What's cruel, what's not?

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by nostalgia, May 7, 2004.

  1. nostalgia

    nostalgia Well-Known Member

    Jun 7, 2003
    Something that really gets under my skin is when I see a dead dog lying on or beside the roadways. Most of the time they are strays but, sadly some have owners.

    Where we live I see many small pups as well as older dogs running loose. If one lives on a place with lots of acreage then I can understand letting the dogs roam freely. But letting them roam freely near roads is just plain crazy and cruel to me. But if you ask some pet owners why they allow them to roam freely, they say because they think it is cruel to keep one chained up or penned up. What do you think? Which is the most cruel, to keep it chained up or to let it get hit by a car and cause needless suffering or death to the animal and needless guilt to the driver? The answer seems pretty obvious to me. So why is it I see so many dogs dead on the road? So if it's cruel to leave one unchained or unpenned, why isn't the owners charged with animal neglect and/or cruelty?

    I realize that some pets get away from the owner or is accidentally let out of the gate, and accidents happen. But I have seen far to many animals roaming freely and know they belong to someone, then one day there it is dead on the road. I even see many dogs just waiting by the road, day in and day out, running along the road chasing cars. And another one that breaks my heart is when I see animals chasing after the owners car. I can't tell you how many we have just barely missed hitting because it would chase after the owners vehicle and we not see it behind the car.

    How many dead dogs on the road do people need to see before they realize what is really cruel and what's not? Am I just being overly protective of my dog or too sensitive?

    One thing I would also like to mention is that many animals are killed because of food that is thrown out of vehicles. Please don't throw any kind of food or even empty food bags that have food odors in them along the roadways. I think this would also prevent some animals from being hit by cars. Besides it's not nice to litter. :)
  2. Ruby

    Ruby Well-Known Member Supporter

    May 10, 2002
    Nostalgia, I'm with you on that. I get so angry when I see animals running lose. We have two dogs about 80 or so lbs. and they are both in a fenced in area about 75' X 75. They have plenty room to play. Then there are dogs running loose in the neighbor hood and tempts ours.

    I saw one dog one day eating something in a fast food bag and I had to slow down and blow the horn to keep from hitting it. We have never believed in letting our dogs run loose. Not only for the dog's safety but common courtesy for the neighbor hood. I don't want someone else's dog in my yard.

  3. sancraft

    sancraft Well-Known Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    My sister hit a little dog running after it's owners car. She was devastated. She just didn't see the little dog. I watched a little Jack Russell chasing his owners car 2 blocks onto a main road about 2 weeks ago. I turned around and followed the dog home in my car to make sure he got there safely. I later stopped when I saw the owners car back home and told them . They were very nonchalant about it saying the dog does that all the time,but he always comes home. I couldn't help but feel for the dog. I know that one day, crossing that main run (and it's on a curve), he won't make it back home. And by simply locking the doggie door when they leave the house or putting the dog in a pen outside or crate in the house wuld prevent that.
  4. Ana Bluebird

    Ana Bluebird Well-Known Member Supporter

    Dec 8, 2002
    I am totally with you. Our area is turning into the new "suburbia", 5 acres, big two-story house, and two big dogs. For six months they chain up the big dogs, then they get to believing that it is cruel (mainly because the owners totally ignore the dogs), then they are turned loose to run the neighborhood. I have 15 acres and still have goats and chickens, so here comes this pack of bored dogs. I try to contact the owners, but usually they ignore me too. It's not the dog's fault, but I've lost more animals to neighbor's dogs than I've ever lost to natural preditors. I told one neighbor that has a bird-dog that can climb fences that I'm sitting here with my rifle, but they still turn that dog loose. Too bad.
  5. margo

    margo Well-Known Member

    May 29, 2002
    Count me in agreement, Nostalgia. I particularly dislike accidentally stepping in stuff belonging to someone else's dog who of course will not deposit it in his territory (his own yard). I wonder if some of the folks who allow animals to run,and think it is cruel to restrain them, don't or can't afford the time to socialize with their pets or guard animals. One could tie Ole Shep, but be sure to take him out and let him interact with the family rather than put him at the farthest ennd of the property and forget him except to feed. I've seen this alot. No wonder they dig and bark and run in circles. I breaks my heart. I am a true softie. But I believe we are given dominion over animals, and that also implies responsibility to "regard the life of our beasts". Don't ask me to quote where exactly, probably Proverbs, I read it. There is the possibility, as you stated, that some get loose or wander off. That ought to be a rare and temporary situation. My dogs would give chase in a hurry if they spied a cat or rabbit, so I try to keep watch on them. They are not permitted near the road, and with some exceptions, they remain in the yard area. It takes my being aware and listening for them, but to me they are worth the trouble.
    Just the difference in thinkin, I guess, cause obviously,some folks don't feel the same way or do as I do. ...... :) ....Margo
  6. june02bug

    june02bug Well-Known Member

    May 23, 2003
    North Carolina
    I'm with most of you. I have problems with both. An outside dog should have a fenced area at least. I hate chains and loose dogs.
  7. james dilley

    james dilley Well-Known Member Supporter

    Mar 21, 2004
    deep south texas
    i kept mine in large kennels on a feced in lot never let them run unless training or hunting. that said i have shot andkilled more than my share of peoples pets for killing live stock last time was2 yrs ago
  8. comfortablynumb

    comfortablynumb Well-Known Member

    Nov 18, 2003
    Dysfunction Junction, SW PA
    many years ago, we had chained dogs, as I got a bit older i took them off thier chains and they stayed around the house, then progress buit up and well more cars more houses yada yada yada...
    I wont chain my dogs, only time I do is to keep them safe while the fence is being fixed orI am working outside the fences and they wanna be with me.

    horese or dog I go to great pains to keep them fenced, the last free range dog i had got whacked by a slow (very slow)moving hay wagon (old, a bit deaf and not so alert) when you live with dogs running lose on farms all yer life you dont think the dog is in danger and 99% of the time they are fine, much more observant and careful that you are. AGE is a cruel bit*h for a dog, when age creeps in, even a safly remote farm dog needs contained and watched.

    but your talking about humans who leave their human kids running lose without concern, dont believe these critters will care two shakes for a dog.

    maybe some dogs commit suicide?
  9. Dances In Woods

    Dances In Woods Well-Known Member

    Jun 17, 2002
    Henderson, TEXAS
    Grrrr....and what really makes me mad is when their dog is hit & dead the owners just leave the body where it fell. These ole trashy people several miles up the road had a houndog and when it got hit by a car the body laid right there at their mailbox. ....they never moved it and it layed there until it decayed.

    You know everytime they got their mail the dog was there and decaying. That really burned my a s s . Hubby told me don't you dare stop there and give them what for because these folks were "rough". (The kind you don't fool with)
    However, I did leave a note in their mailbox and the dog remained there anyway. :mad: :mad: :no:
  10. kosh

    kosh Well-Known Member

    Apr 6, 2004
    There are so many irresponsible dog 'owners' who should not have dogs. Many of them move into the country from the city and think that it's ok to just let the dogs roam. I grew up dealing with that crap.. one dog used to come in my parents yard and growl at my dad. Another came in our yard and killed our cat. Another attacked my chickens and dug in our trash..

    Many people have no consideration when they get a dog companion. Dogs are pack animals. They should not live their lives chained to a dog house out back, starved for attention. They should not live their lives in a tiny dog kennel, alone, starved for attention, and they should not be roaming the neighborhood. It's about responsibility and compassion. I have a dog, and because i wanted a dog i fenced my yard, because my dog likes to go exploring. Prior to fencing my yard, a few times she went exploring the neighborhood when i took her out to go potty. People need to realize that a dog sees their 'owner' and the family as their pack. They want to be with them. But they are not a wolf, they should not be roaming the wilderness. Not only can they be destructive, they can also be injured or killed.

    I'll stop there otherwise i'll start another tangent about the same type of people who have cats and kids! ha!

  11. Keeping a dog chained up is just a bad idea. I think that it does the same kind of thing to a dog that it would to you or me.

    I'm a firm believer in a good-sized fenced yard for dogs. Don't let them run around and cause trouble or get hurt, but don't chain them up either.

    Now I will also say that if one of my dogs got out and one of my neighbors shot it for any reason other than killing livestock or attacking people, I would be on that person's doorstep with a shotgun in my hands. Some people will actually brag about shooting dogs that wander onto their property. Those people had better remember that killing a man's dog is like killing his son, and they had better be prepared to get just as they give.
  12. comfortablynumb

    comfortablynumb Well-Known Member

    Nov 18, 2003
    Dysfunction Junction, SW PA
    way back when life was nicer around here, we all knew each other and we knew each others dogs. of my dog roamed to neighbor joes, they treated him like a pet, and the dog came home, and thier dogs often came around here, played with my dogs and then went on their mmerry way... life was simple.

    now, the "new" neighbors have rotten weilers and pit bulls and akitas. these aint "friendly farm dogs".

    when one came around and ripped my neighbors beale into 100 pieces, he blew its head off. a wek later, the owners had a new rottenwieler....

    the days of "he look its mr jones dog buck.. here boy how ya doin?" are long gone, now its "oh jeeze there thesmiths dog deamonkiller... put the cats away quick!"

    I made the mistake of helping the nieghbor kid hunt for his lost rottie a while ago and was met in his driveway by an enraged father demanding to know why i was on his land with a flashlihgt...

    uhhh.. helping your son find his dog.. he calle dme so I am helping him look"

    thank you?
    noooooo i got

    "well we found em now you can go home"

    I had two words for him in my head and I screamed them, silently without moving my mouth...

    "F YOU!"

    it came out "ok dude, glad you found the boys dog... I know its tough to lose your pet"
    (this same putz ran over my old dog and never looked back or responded to the screaming of my nephew, he just laughed and waved at him)

    I am getting one step closer to buging out of this village, since the "village idiot" factory moved in it just isnt the same.
  13. GeorgeK

    GeorgeK Well-Known Member

    Apr 14, 2004
    Is ther anyplace that doesn't have leash laws? the other thing not mentioned is how these loose running dogs scare drivers and people occassionally wreck their cars. A friend of mine was terribly injured because he swerved to miss a cat.
  14. countrygirl26

    countrygirl26 Active Member

    Apr 26, 2004
    ohio soon to be missouri
    I think it just depends on where you live and what your neighbors are like. We lived in the country and had quite a few dogs. We had 2 artic wolves. We always kept them in the house or we had them in a kennel 20x 30 ^6 foot high. They were the friendliest but was always afraid of neighbors shooten' em cause they were wolves. We had a St. Bernard and he like to cross the street. The neighbors didn't mind so we didn't either, because we lived out in the sticks and notmuch traffic. We had a neighbor down the road though that had a mutt and the dog would sleep in the middle of the street. The owners did not try to chain him or fence him in. Eventually one day he was lying dead in the road.

    We now live in town and we have 2 St. Bernards. They never run loose always on a leash or chain, because they neighbors are all jerks and the roads are buisy, but when we go to the park we always let them off their leashes to play a while and tehy never run off.

    We are getting ready to move onto 5 acres with no neighbors arround and I will let my dogs run loose, but if my dogs cause problems with neighbors or other dogs I won't hesitate to chain them up.

    I think if your dog is not obedient to you and wont come when you say I would cage or chain them up.

    People make me mad when we lived in the country, because everyone knew we had dogs and my husband had hunting dogs, so if they had unwanted dogs guess where they would end up? In my yard, barn and dog kennels. I had enough dogs why load your dogs off on me?

    When I see stray dogs like last year on vacation i saw a very skinny looked like a great dane running loose starving, so I stopped my car walked into the woods and dumped 2 bags of potatoe chips on the ground. He wouldn't ever come to me but I fed it something ever time I saw him around. I just wonder how people can just throw their dogs out on a road somewhere and leave them. There are so many organizations out there to help place dogs in homes. Even some pounds take dogs for a small fee. Even if they are euthanized it is better than them runnign the raods starving and causing a neusance.

    About Pitt bulls- here in Ohio you have to carry 100,000 dollars insurance on any pitt bull or pitt mixed dogs. It cost my friend about 700.00 a year. if they pick up your pitt and no insurance you won't ever see your dog again. They are humainly uthenised.
  15. Oilpatch197

    Oilpatch197 Well-Known Member

    Apr 18, 2004
    SouthEastern Illinois
    we got folks around here that have Coyote Dogs, they let them go with a tracker collar and they hunt down the coyotes and shoot the coyotes, somtimes the dogs go on PRIVATE LANDS and other times the owner loses track of the dog, or a dog gets hit when crossing a highway.

    These are well trained expensive pups, and they are doing a good thing by getting the darn coyotes.
  16. JulieNC

    JulieNC Well-Known Member

    May 29, 2002
    When we moved to the country, we didn't confine our dogs . . . afterall, we figured we had ten acres. When we were around, the dogs stayed on the property. What we didn't realize, though, was that if we left for more than a couple of hours, the dogs would wander. :no:

    They didn't cause any trouble, but we figured it was just a matter of time before something happened, so we installed Invisible Fencing. The dogs have free run of several acres, and we know that they're not out causing trouble and that they're safe.

    We have new neighbors who have large dogs that are allowed to run free. They come onto my property and cause a ruckus with my dogs. They hang out near the poultry fencing, constantly testing the fences. It's just a matter of time before they cause some real problems. Of course, we have a rule in the neighborhood about not allowing pets to become pests, but I hate to say anything. I suppose if this continues, though, I'll have to say something.

    As for chaining a dog, I suppose for a short term solution it would work, but I think there is something cruel about it. I often see dogs that have wrapped their chain around a post or tree and are sitting there with only a tiny bit of chain (often not even able to get to their water after wrapping their chain). I'd rather see folks invest in some decent fencing. If you can't afford to keep your dogs on your property and safe, then I don't think you can afford to own them. In my mind, that's simply a cost of ownership.
  17. Corgitails

    Corgitails Well-Known Member

    Jun 2, 2003
    Even training isn't enough, sometimes.

    My first Cardigan Corgi, Bou, died after being hit by a car a week before his first obedience trial. A meter reader had left the gate open and Bou was running BACK across the street to my father when he got hit.

    I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but please guys? Contain your pets.
  18. big rockpile

    big rockpile If I need a Shelter

    Feb 24, 2003
    I have four Dogs three I keep in the house,one chained.I would keep him in the house,but my Jack Russell trys to kill him.

    I have two neighbors that let their Dogs run,they both tell me if I see them on my place shoot them.I really don't feel it is my problem.It only cost me $200 to fence my Backyard in.

    big rockpile