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Discussion Starter #1
I got an "interesting" and somewhat frustrating email today. It came from the lady I got my buck, Zeus, from.....

Hi Nicole!
How are things going with you in Wyoming? I hope all is well and your goats have settled in. I'm writing because I have some bad news. I got a call from a lady to whom I had sold another buckling around the same time that I sold yours to you. She was wondering why hers was so small and what the tattoo was on his ear. I'm embarassed to say, it turns out that she may have the buck that was intended for you, the half Nigerian Dwarf/half Alpine, and you got the wrong one. Yours doesn't have a tattoo on his right ear does he? If he does then I messed up worse than I thought. I'll be digging out the rest of my records when I get home this evening so I can straighten this out. If you could, a photo of your buck might help me.
I sincerely apologize and hope that I can make this up to you somehow.
Regretfully,
(name removed to protect privacy)

So anyway, I called her when I got the email a bit ago and she says that he must have either been in with a dam other than his own when she grabbed him, or he is the nephew of the dam whose kid I was supposed to get. If the latter is the case then he's either half Nubian or half Oberhasli, but she says there's a slight chance he's purebred Alpine (I told her I doubt that because he doesn't look it to me, but what do I know? lol). *sigh* It's a good thing I haven't sold any of his kids claiming they were part Nigerian lol. I guess this explains why got he's gotten this big. I wouldn't trade him out for another buck anyway though, I like him too much, and he's polled, which I like. I asked her if him being polled would help her figure out which kid I got, but she said she has several polled does who could be his dam. I'm frustrated, but not mad, though I am curious why it took so long for the other person to call and ask, he is a year and a half old now. I just want to know what the heck he is now heheh. She's supposed to get back to me tonight or early tomorrow. Here's a pic I took today to send to her. Any ideas? (sorry for the funky pose, he was feeling a bit randy and gave me a dirty look when I yelled at him and told him he better not pee on himself while I'm trying to take a pic lol)

 

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S*** happens. But this is surreal. And totally preventable.
 

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KayJay, he is really a nice looking buck. I am so sorry this happened to you. I would be so PO'ed! But at least the seller did have the gumption to email you and tell you. I would work with her and try to figure it out and let her "make it up to you" somehow.
 

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He has very nice well angulated rear legs!

If you care about papers, I would ask for a total refund, no trades. The woman sounds like a complete and total flake! Even with oodles of solid black goats...(like I had) this sort of thing should never happen.

If papers don't matter, honestly, he looks liek a nice buck to me. I'd keep him since he's already there. I mean, you know what this one looks like, and who knows what else might get pawned off on you in his place?

Oberhasli, Nubian, Alpine, Nigerian...that's a lot of different breeds. I don't mean to sound too judgemental, but to me that seems like it indicates a lack of focus or serious interest in improvement.

FWIW, he looks part or mostly Alpine to me...that gleam in his eye, LOL. Handsome boy!
 

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Papers? Are you kidding me, how about ethical and DNA! She can't ethically sell any of these animals when she doesn't know if they are part this or part that, or guessing. You have no pedigree period with a breeder like this.

Unless you are raising unregistered pets I wouldn't use him or anything else from her. He is very well put together from the dip in his chine forward, from that weak chine backward I wouldn't want him on my place. Without you knowing which dam he is out of on her place he is useless to you in any kind of breeding program that includes conformation or milk. Vicki
 

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Well said Vicki! This is totally unethical and if the breeder isn't sure who his dam or sire may be, you have no idea what he is passing on to his offspring (pet or not).
I would certainly avoid dealing with this person again if I were you.
Though I'm certainly no expert on the larger breeds, he does look to be part ND (especially in the head), but I don't see any ob or nubian in that buck. Body type reminds me of alpine bucks I've seen.
He also has that "just about to pee on himself" look which could explain the dip in the chine.
Max height on an ND buck is 23 1/2 inches. How tall is this boy?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Just to clarify, in case anyone misunderstood, I wasn't asking for ideas on him/his conformation, etc (not that I don't appreciate the comments :) ) I was just asking what breeds you all think he might be, I like him and am happy with him, I guess that's why I'm not as ticked as I feel like I should be. As I said earlier also, he's standing in a funky position because he was about to pee on himself, so I added another pic to show that he's a lot straighter than he looks in the first pic. He's already sired kids for me, and I am very happy with all of them. I imagine what I'll do is ask her to refund what I paid for him, I wouldn't trade him out anyway. And I won't be dealing with her again regardless of anything else, because she's all the way back in California and I'm now (happily) in Wyoming. ;) As far as all the different breeds, she has her goats and her daughters goats all at her place and they've been mixing and matching some of them to see what they come up with. I think she just has too darned many goats (for her anyway). Oh, and none of my goats are registered, I'm not concerned with registration in any case, I've had too many registered animals that were far worse than the unregistered (not that that's always or even usually the case, just been my experience), and my goats are pets as well as milkers.
Anywho, thanks for the input! :)
Edited to add: I don't know how tall he is, I'll have to measure him in the morning, but he's certainly not Nigerian sized.

 

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I think that color is called either chocolate or lavender. It sort of depends on what her Alpines looked like, as far as determining breed, but...does she have any Toggs that could have mixed with Alpine? I really don't think he's half Nubian, the ears are too narrow. It is conceivable that he could be part Oberhasli.

But from the way you describe her, he is probably a Heinz 57, anything and everything.

I would be irate about this (in fact, I'd be irate if it was the right breed but a different breeding than what I bought it as). You don't seem to mind, though, and if papers, pedigrees, showing doesn't matter to you, well....you've already had him and have kids out of him. However, I don't think it's right to ask for a total refund if you're keeping him.

How did she present him when you were buying him? Was he supposed to be one breed? If you paid a lot more than a crossbred buck would cost, I would ask for reimbursement in that department.
 

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Ok, I'm just doing this for fun and from the picture and your first post..

I would rule out Nubian blood altogether....the ears are too Swiss.

He does look like he has Nigerian Dwarf in him, unless that is the camera angle, his head looks large in proportion to the length of his legs.

So i would say Nigerian crossed with a Swiss breed such as the mentioned Alpine or Oberhasli.

With this woman not being that ethical or that precise with her breeding animlas, he may be any combination of Nigerian and Swiss. I don't see Nubian (no airplane ears).
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Toggs are one breed that she actually doesn't have lol. He wasn't supposed to be purebred, but he was supposed to be half Alpine and half Nigerian Dwarf, his mother being an Alpine. I don't really care about a refund, I just figure that's what I'll ask for since she's insisting on doing something. :shrug: Anywho, I'm hoping to hear back from her soon and I'll let ya all know what comes of it. :)
 

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i agree with diane, no nubian in there but nigerian is possible.

as to the ethical point of this story i think it needs a lot of courage from the breeder and come out and say she made a mistake. she offered to make it right again and that is all that count. we have no clue about her personal situation and why this happened. we are certainly not in the right place to judge over her.
 

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Ok, now this is even more interesting. She just called me and told me that I did get the right goat..... She says she compared notes and compared pics with descriptions of kids, and the other goat in question isn't even one she had bred. :confused: She says that as soon as she saw the pic of the other goat in question she knew he wasn't one of hers, but she checked it out as best as possible anyway. And she doesn't normally tattoo her first generation mini-alpines unless she keeps them (because they aren't registered, she just does them to keep them straight for herself), so the goat she sold that lady, and the goat she sold me were both not supposed to have tattoos, and the tattoo isn't one of hers. Sooooo, apparently the mix up was on the part of the other person involved, and not the lady I got Zeus from, and Zeus actually is half Alpine and half Nigerian. *sigh* What a crazy mess, I'm just glad she thought to let me know, even if it was premature.... She says the other goat is not anything she would have bred, and looks more like a boer/pygmy cross? LOL Someone needs to get their stuffs straight. :rolleyes:
 

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It sounds to me like she goofed and is trying her best to make amends. I don't understand the unethical part.
 

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Yes, it does sound like the woman is trying her best and we do not have a right to judge, although we are darn good at it here :)



---------> Diane taking a bow for nailing the Nigerian/Swiss cross breeding...it was soooo hard to do :cool: :) :p
 

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I think the lady you purchased from is probably correct and you got the right goat. I can definitely see the Alpine. I have Alpines full blood and crosses and I thought he was definitely Alpine, but a bit small, so that would fit. You in all likelihood did get the correct goat, but it does make you stop and think. Glad it is all sorted out.
 

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Well I raise Reg.Nigerians,( have ones that exact color) and I really think your buck has Nigerian in him. So... IF you were supposed to get a Nigerian /Alpine mix as you stated that you were, I would say that he is probably the Nigie/Alpine cross.... that you were supposed to get. But JMO :)
And yes he would be larger then a traditional Nigerian when mixed with a larger breed. I have seen Reg. Nigerians that are larger then the standards...
When you picked him up did you not see the sire and Dam?
Regaurless.. as long as you are happy with the Buck and he is throwing you what you want then all is well.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Old'n Times, I saw his dam and sire when his dam was pregnant, but the question was if I had actually gotten the goat that was supposed to come out of that breeding. Course it all seems pointless now lol, a scare over nothing. ;) When I got him, she brought him to me because she was coming my way anyway and I had been sick. And you are right, I am happy with him and the kids he's fathered, it wouldn't have mattered really at this point. I have a mishmash of goats anyway, and I do my best to breed for functionality and health, not for certain breeds or standards (not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just my way :) ). Thanks again for all the input!
 

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He sure looks like a nigerian dwarf/alpine cross to me. He has a steep nigerian rump plus his face is more nigerian looking than alpine looking although he does look like he has alpine ears. Also his body type would be all wrong for a pure bred alpine (at least all the ones I have been around and seen :rolleyes: ).

I like his looks though :) ...nice handsome boy from the looks of him :) .

Justine
 
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