what are other's opinions?

Discussion in 'Pigs' started by Misty, Jun 24, 2005.

  1. Misty

    Misty Misty Gonzales

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  2. Ronney

    Ronney Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but after eating domestic pork reared on a variety of foods, and wild pork that has grazed pine forests and native bush, I couldn't go along with that at all. And if you have any doubt, feed the pig fish as a large part of it's diet and then tell me that it's food has nothing to do with taste. Fish fed pork is absolutely foul.

    A pig is what it eats and is reflected in the taste. While it's handling after slaughter will have some bearing on it's quality in terms of tenderness, bone taint, etc. it has nothing at all to do with the flavour.

    Cheers,
    Ronnie
     

  3. GeorgeK

    GeorgeK Well-Known Member

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    Most people raise large livestock, as such, you simply will not have the numbers to have a statistically significant insight on the feed and meat connection or lack thereof. You will be eating one pig or steer for months, and during that time if the meat wasn't stored in airtight wrapping, like vacuum pack it will gradually ruin the meat in terms of flavor. Of those who might have the numbers, few of you actually do your own butchering and so can not control for the variables in the butchering process, nor can you be certain the meat you got is from the animal you took to the processor. If you have one animal where the meat tastes bad you are simply assuming that the feed was the problem. I raise potbellies for meat, they are raised organically on free range pasture and daily treats of corn to train them to the paddock. I do the butchering myself, and have been doing so for around ten years. I've probably butchered somewhere in the 70-100 range of pigs (Boars, sows, gilts etc). I've tried feeding fish from the ponds, road kill possums, habanero peppers. I've gone with pasturing and no castration since that is the least cost and the least work, and have found the only things that matter are proper killing, bleeding, butchering and aging and storage.

    Killing needs to be quick and a surprise, an agitated animal might impart some off flavors, so I do not separate them, pigs are social. Their stomachs are empty in the morning, just toss some corn and pick the one I want to shoot and shoot it in the head.

    Bleeding...Shooting them in the head only stuns them for about 3 minutes before they die. If you dont stick them, the blood stays in the meat and gives it a metallic taste

    Butchering...dont spill bile or stool or urine or the meat will have an old shoe taste

    Aging helps with texture and a little with flavor. 10 days in the fridge before cooking or freezing

    Storage needs to be air tight. Butchering paper simply does not work. Ziplock bags will work for about 6 weeks. Get a vacuum packer if you are going to be doing it yourself, they cost about 100 bucks and the vacuum packing can be re-used about 3 times
     
  4. Misty

    Misty Misty Gonzales

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    "feed the pig fish as a large part of it's diet and then tell me that it's food has nothing to do with taste. Fish fed pork is absolutely foul."
    Ronny, you are absolutly right. For a while, people in the show industry would feed fish meal to burn unwanted fat when they were looking for freaky heavy muscled hogs...You couldn't eat the meat and it smelled like fish when you would cook it....


    a beef or hog either one has NEVER lasted year in my freezer. We are happy with the meat from beginning to end.


    George IMHO you are just plain incorrect. :)
     
  5. GeorgeK

    GeorgeK Well-Known Member

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    well buckshot...when you have raised, butchered and eaten 100 pigs, and tried all the myths like I have I might re-appraise or at least re-look at my notes on all of the above, which have been done in as scientific method as one person might do. Until then, I will work by and preach about my progress. Until then, I will consider your words hearsay and wivestales
     
  6. GeorgeK

    GeorgeK Well-Known Member

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    No offense to the wives, that's just part of the english language. Most fisherMEN have had far more unbelievable tales than the Women
     
  7. Siryet

    Siryet In Remembrance

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    at this point of the discussion why don't you just feed all the crap food you want to your food animals and others will feed theirs as they wish to and all will be happy.

    I think the scientist and dietitians know what they are talking about and that is one reason animal by-products are no longer allowed in most livestock feeds.

    I respect your wishes and I expect you to respect others wishes.
     
  8. Ronney

    Ronney Well-Known Member

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    George, you are entitled to your view but please don't treat others as inexperienced idiots and fools.

    I have bred, reared, fed and slaughtered pigs for close on 30 years, both for the family and other people. During that time I have sold literally thousands of weaners and probably slaughtered over 1,000 porkers. Although I no longer grow porkers for the market, when I was doing so, the demand outstriped the supply - and the reason was flavour. And the flavour had little or nothing to do with slaughtering or processing techniques, it was quite simply what I had fed them. And I put the work and time in to produce a decent pig including milking cows. There is no lazy method to producing a good porker. All mine are pastured and none are castrated.

    My family eats on average of a beast a year, a mutton a month and three pigs a year. The butcher deals with the beast as we don't have the facilities to handle an animal that large. The sheep and pigs we slaughter and process ourselves and because we don't like waste they are handled correctly. I think I just may have a "statisically significant insight" into what goes into procuding and keeping meat.

    A well-placed shot in the head doesn't stun them, it kills them. If it takes 3 minutes for them to die, there is something very wrong. If in doubt, pour water into the ear. If it reacts shoot it again and quickly. Mine are shot and stuck within the minute.

    I never change the routine of the animal that is going to slaughter by not feeding it. That immediately tells it that something is going on and pigs are not stupid. I carry on as usual and if they have a full gut, so be it. Getting them upset in any way sets the adrenilan going and can be the cause of tougher meat although it will have no impact on the taste.

    Cheers,
    Ronnie
     
  9. Tango

    Tango Well-Known Member

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    I think both points of view are extremly important and sensible. The way an animal is butchered, the time one takes between shot and stick, the animal's stress or lack thereof at butchering time (there are university studies on animal stress at butchering time and it has revamped the slaughterhouse designs), the way the meat is handled will all affect the taste. And it is very important to flavor. A few Christmases ago before I raised pigs myself we purchased a pig at a Mexican's house. He shot her, waited for her to stop kicking, stuck her and then scalded in water that had been sitting in a vat for a while - who knows how many pigs or days worth of sitting. That was the most disgusting pork I've ever eaten and it almost turned me off to pork altogether. It had the smell of a dirty pig- the smell that turns a lot of people off to pork. that is not a natural smell to the meat- it is the result of poor butchering hygiene.
    I don't finish off my pigs. They're fed a diverse and fresh natural diet their entire lives so I really can't tell you if the taste of the meat changes. I have had very different tasting pork when I was buying pork and I've raised different pigs and decided I liked the wild pig the best in raising, breeding, and eating. I couldn't get the same taste and texture from domestic, commerical, or supermarket pork. To an extent that is true about home raising vs commerical raising; the meat will be different because of the variables. I've also heard the stories about finishing off a pig with acorns, corn, grass, etc. will affect the meat. I've been told to finish a steer off with corn instead of grass because of the taste. I'm sure there is something to it.

    The castration bit is something we've gone around and around on. I don't castrate my boars but they are butchered as piglets before 25 pounds. If I wait longer the meat has a very strong urine smell to it. It has to do with a hormone in the boars. These are wild pigs- so domestic ones might not have the same thing going on so early.

    I think it is important to note that we are not just talking about subjective taste but we're speaking of cultural taste as well. What passes for pork at a U.S. counter might be very different from what passes for pork in Australia or China, not just between my house and Ronney's house or George's house, or buckshot's house.... I've had a few years experience with my pigs and it has been a learning experience all the way. I've decided on diet, pen size, butchering, and breed all based on my subjective taste and philosophy. Most of us can come up with methods we feel comfortable with, work for us, and grace our tables.
     
  10. Misty

    Misty Misty Gonzales

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    Well George.....I never said ANYTHING about the way you process it....I was only referring to what you feed it. Maybe you need to re-read or re-appraise my notes........


    "The castration bit is something we've gone around and around on. I don't castrate my boars but they are butchered as piglets before 25 pounds. If I wait longer the meat has a very strong urine smell to it. It has to do with a hormone in the boars. These are wild pigs- so domestic ones might not have the same thing going on so early.""

    Ronny,we also will not butcher in an intact male....we cut all our boars at 2 weeks old, and we AI.

    www.geocities.com/buckshotboers2003
    www.geocities.com/gonzalesshowpigs
     
  11. Misty

    Misty Misty Gonzales

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  12. Tango

    Tango Well-Known Member

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    That was my quote above buckshot, not Ronney's. He doesn't castrate and butchers much later than I butcher boars. That was why I said we've gone around the castration bit. Very interesting thread, you might be able to pull it up. Ronney leaves boars in tact until he butchers before sexual maturity. If I left my boars in tact and butchered at 5 months I would be unable to be anywhere near the meat cooking. The smell would send me into a puking fit.
     
  13. Misty

    Misty Misty Gonzales

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    oh, geesh, sorry Tango, but I agree with you completly....wrong person, right thought.
     
  14. GeorgeK

    GeorgeK Well-Known Member

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    Lets see now, you've eaten all these 1000 pigs in 30 years and so can verify the quality of the meat personally... Assuming a live butchering weight of 230 pounds you would have to consume 10.5 poinds of pork each and every day over that 30 year span. :no:



     
  15. Misty

    Misty Misty Gonzales

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    I guess I understood it as slaughtering 1000's for him/herself AND others...not personal consumption of 1000 hogs. Nothing idicating that Ronny ate all the pigs he/she slaughtered him/herself
    www.geocities.com/buckshotboers2003
    www.geocities.com/gonzalesshowpigs
     
  16. TabletopHomestead

    TabletopHomestead Well-Known Member

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    Then there's us, who'll butcher and eat a boar up to about a year or 18 months. We've found the gross smell is in the fat, which we generally carve off of everything anyway, a habit we got into while processing venison. But's it's perfectly OK with me of other people do it differently. My motto is "There's more than one way to skin a cat."

     
  17. Misty

    Misty Misty Gonzales

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    isnt' that the truth....