What about Meningeal Worm????

Discussion in 'Goats' started by Milk n' Honey, Oct 2, 2006.

  1. Milk n' Honey

    Milk n' Honey Well-Known Member

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    As many of you know, I've been treating my buck for Polio. He is not responding well. He is getting worse. I am doing the correct treatment for it and I caught it early. Most people have reported a turn-around in a day or less with Polio. It will have been 6 days tomorrow. He is now getting weak in his legs. It started with the hind legs...walking stiffly. Now his front is doing the same thing. I read on another forum about Meningeal Worm and I started researching it. Guess what.....we have lots of deer and also some standing water where he was housed for several months. It was a very wet season and Meningeal worm almost always presents itself in late summer or fall, after the animal has grazed in that location for a couple of months. The cycle of the worm takes that long. Also, we do have plenty of snails, given the wet conditions. What do you all think? Ever seen this disease? I am calling the vet about it in the morning. I would love for this to be the answer as the current treatment isn't doing the trick. He is getting worse. I'm giving such high doses of Thiamine, it is ridiculous....1000-1200 mg 2-3 times/day. It is in the Fort. B. Complex but that should matter right? That is the dosage of Thiamine he is getting. The bottle says 100mg/ml. I've been giving 10 ml and last dose was 12 ml. Do you think it could be the Meningeal worm? It presents itself in the same manner as Polio and many other brain diseases plus we have the perfect conditions to create such a problem. Figures. I didn't even know about this Meningeal worm. I'll let you know what the vet says. Goodnight!
     
  2. Patty0315

    Patty0315 Well-Known Member

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    Brain worm is treated by large doses of ivermectin. Did you give him Tetnaus antitoxin ?? With the hoof wound there is a chance it is tetnaus also.

    Patty
     

  3. AllWolf

    AllWolf We love all our animals

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    Milk n Honey I have done some research on that type of worm you was talking about and here is the link I found it maybe the same one.
    Meningeal Worm It also tells that all types of animals can be infected by this type of worm. The treatment of it is Ivermectin and it is Ivomec.. I put in the keyword in jefferslivestock site and it came up with Ivomec and I done more research and the keyword on jefferslivestock site I put in was Ivermectin and it came up 100% with Ivomec.. Have you ever used that to treat any of your goats with that drug? Other than that I can only tell you what I have found out throughout my research this morn. The only way of knowing if and animal has this worm is it has to be dead.. Gosh I hate that word but here is what part of my research says.. There is no way to definitively diagnose meningeal worm in a live animal. Finding clinical signs (symptoms) and laboratory values consistent with meningeal worm are used to make a diagnosis of meningeal worm. In a dead animal, the spinal cord can be cut into slices and examined microscopically for P. tenuis. This is currently the only way to definitively diagnose meningeal worm. The worms are difficult to find and even though no worms are found, the animal may still have had a meningeal worm infection.

    On treatment is this. There are many options for treating a case of meningeal worm. None have been proven to be effective in a controlled study. All treatments include some type of dewormer along with steroids and anti-inflammatory agents. The dewormers kill the parasite while steroids and anti-inflammatory agents prevent damaging inflammation and swelling of the spinal cord from the dying parasites. The dewormers which have been used are TBZ, levamisole, diethylcarbamazine, ivermectin and fenbendazole. The dosages and durations of treatment all vary. These dewormers are used in goats all the time.. Ivermectin is Ivomec and fenbendazole is safe guard wormer. You can put in the keywords in on jefferson site like use for keyword Ivermectin and it will come up with Ivomec and keyword fenbendazole is safe guard products.

    Maybe I have been some help to you.. Good Luck on your little goat and keep at it because if he does have that worm and you can get treatment for him he may pull right out of it. All animals with good supportive care will recover better than without good supportive care from that type of worm. So they can get better.

    Here is more research I done on that worm.. This is from a Cooperative Extension about that
    Meningeal Worm

    Meningeal worm or brain worm is caused by a parasite that is carried by deer. This parasite is passed in the manure and picked up by an intermediate host of snail and slugs. Goats pick up the parasite when they eat small snails or slugs on pasture grasses. This parasite is very difficult to control once a goat has become infected, therefore it is important to prevent infection.

    Because snails and slugs live in a wet environment, you can help prevent the infection by keeping goats away from wet areas in pastures during late summer and early fall. At this time, you may also want to move to a very aggressive deworming program where goats are given deworming products every two to three weeks until a hard frost. Use the highest recommended dosage for the product at this time of the year.

    Signs of brain worm infection include a loss of control in the hind legs of the animal, although the front legs can also be affected. Occasionally, goats will be only mildly affected and will recover after treatment with deworming products. Affected animals will continue to eat, but are unable to walk. At this stage it is best to have the animal put down.


    If your goat does have polio here is what I found and this information is from a really good site.

    Symptoms of Polioencephalomalacia are excitability, "stargazing," uncoordinated staggering and/or weaving (ataxia), circling, diarrhea, muscle tremors, and apparent blindness. Initial symptoms can look like Entertoxemia (overeating disease). There is a component of "overeating" involved in that the rumen flora has been compromised. As the disease progresses, convulsions and high fever occur, and if untreated, the goat generally dies within 24-72 hours.

    Diagnosis is available via laboratory tests, but the producer does not have the luxury of the time that such tests take. Thiamine is the only effective therapy, and treatment can result in improvement in as little as two hours, if the disease is caught early enough. Thiamine is a veterinary prescription but very inexpensive. Producers should always keep thiamine on hand. Dosage is related to body weight; 10 mg/kg should be given every six hours for at least 24 hours. (One kilogram equals 2.2 pounds.) Initially, IV dosage is best, but SQ or IM can be used. Some producers even give thiamine orally after the initial treatment. If thiamine is unavailable but the producer has multiple B vitamins on hand, make sure the dosage is based upon the amount of thiamine in the multiple B vitamins. The key to overcoming Goat Polio is early diagnosis and treatment. Complete recovery is possible under such circumstances.

    To read more go to this link GOAT POLIO OR LISTERIOSIS other than what I have post for you is all I can do..

    Just trying to help out..
    Good Luck and take care.
     
  4. moonspinner

    moonspinner Well-Known Member

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    My friend had two animals die from this. Her experience was a long drawn out one, with the leg weakness the primary symptom. Even though she caught it early and her vet was on top of it, she finally had to have them put down. Not sure your goat's symptoms indicative of men. worm.
     
  5. susanne

    susanne Nubian dairy goat breeder

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    was your buck tested for cae? C =Caprine A =Arthritis E=Encephalitis

    what to you feed him? polio and/or listeriosis always food related. if you did not change the food he is not getting better.
    Meningal worm some times can be seen from migrating at the collar area on the neck. you can see this as little leasions.
    this parasite is transmitted from white tail ddeer and immediate host are snails. your vet should draw blood and analyse it for you to find out as this can be diagnosed with blood.
    did you take his temperature?
     
  6. Milk n' Honey

    Milk n' Honey Well-Known Member

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    He is eating only grass hay and has fresh water. I've seen Listeriosis and this doesn't look like that. I read where you have to tap fluid from around the brain to check for Meningeal worm and then sometimes they can still have it and not show up in the test. We have lots of deer and lots of snails so that is why I thought of the connection. His symptoms do follow the symptoms I've read about it but there are other things it could be. Also guess he could have permanant brain damage. Whatever it is though, it isn't over as he still has brain swelling or I don't think he be pressing his head against stuff. I am going to continue the Vitamin B Complex shots (1200 ml Thiamine) 3x/day and I'm going to treat for the Meningeal worm, just in case. I'm not sure what injectible ivermectic to use....the one for cattle OK? I know it hurts but at this point, he may die so I've got to try it.

    Moonspinner - Your thinking that he should have maybe shown signs of leg weakness first before the other symptoms? That is one thing I'm not sure about. Maybe it would affect that first???? Hmmmm.....
     
  7. Milk n' Honey

    Milk n' Honey Well-Known Member

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    Susanne - He hasn't been tested, as far as I know. However, I didn't think that CAE presented itself as a neurological disorder?? Am I wrong about this?
     
  8. susanne

    susanne Nubian dairy goat breeder

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    yes you are wrong about this.
    instead of trying thousend things on him and make his life more miserable you should put him down.
     
  9. lgslgs

    lgslgs Well-Known Member

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    Deer worm is nasty. Ivermectin is not the current recommended treatment. Have your vet check with his local university vet school for current recos or call University of Ohio vet school where they have a lot of experience with it.

    Deer worm often looks like a John Wayne style walk in the back end, but sometimes will show with front end weakness and no back end problems.

    We lost one to deer worm, and a second was treated agressively and fully recovered. The treatment involved several types of antibiotic, anti-inflammatories, and B-6 supplement. If your vet has no first hand experience with deer worm and would like to talk personally with our local vet, PM me. She took one look at our goats and figured it was deer worm even though it didn't look like what we expected from web searches and from seeing it once as an advanced case in a friend's herd.

    The doe we lost was confirmed as having deerworm after necropsy at Ohio University's ag disease center. It was horrible - Opal was fading fast and after talking with the vet we realized the best thing to do was euthanasia. Letting the disease center do a live exam and then necropsy would let them have a chance to see a live goat with deerworm and then study they physical evidence in detail. We drove two hours to get her ther, with her fading and me laying in the back of the SUV sharing a pillow with our weak little doe.

    Our wether Buddy got through it, though, and NancyInGA had a goat that she got through it. Buddy went from bad off to really improving within a week with the treatment, although it too a number of months for him to rebuild his strength fully. He still has a tendency to get a little tired and weak faster than the others, but at least right now that happens after a full day of running around and browsing. Not bad for a goat the vet thought probably wouldn't make it.

    The treatment we gave was a 10 days series of three shots and one oral med per day. One of the shots really stung, but Buddy was a good sport and seemed to realize they helped. Every day at 4 pm he'd come to the gate, dodge past all of the others as we let him out, come into the laundry room, and gobble corn while he got stuck like a pin cushion. Then he'd get a lot of attention. The vet says that most of the deerworm cases she's seen in the area don't stick with all of the shots for the full duration. If your vet thinks it's deerworm and prescribes tons of shots, stick it out and get them all in - whatever it takes.

    Good luck with your little one, and like I said - if your vet want to talk with mine, PM me and I'll send you details.

    Lynda
     
  10. fishhead

    fishhead Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If this turns out to be brain worm maybe one way to prevent it in the future would be to include some kind of fowl in the pasture to reduce the number of snails and slugs.

    Good luck with your boy!
     
  11. lgslgs

    lgslgs Well-Known Member

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    I just saw this in one of your other posts: "Well, he was pushing his head against stuff and acting drunk. He also walked in circles like he was on a track. He'd stop to eat a bit and then walk more circles. He'd act half way normal and then would go push against something. "

    Opal head pushed, and Buddy did as well when he was at his sickest. It was like what a human would do if they had a really bad headache.

    Also, circles can be deer wormish. Have you seen the online video of the Boer with deerworm and the John Wayne walk?

    One other thing we saw on ours, not in the literature. Are your buck's hooves properly trimmed? If so, stand him on a hard surface like concrete or kitchen floor.

    First do this. Put your hands flat on a table with fingers spread. Now rotate both hands outward so your thumbs point straight forward.

    Now look at your bucks front feet. Are the "thumb" halves of his hooves even with the other half or rotated and pointing forward.

    Both of our deerwormers had that sort of rotation in their front legs and thumbs forward look. Buddy stopped doing that 3 days into his medication. We think that the "thumb sign" is something they do as they shift their body weight to compensate for the deerworm weakness. We've only seen it on our two deerwormers.

    Lynda
     
  12. lgslgs

    lgslgs Well-Known Member

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  13. Patty0315

    Patty0315 Well-Known Member

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    I was just a a Cornell outing and they said Ivermectin for deer worm .
     
  14. Patty0315

    Patty0315 Well-Known Member

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    http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/deerworm.html

    http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/meningealworm.html

    Here is the directionss from Onion Creek.
    Treatment involves very high dosages of injectable ivermectin. Ivermectin paste or pour-on are not effective. Injectable Ivomec should be given at a rate of 1 cc per 55 pounds bodyweight for at least three days, followed by a double-the-cattle dosage of fenbendazole (Safeguard or Panacur) for five days. If the goat is down and can't get up on its own, the chance for recovery is not good. An anti-inflammatory drug like Banamine can be useful in alleviating the inflammation of nerve tissue. Dexamethozone may also be used, but it can cause abortions in pregnant does.

    This treatment, if utilized early in the disease, can stop its progression but cannot undo any nerve damage. Permanent spinal damage (including curvature), weakness in the hindquarters, and/or inability to deliver kids may be the residual effect of Meningeal Worm infection. Once the spinal cord is damaged, treatment can only do so much and the goat will never be back to full health. Producers should let at least one month pass before becoming convinced that the animal has been successfully treated.
     
  15. moonspinner

    moonspinner Well-Known Member

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    Milk, I can only relay the progress of the deerworm in my friend's case. In both her animals the disease began slowly with leg problems and it was a rather slow progression until they began to waste away. I've read there are varying degrees to this, and some cases might deteriorate more rapidly. Deer worm can look like a lot of things from polio/listeriosis to copper deficiency and unfortunately you can only diagnosis it for sure with a necropsy. It can be very hard to cure. Lynda, thanks for that thumb tip. Never heard that one before.
     
  16. pyrnad

    pyrnad Well-Known Member

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    I have been treating a buck for deer worm for the last 3 days. 3 days ago his rear end was in business for itself. I have been doing the Ivomec injected, the safeguard, and Dexamethasone. He is breeding does today. No more head shaking or falling down.
    You can diagnose with a spinal tap but it is big $$$$. My vet told me lots of folks are having problems with deer worm in goats this year. We live in Maine.(damn deer)
    If you treat it early enough, you will help the goat.
     
  17. computerchick

    computerchick Keeper of the Zoo

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    CAE can present as a neurological disorder in a younger age goat. However, it's rarer than brain worm, polio, and other causes of encephalitis. There is also the possibility of meningitis.

    Sometimes it's hard to let go, but better for everyone. Good luck. I think we've all been there in one form of furry or another.

    Andrea
    www.faintinggoat.net