What is it with breeders now a days?

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by bergere, Feb 13, 2005.

  1. bergere

    bergere Just living Life

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    Know I should not let this up set me, but it does,, alot!!

    We have been looking for the perfect dog,, and some gentle polled Steers to eat the grass down.

    So I go to the animals registry web site,, and email folks in my area, and ask if they have such and such, what is the price of the animal,, what I plan to do...etc..etc..
    Half the time no one will write back to let you know wither or not they have any animals for sale.
    Couple of them said they don't sell anything to anyone that emails them about their animals. That made me mad, because got the information of their breed Registry pages. Why list their email if they are not going to respect the person emailing?? Just don't understand that.

    Then you get, no farm people are allowed to buy my animals because they can't take care of them. Like what,, passing judgment before one sees my place is a little hum... how would I put it politely?? My Old & new Vet would be more than happy to let them know my animals get excellent care. But they don't even give you a chance.

    Even contact people with Steers for sale,, and I just want pets (well ..hubby might eat one at some point,, if we get a grumpy one that is), not looking to eat them. I send them my web pages when they request them. Then they do not email back,, I email again,, and they say they decided the steers are not for sale.
    Like what's up with that?
    Granted we just moved to a bigger Farm,, but Geess.....

    Is it really getting that bad out there?? I just am confused,, and have no idea what to do?

    When I raised and breed my sheep, chickens and ducks,, I always emailed the same day, to at least respond in a polite manner, let them know if I any thing for sale, how much, or that I did not have any thing at this time, but there is a waiting list. But I would never treat people as I am getting treated.

    Am I stupid, old fashioned, out dated?? What???
     
  2. Shazza

    Shazza Well-Known Member Supporter

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    They don't have any people skills and they don't give a sh** about other people and how they feel. I have answered adds on a Dairy goat site recently...well about a month ago and I am still waiting for a response. It annoys me, why advertise on the internet if they weren't prepared to answer any email enquiries. Their adds are still there. I have since gone somewhere else...through a recommendation from a friend..and got on famously with a guy on the phone and even better on meeting me and so I bought his toggenburg buck kid. We are attracted to people who are the same as us...we have to be the majority...I hope we are the majority. But anyhoo it lets you know bergere that people the world over are like that and people the world over are like US. :D
     

  3. MorrisonCorner

    MorrisonCorner Mansfield, VT for 200 yrs

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    Wading in where angels fear to tread...

    We advise all of our clients to be prepared for an onslaught of emails when they go live, particularly if they are in the business of selling or placing animals. In order to achieve good search engine placement, a farm must advertise (to have links pointed back at them) and it must offer content. So they're going to attract attention. Some of it is highly desirable (people seriously looking for stock) some of it is undesirable (spam and phishing), but the vast majority of it is tire kickers. People who don't know what they want and want to pick your brain about their lives. People who don't know the first thing about the animals they're looking at, and rather than reading a book, they're going to ask you to explain it all.

    Lest you think I don't know what I'm talking about, I run two of these sites in my own right... and I get email every day from people who just want to ask "a few questions." It takes a ton of time to answer these people and sometimes I don't get back to them for several days.

    And sometimes... I don't get back to them at all. They end up burried in the in box and it never happens.

    I build websites. I spend 8 hours a day on the computer. I type over 100 wpm... most of my clients log in for a half hour a day, if that, they're overwhelmed with spam, and they lose good emails amid the junk.

    In short, they're not really in the business of answering email, even though it seems like they should be from where you and I are sitting.

    If you want a serious response to a serious inquiry, your best bet is to pick up the phone and call these people. Unfortunately, the power of the net has been somewhat diminished under the weight of spam, and until this issues is resolved, you're going to find smaller producers and businesses "lose" email or mistake an email for spam, or just don't have time to answer even all the legitimate email they get amid all the "tire kicker" emails.
     
  4. bergere

    bergere Just living Life

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    Ah but you see MorrisonCorner , sometimes their phone number isn't list. Or I call leave a message and do not get a call back. It is easier for me to email,, that way I have things in writting.

    I also ran and still maintain my own web site, and raised & Sold animals. You are going to get tire kickers, that is just part of what goes on. I have dealt with animal rights people, the tire kickers, the pain in the back sides,, and good folks. But they seem to treat all folks the same,, and you can't do that and stay in business,,, unless they are not really in business.

    Pretty sad when you want to give a breeder money, but they can't be bothered to return calls or emails... or think you are not good enough before they get to know you.
     
  5. BCR

    BCR Well-Known Member

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    Tehy just aren't treating it like a business. For heaven's sake, they are probably the same people moaning about not making a living from their stock.

    FWIW, I have the same problem with a lot of other small businesses.
     
  6. MikeD

    MikeD Well-Known Member

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    There is also the possibility that they are not a legitimate breeder i.e. licensed, registered, etc. and are afraid of doing business with an unknown entity over the web for fear of being busted for operating illegally. I, for one, would never do business with a breeder of anything if they did not disclose full contact information and allowed me to personally visit the facility and view their breeding stock and program. Be extremely wary if they corral you to one particular spot and bring individual animals to you. If they don't want you to see how the animals are being kept run like the wind. And if you're so inclined, stop and make a phone call or two to the appropriate authorities. I, for one, have absolutely zero sympathy for things like backyard/puppy mill breeders. Livestock, of course, is it's own seperate wonderful world....:)
     
  7. Lt. Wombat

    Lt. Wombat Well-Known Member

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    If these folks treat other humans this badly, makes one wonder how they treat their livestock!

    I am always on top of our website e-mail. The killer for me is those darn e-mail address harvesters that crawl your site, collect your e-mail address then the spam starts flowing like 5w-30 oil. I finally put the following on our site, “Due to spammers we no longer have a contact us button on the site. The e-mail address is webmaster at (@) brit-bran-bar-ranch dot com”. I have received a few negative replies about not having a “contact us” button or that it was too hard for them to figure out how to message us. But all in all it has almost stopped the spamming.

    We used to have our phone listed on the site but we got so many P.E.T.A. calls at 2am telling us we were “going to hell and needed to die for raising and selling animals” that we soon stopped that practice.

    I guess that is the blessing and curse of the net; your message gets to more people, but the law of averages concerning the sane and insane, puts you at a greater risk of attracting these reprobates of society.
     
  8. jelinidas

    jelinidas Member

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    We try to answer ASAP to all questions directed to us. Sometimes it takes a day or two. We love to also "just talk" about our dogs! Calling is always the quickest way, but a detailed email will get much better thought.

    If they are rude in an email, do you really want to consider their animals?
     
  9. bergere

    bergere Just living Life

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    I have had to deal with PETA type people, and it is no fun. But still....

    Lt. Wombat, I had to do the same thing with my web page,,,I took off my phone number, and I just posted a Email, and that was also the best way to get in touch with me. Still sold all the Lambs, sheep, chickens and ducks, I had for sale.
    Right now I am not breeding... sometime in the future we will be back up and running.

    jelinidas, will just keep looking. I guess when the right ones come along, the breeder willing to talk and sell the animals to me. Sigh ~ ~ ~
     
  10. leaping leon

    leaping leon Well-Known Member

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    My guess would be that some of them are the breeder equivalent of tire kickers...they just want the novelty, the "brag rights" of having a web site...Maybe also some of them think they can get around the "umpleasant reality" (to them!) of dealing with people in order to sell their animals.
    And the law of averages would be that some of them are advertising for the purpose of having people that they can jerk around, people who want to buy their perfect dogs, cattle, goats, etc. when they live in a downtown condo and never even saw a goat gace to face...

    One place I have looked at considering their NZW rabbits now informs people that they will only meet them at rabbit shows. Although I understand that potential buyers want to see where the animals live, there is also the risk of introducing serious illness from prospective buyers...we've just survived (including our cats, fortunately) a lesson in containment of contagious illnesses in our private cat rescue operation. This also means that you're not stuck waiting for a prospective buyer to show up who never does...I'm thinking of telling people that we can meet at the local farmer's market or flea market when I have animals for sale. Since we had someone come onto our property and torture and kill some of our animals I'm just not as trusting as I used to be...

    On the net, you have people on both sides who are going to reveal their true nasty selves because they think they can do it without fear of being held responsible...I actually believe that the anonimity of the web means that there are more fruitcakes and jerks surfing percentage-wise than you encounter in "real life"...and a lot of jerks you meet in real life will not reveal themselves unless they know they are safe from being held responsible...

    I almost always learn something here...Thank you MorrisonCorner, I had planned to advertise on the web eventually, and it is good to have the bad news with the good...maybe some of these people really enjoy surfing, like I do, and they thought selling through a site was going to be as easy and fun...Thank you also, Lt. Wombat, that is a really good idea about the address and I'll remember it.

    I'll have to make sure I can follow through on the commitment, and not use the web for selling until I am ready to cope with the problems.

    PS...although I really enjoy looking, I never contact someone unless I am really interested in buying...once so far and it feel through on both ends.
     
  11. GrannieD

    GrannieD Well-Known Member

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  12. bergere

    bergere Just living Life

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    Thanks GrannieD.

    My family Raises Angus cattle and sheep...well,, they just sold all the sheep due to predators.
    Anyway..
    I figured at this point,, sort'a pet steers would be easy to find. :haha:
    After dealing with cattle as a kid,, don't have any real interest in raising them. Ah Well...

    When I was selling sheep, you should of heard some of the dozzies I got.
    One of them was,, "a lady wanted a pet sheep to be house trained,, live in a appartment and go for walks with her"! For heaven sakes,, they are livestock. :rolleyes:

    Is nice to hear at least on this forum,, folks are willing to at least email back!!
     
  13. Shazza

    Shazza Well-Known Member Supporter

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    :) Bergere, have you thought about some little Dexters...you can't buy mine, but I am sure Carol K would be able to reccommend some breeders in your area. They make perfect lawnmowers. :)
     
  14. bergere

    bergere Just living Life

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    Thank you Shazza, :D Please email Carol's information to my other email at..

    Autumnhaus@aol.com
     
  15. Unregistered

    Unregistered Well-Known Member

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    We advertise on the web. We raise pheasants. Through the years we had to learn a few basics.
    Do not give phone numbers or address to people over the net. It is a sure way to loose animals.
    Do not allow people to visit your farm to check out where the animals live. There is too much chance for disease.
    Do not allow visitors with children near your livestock. There is too much chance for an accident.
    Be prepared as far as knowledge about the animal you are selling.
    If there is any disagreement at any time during the sales transaction stop the sale.
    When the sale is done you do not have any say over the animal.
    Don't expect everybody to raise animals the way you do.
    Do not sell to anyone who does not have housing for the animal.
    Do not sell an animal and agree to keep it until the buyer has a place to keep it.

    On the subject of answering emails.
    Be sure and state in the subject line what you are interested in.
    When sending an email be sure and state what you are interested in. Do not request a picture and prices on all animals they may own.
    Know something about the animal you are asking about.

    We get many emails from children who have no intention of buying anything. They can take up a lot of time that most people raising animals do not have.
    A person selling on line has to make a decision if they think the sender is really interested in buying or just has a lot of free time. We do this buy reading the email, if it is a request for prices on all animals you own, if it is a request for pictures of all animals, or if the language, spelling is childish, we do not spend time answering. If the sender is asking questions about the care, feeding, housing of the animals we let them do the research before trying to sell. If the animal you are selling is commonly availabe everywhere and the sender wants it shipped they should state the reason why.

    This might not seem fair to a lot of people but raising animals takes a lot of time. In most states children cannot legally enter into a contract to buy. We do nor deal with children, their parents should be the ones handeling the buying. They should know about the animal they are attempting to buy.
     
  16. Little Quacker in OR

    Little Quacker in OR Well-Known Member

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    :) bergere, I sure can't tell you anything 'bout buying steers, but I can tell you a lot about how to go about getting a good dog from a reliable breeder who seriously wants their dogs to go to responsible homes. Regardless of the breed of dog you are looking for.

    I don't know what your "wants" are so we'll assume you want some kind of "working" or "herding" breed. When I go looking for a "working" dog I firstly get in touch with the AKC and ask them for a list of breeders in good standing for my area(I usually get a list that includes all of the states that border on mine). Then, I start checking out the competitions that are held for what kind of "worker" that I want. For a Rottweiler I'd go from the show ring to the obedience and schutshund trials as well as herding trials and see how this line did in competition.

    If I want an Aust Cattle Dog from a working line I will go to herding trials and to AKC matches and shows and check out the dogs for physical soundness and then talk to the ones who raise the dogs I like. That way I learn who shows in trials, obedience and in the show ring. IT doesn't take very long at all to find out who in your area raises sound dogs of the breed you like and who shows them in working trials so you can see them work.

    You can take this approach for any breed of dog. If you want a sound animal, check out the dog shows and watch them...then find out about where these dogs are shown in other "working" areas..depending on the breed, that might mean watching obedience trials, agility, field trials(retrievers etc), herding trials, coursing(gaze hounds), working terrier trials etc.

    I always buy a dog from a sound working line and deal with excellant breeders and reputable people. You can make some lifelong friends like this and you always know if there is anything that goes wrong you have a place to ask for help if you need it( and you will get it) or to return the dog to. I never met a breeder that I've found like this that wouldn't readily refer me to another good person who bred good dogs also if I wanted something a bit different or maybe even better timing from a litter birth. I used to insist on getting a pup at the start of my vacation times. This took some doing sometimes, but I always made it work. LOL

    Also, if the breeding that I decided on was a goodly distance away the breeder would always meet me halfway with the pup, which was a great help
    .
    I hope you do OK and find a good dog. ;)

    LQ
     
  17. Ken in Maine

    Ken in Maine Well-Known Member

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    We get a large number of emails everyday asking about our livestock. We DO answer each and every one but sometimes it gets very frustrating. The one I especially remember is " what do u have for sell and how much are they". I tell them goats and the price ranges from $50.00 and up.

    When I go on line looking for livestock I try to search out websites that have a good deal of information that comes as close as possible to my management style. I very seldom inquiry by e-mail. It is easy enough to go to switchboard.com and get their telephone number and call ( at the appropriate time).. Don't call at meal time or when they might be feeding and doing chores.

    If someone blows you off.. scratch their name and move on to someone else. You shouldn't have to force someone to sell to you.

    INSIST on a farm visit... if they won't let you come to their farm to see for yourself... scratch their name and move on to someone else.If they won't let you visit THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE!!!

    Just as there many reputable breeders there are equally (if not more) jerks.

    Be realistic with your expectation... Don't spent lots of time looking at $20,000.00 alpacas when you can only afford angora rabbits.

    Deal with breeders who are willing to do follow up with you.... if they have to be forced into selling to you they certainly won't spend anytime with you after the sale.

    Don't get too worked up about being rejected by some breeders... they're not the people you would want to deal with anyway.
     
  18. MaKettle

    MaKettle Well-Known Member

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    I got my "perfect dog" from the local shelter. She is a mutt, but perfect for us. In the beginning she was terribly insecure and shy, so we joined the obedience club. Now I know lots of people who have invested their love, time, and lives in raising dogs not only for show, but also for brains. It is a delightful way to meet both the dogs and the breeders, and watch them in action--or interaction. One thing they have in common, is that they all think their breed is "perfect", and they all will admit "perfect except for a tendency to..." Each breed has its good points and drawbacks. So read up on each breed (Google), decide what you want the dog to do and how it will interact with your family. A big, boisterous dog needing lots of physical activity is probably not a good fit for sedentary people. Some breeds are characterized as needing a firm hand. Some are highly nervous. Do your homework before contacting breeders. A short, specific question is more likely to be answered than a general one. And then go to the shelter--your "perfect" dog may be waiting for you.
     
  19. Carol K

    Carol K Well-Known Member

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    Bergere,
    I have emailed you someone to try in Oregon for dexters, if it doesn't pan out let me know and I will give you more names.

    Carol K
     
  20. Tango

    Tango Well-Known Member

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    I haven't experience that level of neglect from small farms Bergere. Are you are looking at rare or uncommon breeds? The moment you start looking into those you will find a lot of dead ends like you are experiencing. A lot of the e-mails are no longer valid or checked by somone who got out of the particular breed because it wasn't going anywhere. Breed registries are notorious for leaving out-dated information up. A lot of the phone messages get lost on a desk covered with other messages, bills, letters, magazines, etc. I had that problem last year when I was looking for a particular breed of livestock. Only two people in the U.S. were advertising and they must have been bombarded with potential buyers. This year I staarted early, before the season, and have spoken to both breeders already.

    From my perspective as a business owner, I agree with the "tire kicker," problem filling up my inbox. Another problem just as time-consuming is the information scavenger. I gave a lot of free advice and free information that had cost me years and money in trial and error to figure out for myself. I started to resent that and began to filter my calls and e-mails. When I started I had 500 anytime minutes on my cell phone and most months that was taken by people who claimed to be interested in buying something but in the end only wanted free information. A good business owner begins to discern between the serious potential customer, the tire kickers, and information scavengers. For instance, the other day I got a call from someone in the Bahamas. If he wants to, he can call me back and leave a more detailed message or e-mail me- I prefer e-mails with details. Knowing I can't ship to the Bahamas- I am not interested in wasting my time. My gut feeling is that he has no idea what shipping costs are (in whch case he will back out as soon as he hears it) or he wants free advice. Forums like this one relieve the problem of tire kickers and information scavengers for small businesses. I don't mind coming on here and asking questions, reading information, or sharing my knowledge. This is really the place to do that.