welder / welding

Discussion in 'Shop Talk' started by angus_guy, Oct 26, 2004.

  1. angus_guy

    angus_guy Well-Known Member

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    I have an "old" buzz box that was given to me

    I put a new lead(1/0) ground(1/0) and pigtail (#6) 50 amp circuit

    I want to use this to make repairs trailers/bushhog/scraper box you get the idea

    I have found what is "hotter" and what is "cooler" but the markings have worn off

    How can I figure what that "mark" should read ie 200

    I was "playing"/practicing and I was getting a lot of splatter what are some causes of this?

    REMEMBER I am extremely naive so please use small words and simple sentences. A lot of "welding" jargon sounds like clicks and whistles to me

    Thanks in advance

    AG
     
  2. moopups

    moopups In Remembrance

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    Usually too high of heat setting is the cause but it can be many other things. Wet rods, wrong type of rods (there are DC only rods as well as AC only), wrong application also. Is the welder both an AC and DC? In AC welding there is a magnetic field around the rods tip causeing it to stick until you get more experience. Once you find the range confortable to you, you will notgo much more than 10% of capasity away from it.

    Wet rods will give off a stain in your hand when you grasp tightly with one hand and pull it out with the other. Part of the outer covering will appear as powder in your skins grooves, heat in a regular over at 350 for an hour to cure wet rods.

    There is many different types of rods, about a dozen of them are common and often seen; the exotic ones are not very common. If your near an Ace Hardware they have a referance booklet which has a couple of pages with charts associating rod diameter with heat ranges. Also application guides, definiations of all the terms, ect.

    Basically your weld is as personnalized as your signature, each person does it abit different. The important thing is that you have tocorrect mistakes while makeing them while welding. This means you must go back and fill in a slack spot while it still has its colored glow before procedeing.

    Warnings,you will get radiation burns if you weld unprotected from the rays. You can weld without a hood but only once, after that you will know better. If your not blind. Handle everything as if it is hot because it is realy hot. NEVER start up a welder when the area is WET, rubber boots, gloves, they mean nothing to the welder. It will eat you, alive. Never have a propane gas lighter in your shirt pocket, they have recieved sparks and exploded before. Clear the area of any flammable fluids and other items before starting. Make sure kids and animals cannot come up and surprize you, thats been ugly also.
     

  3. Steve in Ohio

    Steve in Ohio Well-Known Member

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    I assume the welding machine you have is AC only,that alone limits the type of welding rod that you can run effectively.....6013...6011...7024 all run pretty good on AC.Now if you try to run say 7018 on AC it's not real user friendly......I have done it before but it's not easy,and causes alot of splatter.Some rods splatter pretty bad in dirt work projects (rusty,grease and dirt covered).Also the rods may have been exposed to moisture,this causes problems getting an arc started as well as splatter..............so there you have it...........Clicks and whistles included........................
     
  4. angus_guy

    angus_guy Well-Known Member

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    Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmm

    wet rods...... no I just bought them in one of those cans that have a "pull tab"

    Rod type 6011

    Dirty metal possibly ..........Did I grind?....naw was it old metal sitting out in the Field ........Sure it was

    What about "Determining the setting" is there a way to do that?
     
  5. Blu3duk

    Blu3duk Well-Known Member

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    There really is no "ONE" setting for welding, the splatter you are getting can also be resultant of to high or low of setting for the rod and metal combo involved in a particular situation, welders who have done it for a living never hardly look at the settings on the machine, they adjust as they go from the sound the welding process is making and go on from there....

    As for determining the markings, try searching online for your particualr make and model, kinda look at the picture and guess from there.......

    Is your rheostat a stop click or smooth adjustable type??? Stop click has defined points for each ampreage, the smooth type just turns up or down in between settings which alot of old homeamde welders have from surplus parts and pieces.

    William
     
  6. moopups

    moopups In Remembrance

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    Now that I know the metal was rusty, it was the heat causeing the rust to jump off the metal. The sound should be similiar to bacon frying when you have it set right.
     
  7. fordy

    fordy Well-Known Member

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    .............First , i would encourage you to purchase a Helmut with a "auto- darkening" viewing shield . These devices are Clear when you're NOT welding so your helmut can stay closed while viewing the work area . When , you start to weld it will automatically go Dark to protect your eyes . The power comes from the intense light of the welder .
    .............Second , try to obtain some pieces of basic metal sizes, like angle iron , steel rod, channel iron , etc. Next practice welding these pieces together and try to pay attention to the setting for your amperage on your machine. The basic rod you should start out with is 6011 . This is a universal type rod that will work with either Ac or Dc current . It comes in 3 basic sizes , 3/32 , 1/8 , and 5/32's . Obviously , the thicker the metal to be welded the MORE amperage it is going to take to melt\fuse the two pieces together . Take your time , enjoy your new learning experience , and remember that you don't have to be a perfect welder to be a GOOD welder . With a little practice , you will develop a feel and a Style that suits your particular Needs on your farm\homestead . You will also develop a knowledge of where you want to SET the Amperage for various thicknesses of metal . Some welders will weld with a very high amperage setting because they have developed their ability to weld VERY fast without burning holes in the metal . It...just takes time to develop your knowledge base so don't get in a hurry....fordy.... :eek: :)
     
  8. GW

    GW Member

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    The spatter you mentioned, to the inexperienced, is typical of a 6011 rod running on AC. If you could try a 6011 on DC, you would see a big (runs smoother) difference. You do not need to grind your metal if you are using 6011. Maybe just enuff to start an arc if it's real rusty/dirty. 6011's were designed for welding dirty metal. That's why the pros call them "farm rods". Hope this helps.

    My dad was a welder till his eyes went bad. I've been welding off & on for about 25 yrs.

    Greg W
     
  9. retire2$

    retire2$ Well-Known Member

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    Angus_guy

    You asked about heat settings. A rule of thumb is to take the decimal equivalent of the rod and multiply by 1000. For example, the demimal equivlent of 1/8 inch rod is .125. Multiply by 1000 and you get 125 amps. This would be a good starting point.

    Also arc length can cause splatter. Keep your electrode close to the work. Again the rule of thumb is to keep the distance the same width of the electrode. If you are using 1/8 inch rod keep the electrode 1/8 inch or closer to your work.
     
  10. Oggie

    Oggie Waste of bandwidth Supporter

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    Here's a silly question: Are there amp meters that go high enough to just hook them to the welder and use the readings to mark the respective amps on the dial where the numbers have worn off? Can the output of a welding machine be tested?
     
  11. Skaggydog

    Skaggydog Guest

    Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmm


    In AC welding there is a magnetic field around the rods tip causeing it to stick until you get more experience

    The important thing is that you have tocorrect mistakes while makeing them while welding. This means you must go back and fill in a slack spot while it still has its colored glow before procedeing.

    Never have a propane gas lighter in your shirt pocket, they have recieved sparks and exploded before.

    Some welders will weld with a very high amperage setting because they have developed their ability to weld VERY fast without burning holes in the metal

    6011's were designed for welding dirty metal.



    P.S. Meters are used to tell what amperage a machine is giving.
     
  12. John Hill

    John Hill Grand Master

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    Oggie

    There are amp meters that clip around the cable and should be able to measure AC welding current, they would not work on DC. (Well, they might appear to work on DC because the DC welding current will not be steady and the reading would I think be meaningless.)

    Alternatively, you could attach meter leads to the hand piece and to the welder terminal to measure the welding cable resistance in ohms. This should be a very low value. Then switch the meter to volts and start the arc. You will get some quite low voltage reading. Divide your volts reading by the ohms reading and you have amps. I have never tried this but it is basic application of Ohm's Law. If you have more than one set of welder leads use the longest or the lightest set. You are working with very low resistance so all you meter connects will need to be well made, not just help on.
     
  13. moopups

    moopups In Remembrance

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    I have to disagree on one point, 6013 rods are the ones designed to weld through rough conditions. 6011 are the best all around rod for general use, their unique feature is their ability to weld overhead.
     
  14. Sberry

    Sberry New Member

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    They both weld overhead, 13 has milder penetration characteristics.
     
  15. agmantoo

    agmantoo agmantoo Supporter

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    Just a suggestion
    Do you know someone that can weld? If so have them to setup what you have to where they can weld decently. Then leave the settings alone and try to replicate their efforts until you master the proven setup. I recommend using the 6011 for the learning experience.
     
  16. srj

    srj Member

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    hey AG ya got some great advice here , i second Agman's advice if ya can find someone seeing it done will help alot .
    if doing actual repairs stay with the 6011 for now it will dig deeper (better penatration) for general repairs ,& dont exspect it to be pretty ,freezes to fast
    6013 has it's marits ,light repairs, GA. metal ,lay's pretty ,but metal needs to be clean or your likly to get slag inclusions ,

    rod code 6011
    60 = 60,000 lbs. sq. in. tensil strength
    1 = position code (all)
    1 = flux covering

    for 6013 / 3 = flux covering thus giveing different burn characteristic's ,,rod chem. may be a diff. as well but still the same code applies.

    these code's apply to mild steel rod's,,,,SS, etc are diff.
    practice alot ,then practice somemore

    as for the machine setting's they're like women just gotta keep playing with em till ya learn how to set em
    book recomendation (modern welding ),

    hey fordy does this make the grade of speed welding 100% duty mach. 0.45 bare wire ,90/10 gas , 350 -400 amp's / about 50 volts , 600 to 700 in's pr. min. wire speed
     
  17. lynxpilot

    lynxpilot New Member

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    Angus,

    I think you're worrying too much about the settings. I'd get a marker and put 1 through 10 or how many ever amperage settings you have on the welder. Then I'd get a note pad and some scrap metal and play around, seeing what settings work best for different thicknesses and make note of it. You'll find weldors who vary from one another in the settings they use for identical rods and workpiece thicknesses and both could end up with nice welds. Technique has as much an effect as amperage, so keep that in mind. The numbers given in books or on welding calculators (like Miller's) are nice to have, but they're only guidelines and not hard-and-fast rules. From what you described, you probably have an old Lincoln AC-225. You're going to get some spatter no matter what. Best bet is to use an AC rod, lowest amp setting you can use without sticking, and keep the rod as close to the puddle as possible. Good luck!

    Dave