weird grape problem

Discussion in 'Gardening & Plant Propagation' started by peekin, May 7, 2006.

  1. peekin

    peekin Well-Known Member

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    I planted Concord seedless grapes last year. They looked like they were doing fine at the start of spring. Then, on one of the plants, the existing stems or whatever they're called seemed to die and new stems began growing out of the base.

    That wouldn't bother me except the leaves on the new growth are not the same kind of grape leaves. It looks like an entirely different variety of grape.

    I bought from a reputable source. What is going on here? :help:
     
  2. swamp man

    swamp man Well-Known Member

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    If the plants are grafted,the new growth is likely growing from below the graft point,so the new stuff would be whatever variety the rootstock is.I'd find out if they are grafts,and if so,start over.
     

  3. peekin

    peekin Well-Known Member

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    That was what I was afraid of.

    Darn. But thanks anyway.
     
  4. woodspirit

    woodspirit Well-Known Member

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    If they are seedless grapes then they are grafted. Seedless anything can't exist in the wild. How would they reproduce? The variety that they are grafted to would only be known by the grower. I've found that seedless grapes aren't very thrifty to begin with.
     
  5. peekin

    peekin Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. I have two other varieties, Niagara and variegated, and they're doing great. I should have a bumper crop of them by the looks of it.

    I'm going to let the failed graft one grow and just see what happens with it.
     
  6. Steve L.

    Steve L. Well-Known Member

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    Hello, peekin. I know a little about growing grapes. The older, brown woody 'stems' are called 'canes', the new, green succulent ones are called 'shoots', but I don't understand what you're saying. When is "then"?

    Are you saying that the current new shoots on the 'dead' vine look different than the current new shoots on the live vines, or are you saying that the new shoots on the 'dead' vine don't look like they did last year? Can you post a picture?

    What one?

    Also, where are you located?

    This is absolutely not true. I have several own rooted seedless grape varieties in my vineyard, and I don't know of any nurseries that routinely graft seedless varieties. Even Double A only has one (Neptune/3309).

    I can't argue with this. Most seedless varieties tend to be susceptible to fungal diseases, and the lack of seeds can be associated with low vigor. Concord Seedless is a good example of this.
     
  7. DrBraeburn

    DrBraeburn Well-Known Member

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    a tip on planting grapes when you plant them bury a ring of nails not the coated nails or any small pieces of metal that will rust around the vines you plant Grapes love iron
     
  8. peekin

    peekin Well-Known Member

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    I planted last year. I believe the plants were - well, I don't remember - at least a year old when I planted, possibly two.

    There are no new shoots on the cane, or what looks to me to be the dead "vines" (because they branched into two when they were growing). There was new growth, lots of little sprouty bud things, on the cane early in the spring and I was optimistic about the plant doing well. But those new little buds on the cane buds died unexpectedly, and a few days after I first noticed they'd died, I dug around the base of the plant, moving the mulch, and discovered new shoots coming out beneath the branching of the original canes.

    In other words, the shoots that are growing are coming from beneath the point that the plant branched last year.

    The leaves are of a completely different shape than the leaves that were on the plant last year and that are on my other Concord seedless. These are very "shapely" leaves, while the leaves on the plant last year and on the other Concord are very rounded. The shapely leaves are very definitely grape leaves. They're just not anything like the leaves on the original canes.

    I would post a picture but my camera's battery needs charging. I can post pictures tomorrow evening (it takes that long for the camera to charge up).

    Forest Farms in Oregon. I purchased three other grape plants from them, including another Concord seedless, and they're all thriving.

    Zone 7 Ozarks.

    I know nothing about whether these plants are grafted so I'll leave it to you two to work that one out. :D I remember, though, that I was under the impression they were not grafted when I purchased them, which is why this has been so odd to me.

    Others have told me they have trouble with Concord here. And one friend who saw the Concords before this happened was very impressed because he has never been able to make a go of them here.

    Dr. Braeburn, thanks for the tip!
     
  9. woodspirit

    woodspirit Well-Known Member

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    I see. So without seeds then how have those grapes reproduced on their own? Most california and european grapes are grafted onto muscadine rootstocks also.
     
  10. WisJim

    WisJim Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If they are truly seedless, they probably developed as a sport on a seeded variety, and can be propagated by cuttings, and if that is the case, they would not be grafted. The usual reason for grafting grapes is to put a European variety that is sensitive to certain diseases that were not found in Europe, but which American grape varieties had developed immunity or tolerance to. So the European varieties are grafted to American roots so they can be grown here. This would be the case with many wine grapes grown in California.