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106 pairs and counting
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Opinions please!
:D
I recently made contact with a woman on craigslist. She is having family trouble and cannot keep all her goats. She's a home milker, and is in a bad spot, looking for good homes for her goats. These are from registered parents, but she never registered them, so these are being sold as "registerable." I have told her that if I come visit I will come with what I need to draw blood and test for disease before bringing them home. She inly wants $75 per goat--which throws me for a loop, but, if they are decent goats, I would like to take the opportunity....I need advice, however. Can you please give me your opinions on them. What do you think of the looks of them, thierudder attachments (if you can tell from the photos). What do you think of the black/whit one? Doesnt her haircoat look a bit dry? Why do her eyes look sort of hazy? Maybe its just the photos. At any rate, I am considering going to look at them on Sunday, but it is going to be quite a bit out of my way. Do you think it's worthwhile even to bother checking them out based on what you see here? Here is her email back to me describing her animals:

"Thanks for you interest in our goats. All our goats are healthy and have tested negative for CAE. I have not had them tested recently, but they are from all CAE negative stock. I do not take my goats to shows because I am afraid they will catch something. All of our goats are very gentle. They are from registered goats, but I do not register the kids. I raise my goats for pets and not for show, although they are from show goats. I enjoy milking my goats and spending time with them. I will take some pictures of them in the next day or two and e-mail the pictures.

I have one red doe, Henrietta, who is 2 years old. She kidded in April 08 with a buckling and a doeling, Daphne. I sold the buck and the doeling is for sale also. She is black and white. I have a tan and white doe, Faye, who is 2 years old. She kidded last April with one buckling. I sold the buckling. I have a one buck, Fennell, who is two years old. He is not related to any of the does I have for sale. He is white, black, and brown. I have another buck, Booker, who is 4 years. He is black and white. He is not related to the does I have for sale. Henrietta and Faye were both milked for several months after the kids were weaned. My mother and grandmother who live on the farm where I live are in poor health. I had to give up milking for awhile to take care of them."





DAPHNE



FAYE




HENRIETTA

I cant believe I managed to post pics on HT without any trouble! YAY :banana02:
 

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106 pairs and counting
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Forgot to add they are not in milk now, and they are not bred.
 

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The black and white one has blue eyes, I think that is why they look different to you. And her coat may be frosted along her back. I have a frosted black and he looks like that all over.
 

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Pook's Hollow
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Take 'em! The udders on the last two look quite decent for Nigerians. :D
 

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I think they look cute! If I was in the market I would go take a look at them. How far away is she from you? :)
 

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Katie
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I would definately go look at all her goats & check them over good but like pookshollow said their udders look pretty good, and for $75.00. If you want registered show stock you will have to pay MUCH higher prices. I would make sure they would stand on a milk stand for you & that they are pretty nice & easy to handle too. Nigerians are generally very friendly goats though & remember they won't know you so take that into consideration too.
I do think they might have a bit of a copper deficiency since in Faye's picture it looks like her tail is maybe fishtailing some. They probly need a higher copper mineral, probly nothing serious.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks everyone--I do want to go see them and I think based on your responses, I will. She is quite a distance from my house, but, I do have to go to her general area tomorrow for a class, it will take me half hour extra out of my way to get to her place from my class, then another half hour back to where my class is. Then an hour and a half home again! But, since I will be over there, I should take the opportunity, if they turn out to be good stock and disease free, registerable dairy goats at $75 is a steal. I have 3 small kids though, and dont want to put my husband out all day taking care of them for a waste of time. I have no experience with Nigerians, so wasnt even sure if these look right or not. But they do seem to be a sweet bunch, and I would love to meet another goat family. I think I will go considering your comments. Thanks!

I hope to hear more opinions if anyone wants to chime in!:D
 

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I would say go for it, especially if she'll let you test them. Make sure you have something in writing for her to hold them until the tests come back tho, and I personally wouldn't hold the goats for someone unless I had money down. Even if they are neg. you could always back out and cost her a sale.

They look to have nice capacious udders with good teat size. I really like the solid red doe. The black doeling is just from 08, so she may just have her kid coat in the pic, which is rarely shiney and perfect and she definately has blue eyes. If you can get breeding slips from her to reg. them, they are worth a lot more especially if from good bloodlines, which I think those udders hint at.
 

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What do you want them to do for you? That will help us evaluate them better for you.

There is no such thing as a good udder "for a Nigerian". A good udder is a good udder. There are some NDs with udders far better than their larger counterparts (even of otherwise equal quality). Since we milk our goats, we want them to be built correctly in all aspects and we want them to produce.

Nigerians are supposed to look like a dairy goat proportionately scaled down to size. The most common thing you will here is take a good Alpine and shrink it and that is what it is supposed to look like.
 

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106 pairs and counting
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hi again--
Hoofinit--Thanks for your post--Home milking, mainly, for dairy and soap. Also, although my children are young now, and I have no official plans for showing, someday, I imagine possibly getting into showing maybe as a family endeavor. Also, I want a nice buck with which to fiddle around breeding mini-saanens with my saanen doe. I'd like to sell the kids as both registered and unregistered pets and milkers.

I wont be purchasing 3 does either, I want 1-2 does and a buck and wether. So, of the three pictured here, which look best? I know the black and white is younger than the others, but still wondering your general opinion based on the pics and what you might know of conformation. Of course I will know more seeing them in person, but its nice heading over there having read some of your POVs on them prior to going. Mainly I am curious if something really sticks out at your that SHOULDNT be there on a ND.

Thanks!
Alisa~
 

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West Central Minnesota
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The does pictured in milk are beautiful. Why are they not bred for next Spring?
I would take them..........personally skip the testing...$75 is a steal.......
If you are looking for home milk they will need to be bred...so buy one of the bucks too.
I have Boer goats now, I used to have a milking herd of Alpines.......Nice looking Nigerians. Nice size udders and good teat size so you can hand milk..
If I were closer I would be on my way....but Minnesota is too far.
 

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OK, well these are not the best photos from which to evaluate but I will give you the things that stick out to my amateur eyes.

Daphne - black & white. Blue eyes always look strange to me (and I do own one blue-eyed jr. doe now). I don't breed for color, including eye color, so unless there is something wrong with the eyes, I don't let it bother me either way. This doe is shown dry so we can't evaluate her udder from a picture. Getting our hands on her might tell us teat size & placement and even some attachment information, but you really have to know what you're doing, especially if the doe has never kidded or doesn't have much "residual" udder. She doesn't say how old Daphne is. I think I am reading her email right, so that Daphne is Faye's doe. Is that right?

I am concerned about Daphne's rear - it looks steep. However, it does look long and if we look to her hocks, they are appropriately spaced. She may be "hunching" as if nervous or cold. This is where a handful of shots comes in to play. Also, seeing her move in person and stand set-up or left idle without knowing you are there would help you evaluate better.

Daphne also looks to be very downhill. At first I thought it was the angle of the photo, but the inside legs *seem* to be lined up on level ground. You would have to get some other shots and see her move to be sure. From this, her shoulder also appears to be quite upright. I would want to see some shots of her feet & legs where she is standing square. That inside front leg is either turned or she is just holding it that way as the camera caught her in mid-step. I also think she is down in the pasterns a little bit more than I like. She does have nice bone and appears to have decent rear-leg angulation. I would want to check her copper supplementation program as this doe already looks to be getting ruddy in the stifle area. It may be the camera & lighting playing tricks on her color, though.

Faye - this is not a bad goat overall. I would want to see more of her to see if she has a downhill stance. She does have decent shape to her rear legs, as well as adequate width. Her udder is superior to Faye's in that it is better supported and the teats may be slightly better set. If you set her rear legs under her pins, you would probably see a nice rear udder on her. She looks to have appropriate capacity - both in mammary and body. She appears to be a deep doe, or it's possible she's pictured while pregnant. I would want to see more pictures of her chine to see if it is really as dippy as it looks here. I wonder about her escutcheon, as I do with all three of these girls. High, wide, and open is what you want, to help her mammary capacity. She also has good bone and it appears that she has a good broadness to her, but it's hard to tell without a rear/front view (just looking at the light shining on her side). Her rump looks to be a bit short & steep for my liking but I would ask about the kidding with that singleton and how big he was. This girl reminds me of the older style NDs with the bigger body style. More a foundation look. I really appreciate this body style in certain does and I wouldn't let it scare you off. She isn't quite as dairy as we're used to seeing these days, but dairy doesn't have to mean "over-refined". ;) I'd like to look at her shoulder in a better shot, and her pasterns as well. Feel for her width from hips, to thurls, to pins when you get there.

Henrietta (love the name) - She has a lovely, shiney coat but I don't like her udder. It looks to be sagging and this worries me, especially for a 2-year-old. She does seem to have decent udder capacity but it worries me that her udder will not hold up over time. If she is Daphne's dam, I would want to know if this girl has the downhill stance & steep rump that appears to be in the first doe. If not, then I'd ask to see the buck that sired Daphne. If he doesn't have these traits either, it's anybody's guess from where they came. I would like to see her feet and pasterns up close. She looks a bit more dairy than the other two, but I don't care for her ear set, nor do I like her rear legs. They seem close at the hocks and they seem to point out, BUT again, it could be the way she's standing. Candid shots are hard to evaluate!

Overall I can't see anyone's brisket or neck/shoulder tie-ins. It's hard to judge body capacity, escutcheons, attachments, feet, etc.

If I had to choose from these three photos alone, I'd pick Faye.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks Heather!
I was acually thinking the same thing about Henriettas udder. It did seem slightly "drooped" to me and I have to agree from the photo it seems like a concern over time that she could have issues. I happen to like Faye best from the pics. I do like the look of the solid red one, but not certain about the udder--I will check it tomorrow.
Thanks again!
Alisa~
 

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what Heather said...

Henrietta's issue is a low rear udder with a weak rear attachment. A good udder had strong ligament attachments and will pull a dry udder up close to the body. Her fore udder attachment looks strong but short, possibly with a pocket.

Overall, these are not terrible does at all, and I think with the use of a buck who will fix the topline and udder issues, you could have the makings of a very nice herd. At $75 apiece, you can buy all of them and decide who you like later.

About the "registerable" thing- don't hand over any money until you have completed, signed registration applications for every doe. The does will need to be tattooed for registration if they aren't already.
 

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First one is very steep hips to pins. Third very low rear udder. Second looks the best. But again, pix can be deceiving. Can you relay who the parents are of these goats? That will help me a lot in determing the background.
And yes, if they are registerable, please be sure to get reg. applications - signed!
For $75 apiece, given the health test results, I'd take a chance.
 

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I think those goats are LOVELY for the price that is being asked.
None of these goats are in a "show" stance, so they are going to look a little hunched up or off balance. I am sure everyone here knows how hard it is to get a backyard goat into a picture perfect stance long enough to snap a picture.

I would take them. I would make an extra trip - they look really, really good. Especially the middle girl. Backyard goats are not show goats. I wouldn't be fussing over steep pins in a $75 goat. Breed them to a nice buck and you are sure to get lovely babies.

You will learn more from watching them in 20 minutes that you could from staring at a picture forever. If they are good movers, willing to get up on the milk stand, let you handle them all over, rub their udder, pick up their feet, and all that good stuff then they are well worth the price and more.

I second about the registration though, get every paper signed...it wil never happen later - Good luck with your new goats.
 
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Thanks Heather!
I was acually thinking the same thing about Henriettas udder. It did seem slightly "drooped" to me and I have to agree from the photo it seems like a concern over time that she could have issues. I happen to like Faye best from the pics. I do like the look of the solid red one, but not certain about the udder--I will check it tomorrow.
Thanks again!
Alisa~
I wouldn't worry too much about that one's udder. If they are healthy, at $75/ea, you can afford to bring in (or AI to) a great buck. My first doe, an unregistered 7yo Alpine with a pendulous udder, when bred to my former Boer buck, produced a doe with a spectacular udder. She was bred back to him before we lost him and had 2 doelings, so we are interested to see how they will freshen when they're ready.

CAE & CL free, I'd scoop them up.
 

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I'd go look at them, and probably get them all and see how they freshen, presuming the tests come back OK. You are trying to get milk for your family, after all, and these are some very inexpensive goats with some very nice attributes. The young kid does indeed look downhill, but then, most goats that age go through a "butt high" stage. Then they grow out of it. She looks a little hocky, and her pasterns aren't as up as they should be, but look at her hooves? Have they ever been trimmed? That can cause the appearance of both problems, and a good trim can fix it.

Rumps are more steep than I like in all three, but hey, these aren't show stock, and you're not paying $300 or more for them. You're looking for milkers, and given the apparent capacity, and teat size and placement on the fresh does, these should fill the bill without too much trouble. I ESPECIALLY like that she's been milking them. So many Nigerian people breed for show conformation, without regard to body capacity (which these girls seem to have in abundance). And they never milk their goats, so they have no idea what their goats can actually put into the milk bucket.

I like the udder capacity, and teat size and placement on these girls, from what I can see. Show comments: Rear udder is low in both cases. Faye's looks low for real. With Henrietta, we don't know how many hours' milk she was carrying when the pciture was taken. In my experience, the rear udder is the last to fill and the first to empty, so if Henrietta has kids on her, or is carrying only 8 hours or so of milk, I wouldn't expect to see much rear udder on display. Doesn't mean it isn't there. I'm not seeing poor rear attachment on Henrietta, either. Her rear attachment is halfway down her thigh, and again, her udder looks far from full, so I think that's pretty good.

And I love the fact that these does are sleek while they're milking. In some does, that means they aren't producing much milk, but the size of the not-full udder, in Henrietta's case at least, would tend to make me think that is not the situation here. Some does, and these may be such does, are able because of superior body capacity to produce a lot of milk, and still stay well-fleshed, which helps them stay healthy. I have NO problem with a well-fleshed, heavily lactating doe. It makes me happy to see it. I've had does who throw everything they eat straight into the milk pail. They just aren't as hardy as the does who keep a little something for themselves, and they don't milk any better in the long run, in my experience. In fact, they'll get too skinny and cut back on production, while a powerhouse doe will happily keep on making milk.

Faye has better foreudder support, Henrietta's fore is rather abrupt. She could have quite a pocket there, but very heavy milkers frequently develop pockets in their first year if pushed to produce. Some people do everything they can to prevent heavy lactation in this type of first-freshener just to preserve the attachment. Luckily, a good medial suspensory ligament, which both of these girls seem to possess, will keep the udder up, despite a poor foreudder attachment.

If you can only get one of the milkers, I'd lean toward Henrietta. I'd ask how many hours of milk she was carrying in the photo, or whether the kids had free access to her that day (which is how it looks). I'd also, of course, ask what the production is on both does, including lactation length. You also want to ask about letdown and milkstand manners, since problems in either area can make milking a less-than-pleasant experience.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
YALL! I am so bummed. She sold them before I could get there. I was on my way over there when I called to confirm. She sold them at 4 AM (!!!) last night to someone who raced over there to pick them up from Savannah GA, which is 8 hrs away from here! He paid her $150 per doe because he thought she was asking too little! (he was probably right...) I am glad they went to a good home (she says he was a good goat person)--BUT!--let me tell you I have learned my lesson about keeping a better secret on a public forum! I dont know if anyone from this board saw this post and ran over there, and I wouldnt blame a person if they did, but, I'll be a bit more discreet next time! Thank you all for posting your comments--I have learned a lot from your responses and evaluations. I am ini the market for 2 nigie does and a buck, so this will help me when I go to purchase in the future. Maybe come spring we will get ourselves some bottle babies.....
GRRRR! Oh well, not meant to be I guess....
 

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oh wow! ok...if it's someone from here, fess up!! It wasn't me, I'm in South Dakota lol!
 
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