What should I do?

Discussion in 'Goats' started by GoldenWood Farm, Apr 6, 2005.

  1. GoldenWood Farm

    GoldenWood Farm Legally blonde! Supporter

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    Ok..I relized a day or two ago that I didn't lute 2 does :bash: ..they would now be 3 months pregnent :bash: ...both are about a year old now...one is only 84 pounds(she is a nubian and was out of a set of premie triplets) and then a LaMancha doe who is about 90 pounds.

    I am almost certin the nubian doe is pregnent.

    There was a nubian doe and a lamancha doe bred by my lamancha buck. The lamancha doe was the bucks sister. Now the lamancha doe weighs about 90 pounds and the nubian doe about 84 pounds.

    The LaMancha doe COULD have been bred to a nigerian this year but I decided to keep her dry as she was on the petite side same as the nubian.

    The nubian is starting to show a larger belly and her vulva is larger than my dry does.

    The LaMancha doe I am not sure.

    What should I do? Lute or let the does kid? I am so worried...I hate the thought of killing kids and I am worried it would reek havoc on my does systems..then again what if the kids are to big?

    It was a yearling buck that bred them. What should I do?!?!?!

    I would ask my goat guru friend also but I am terrrified of what she is going to say...(Don't want her to get mad at me or anything :waa: )

    MotherClucker
     
  2. bethlaf

    bethlaf Homegrown Family

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    while the current trend is to let does reach a year or more before first kidding ,nature has provided us an indicator of when they are ready to be bred .....its called heat...
    since she went into estrus , she is technically capable of carrying a baby to term , what i would do at this late time is allow her to finish the pregancy, then dont re breed her this fall, she may always be smaller than the others her age, but thats not always a bad thing

    most breeders say that at 80 lbs adoe is large enough to be bred.

    i wouldnt abort, but thats a personal choice, again in this one i trust nature.
    Beth
     

  3. GoldenWood Farm

    GoldenWood Farm Legally blonde! Supporter

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    I am real worried that they can't handle the kidding...meaning the kid would be to large for them :waa: .

    MotherClucker
     
  4. bethlaf

    bethlaf Homegrown Family

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    i understand your worry, buy again , nature makes greatthings happen there,the girls will deliver singles most likely, and chances are your getting all quixotic on them ,
    feed them like you would any pregnant doe , make sure they have enough nutrition , and i can practially promise that they will deliver healthy kids for you, i have seen and heard of 10/11 month old does delivering healthy kids
    personally the youngest i have ever handled was a 13 month old doe and she had twins, she was a good doe her whole milking life, but never grew as leggy and big as the other girls her age,

    relax she should be fine , if shes not i swear i will give you my phone number and i will do a play by play with you on kidding day,
    no joke
    i think at 3 months , thats near full term , comparing to human she would be equal to a 6 month pregnancy, i wouldnt dream of luteing her this late
     
  5. animal_kingdom

    animal_kingdom Well-Known Member

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    I would stop worrying and let it play out also.

    I have a goat this year that was having difficulty birthing. I just massaged her butt to help it stretch a bit more and helped her ease the pain. Also put a couple of fingers in along the top and helped the head a little.

    Scared me. That's for sure. But 5 mins later, the doe was perfectly happy and munching on hay again!

    I also have a small boer. I think she must of been the runt. I just can't remember clearly the day I bought her. Well we breeded her with a big ole boer and I too was concerned at the birth size.

    However, she delivered a 5# doeling single.

    Take it one day at a time. Be prepared for the worst as far as your birthing kit goes and know you're ready.
     
  6. windyhollowfarm

    windyhollowfarm Well-Known Member

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    I agree let the does kid.
     
  7. mpillow

    mpillow Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I would let them kid also.

    My girls are fed only good/excellent quality hay and maybe 1c of grain until about two weeks before they are due. I start to increase grain at this point. We have had triplets mostly twins and a couple singles from first fresheners that were young.

    We even had a breech kid from a 1yo first freshener that she delivered all by herself. He was 7-8lbs...mom weighed about 110# at breeding time.
     
  8. LuckyGRanch

    LuckyGRanch Well-Known Member

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    I would let them be. When you know they're close to kidding just watch them more closely than you normally would. They might need a little help. I had a kid we named "Goliath" from a first freshener. She was an appropriate size when bred but, I think since they often carry just one kid it tends to get larger. She needed a LOT of help.

    Good Luck...

    If you Lute and see dead kids you'll feel much worse than just leaving things take their course. I know I would.....
     
  9. Goatladywebb

    Goatladywebb Member

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    I disagree with heat being an indicator that young does are prepared for kidding. They need to mature before kidding for their own health and safety. My does were two years old but only 110 pounds at kidding time..and they delivered large single kids. It was hard on them. That was last year. This year was their second time kidding,they had more weight on them and were in better condition..and everything went well. I can't imagine how things would have gone if I had allowed them to kid when they were only 90 pounds AND young to boot. Maybe in earlier times before mankind interferred,goats
    didfine ontheir own. Now that they are managed by us..they need more care.
     
  10. creeklady2000

    creeklady2000 Well-Known Member

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    Let them be everyone that I know as breeders here where I live they all breed there kids the first year if they take and they are fine I have bred several 10 monthers and they do fine just watch them closely when they are ready to kid and you might need to help alittle other wse they should be just fine
     
  11. susanne

    susanne Nubian dairy goat breeder

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    MC it doesn't matter how old the buck was. it is the genetic that counts. if your does were dwarf goats and breed to a boer billy i would have been very concerned. it sounds like your does are big enough.
    susanne
     
  12. mary,tx

    mary,tx Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I routinely breed my yearling does. At this stage, I would not think of lutelysing, but I would watch them closely at kidding time just in case they need a hand.
    mary
     
  13. GoldenWood Farm

    GoldenWood Farm Legally blonde! Supporter

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    Well I know almost for sure that the nubian doe is pregnent(I know for sure without having a pregnency test or anything). The LaMancha I am pretty sure is pregnent also.

    I decided I won't lute..I think when I found out that I had already decided not to lute as it was to far in their pregnency. I just can't stand the thought of making them go through the labor and all...it seems like it would be to hard on them as it isn't natural..

    Since I know exactly what day they where bred I am going to lute like the day before their due date so that I am there when they give birth. No guessing or fooling around with thinking if they are in labor or not. (a gal named Judi Hoy does this as they work and need to be there when their does kid)

    I have already dealt with a somewhat hard birth in a 9 year old doe so I feel that I can help deliver these babys if I need to. I will have 3 does now due on June 11th.

    I hope that the nubian at least has twins...her mother had triplets as a first freshener(or was it her second?). So MAYBE Tizzy(my nubian) will have twins...I think it would be easier on her than having one large single.

    The good thing is I don't have to wait intill next spring to see what their udders look like...not how I planned their first breeding to go though :no: :bash: .

    If they do fine kidding then I know that the rest of their kiddings should be a breeze.

    Ok I will stop talking now...

    MotherClucker
     
  14. windyhollowfarm

    windyhollowfarm Well-Known Member

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    Good idea to lute them so you know they will kid when you are there. :)

    Let us know how everything turns out. I would give them prenatal shots, and if you live in a selenium defecient area Bo-Se.

    I hope everything works out well for you and the does!
     
  15. animal_kingdom

    animal_kingdom Well-Known Member

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    I feel so inadequate sometimes...

    Could someone please tell me what "lute" means? From the conversation I could probably give a good guess. But I've never heard that term before.

    Thanks.
     
  16. mary,tx

    mary,tx Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I would absolutely not lutelyse them at or near their due date. By that time, their own bodies will be the best judge of timing. I have a very good friend who is a vet and raises goats. She induced labor for a goat only a few days early because the doe had gone down. She lost both kids, and the doe never regained her full health, having to be put down the next year.
    imo, the best thing to do is watch them closely for signs of readiness, just like you have watched your goats in the past. I would not mess with mother nature on this.
    mary
     
  17. billooo2

    billooo2 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I had a similar situation last fall. Two young does got bred. They have both kidded with no problems. The moms are doing fine, and the kids are lively and ornery.

    I am not sure, but I think that it seems to me that due to the specific mechanism of action of lutalyse, it may not work if they are this far along in the preganancy.
     
  18. windyhollowfarm

    windyhollowfarm Well-Known Member

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    Lutalysing would be the best option for her if she is very busy, and cant be there all the time. Lets face it rarely can we be there all the time. These does may need help kidding therefore by giving them lutalyse so they kid when she is home is the best. I know quite a few breeders who work outside of the home, and cant be there. Therefore, does are lutalysed. This is especially important when practicing CAE prevention, and removing kids from does after birth. It is done frequently without any problems. I agree on letting nature take care of things, and does kidding on their own schedules. However, this cannot be done in all situations. These does need to kid when she is there to observe.


    Lutalyse is Prostaglanin - 2mg/ml - Rx
    Goat dose & treatment: IM Injection
    Induce heat: 1/2 to 1ml to bring an ovulating adult doe into standing heat. 65-75 hours after injection she will be ready to breed.
    To synchronize does: 1ml day 4 of cycle & again in 11 days.
    As an abortive: 2ml
    To Induce labor: 1/2 to 2.0 ml to bring a doe into active labor, with delivery in 28-57 hours.
    Milk withholding time: none

    It is a hormone used to induce labor, bring does into heat, and as an abortive drug.


    When using lutalyse to induce labor PLEASE PLEASE be positive of the breeding/due date.
     
  19. animal_kingdom

    animal_kingdom Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Danielle for the information. I actually have never heard of this before.

    Does anyone use this as a regular thing to bring your does into heat?
     
  20. windyhollowfarm

    windyhollowfarm Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I dont mess with it as there is a lot of timing needed. I believe that the first heat is a false heat. There is a false heat involved when lutalysing that you have to be aware of then breed on the real heat. I havent used the drug at all so maybe someone else knows.