saying - common things happen commonly. There are many reasons for a return to estrus after breeding or pregnancy diagnosis, some include a period of anestrus due to health status of the dam, or timing of death of fetus(es) after maternal recognition of pregnancy or an error in non-pregnancy signalling leading to a 'false pregnancy' type situation. Usually male behavior is quite revolting to a pregnant animal so even in a lot of these cases, buck advances are usually still refused. There are various types of non-fetal 'pregnancy' failures such as cloudburst pregnancies, false pregnancies, and hydrometra that are recognized. There are also many errors of development or infections that cause abortion, mummification, or maceration of fetuses. I'm always astounded that things manage to go *right* as often as they do when everything seems to be 'against' a normal pregnancy! :)

Standing for mounting during pregnancy - behavioral estrus - allowing mounting of both herdmates as well as intact males -is a phenomenon seen in many species, though not a huge percentage of animals within a species will allow this. The cause could be estrogen-like hormones produced in pregnancy but I'm having trouble finding more information beyond that in my resources. I assume that is because while it's seen (and it's pretty common on dairies to see cows in the close up pens mounting others), it doesn't seem to mean anything clinically if it does happen.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
Caprice Acres- Understood that you weren't trying to be offensive, but be more aware of how your "general information" can be perceived.

She wasn't standing/allowing any of them to breed her (FYI she's been in pasture with all of these bucklings for the past few months because she is pregnant), they just began chasing and mounting her even though she clearly did not want that on Thursday. At first we wondered if it was because 2 of our other does went into standing heat that day, & the bucklings were excited and confused as to who was in heat. But then the breeding buck jumped the fence out of the pen with the does that were in heat, to be in with her, and began chasing her & trying to mount her also. It was quite the fiasco trying to catch her and get her away from all of them. I guess we also discovered that breeding buck is quite a high jumper (who knew he could go over a 5' tall fence that easily?)

We couldn't understand why he would leave 2 does that were in clearly heat & in the same paddock with him.

I have a mentor friend who has raised this variety of goat for over 30 years. When I called her and asked her about it, she told me she had never seen that type of behavior out of her goats (some of these goats I have were purchased from her). this is why I decided to see if anyone else had ever experienced this.
 

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Please understand that the written word on public forums is without verbal or personal interaction. My advice to you in the future is to not take things so personally and assume others are trying to come off a certain way. I am sorry you misinterpreted my intentions of trying to HELP you. I am going to continue addressing a broad scope of individuals here on this forum as I have for years and years, and I try to do so without assuming anything and often with little information. This means I start broad, and tend to get more and more technical. I'll ask for more and more information. I'll use my own personal experience of raising goats to help me out somewhat, but then I usually go RESEARCH for you both in qualified layperson resources online, veterinary texts and resources, and published veterinary literature. As much as can be linked or provided in the forum, I try to give the direct information source as well. Heck, I've often used my position as a veterinary student to discuss topics (without names or identifying information, just broad questions) on this forum with veterinary pathologists, theriogenologists, or other practicing vets with a lifetime of practical experience just to help people and to garner the best information possible for them. I do this all around an incredibly demanding and variable schedule and often during short breaks in my day when I have a million other things I could be doing, but choose to come to this forum. Perhaps now you will understand where my 'general information' comes from and we can both move forward.
 

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We couldn't understand why he would leave 2 does that were in clearly heat & in the same paddock with him.
Because males will often mount anything that doesn't move fast enough, including each other.
The more the merrier.
 

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This is a learning environment and I'm sorry you took my comments as insulting - that was certainly never my goal.
Your answers are valuable. The forum also serves as knowledge base for others reading and the way you answer the questions are professional. I have been reading them four years now.
 
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