Weak buckling NOT doing better....

Discussion in 'Goats' started by Milk n' Honey, Sep 28, 2006.

  1. Milk n' Honey

    Milk n' Honey Well-Known Member

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    I'm still trying to get this little buckling well. He is about 9 wks old. He is current on vaccinations and has been dewormed. I've given him PowerPunch, plain yogurt, Vitamin B and BoSe. He did have Coccidiosis and I'm afraid that it might have damaged his digestive tract or something. Tonight, he can't really seem to get on his feet. When everyone else came up to eat at feeding time, he stayed way out in the pasture and was just laying there watching. It was as if it was just too much for him to try and make it. When he gets up, it takes him quite a while and he is easily knocked off balance and falls down. He is eating. I read something Vicki said in a post about the "Ethiopian belly" and that is how he looks. I'm afraid there is nothing I can do and that he is going to die. I'm making a last ditch effort and gave him a dose of LA200 tonight. I hope that was OK. I'm afraid it might be too harsh on him but he is definently NOT going to make it anyway. I don't know what else to do. I don't know how much LA200 he can handle and how often. I wonder if anyone has any suggestions or if anyone has a clue as to what is wrong. Is that the after math of cocci? I have two new babies on the ground. Should I do some sort of prevention of the cocci. i don't want to lose anymore kids!! Thanks for everyone's help and patience with me!!
     
  2. Patty0315

    Patty0315 Well-Known Member

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    When was he last treated for cocci ? I would probally continue treating him for it. Also if he is weaker than the others he should be alone not with them. All yong stock should be treat for cocci , better yet if they are all together I would treat the water and then the babies also.

    If you start a plan of antibiotics or anti cocci you have to stick with it , not only makes it harder to get the second time around.

    Patty
     

  3. SherrieC

    SherrieC Well-Known Member

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    I don't remember what area of the country you're in, but with all the different goats you assembled chances are very good, that you do have a thriving colony of cocidiosis on your place now. Make sure to keep up with the preventative treatment on all your young kids, it's every 3 weeks with the di methox, what are you using to treat the cocidiosis? and continue with this one with the la 200. till the treatment is complete.
     
  4. trob1

    trob1 Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a loose mineral out where he can get to it? This could be a mineral deficency. What do you feed your goats? He may very well be starving to dealth if he isnt getting enough and the goats are pushing him away. I had that happen when I went out of town and the other goats were pushing one little one away from the feed and the person that was feeding them didnt notice. When I got home just 6 days later she was skin and bones and so weak she had trouble walking. I started pulling her aside and feeding her 3 times a day and I pulled her through it. If you have had a cocci problem then I would do a prevention on all kids at 3, 6 and 9 weeks of age. Make sure you have a good loose mineral where all goats can get to it. I would put this little goat in a stall so you know he is eating well and do this 3 times a day. I wouldnt stall too long or you are going to loose him.
     
  5. Milk n' Honey

    Milk n' Honey Well-Known Member

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    There is loose mineral in the barn but a goat block in the pasture. I've seen the kids eating it. Also, we've had pasture and he browses. I haven't seen any of the two bucklings nursing any longer...only the doeling. He never acts too interested in hay??? I'll have to check but I think the cocci treatment was around 2 wks ago. I did the 3 cc's once a day for 5 days on them. He is probably only 20 lbs. How often should I give him the LA200....every 3rd day? Can it hurt him more to continue the cocci treatments? I gave him a Fortified B shot this morning. At 9 wks, is it OK to pull him away from Mom? As I said, I haven't seen him nursing anyway. Neither has my husband.
     
  6. Sher

    Sher Well-Known Member

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    Is he starving? At nine weeks old..he ought to be chowing on mom or you should be feeding him bottles..If he is not eating..you can shoot him with everything under the sun..and he's still gonna starve to death.
     
  7. moonspinner

    moonspinner Well-Known Member

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    Have you done a fecal on him? First thing to rule out is parasites, especially with an extended abdomen. But his falling down, etc is very worrisome. Does he have a temp? Cocci destroys the intestinal lining, so perhaps he had (or still has) an intense bout with it, or it wasn't addressed quickly enough.
     
  8. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    Sorry he is doing so poorly. Does he have a fever? The LA200, given subq is given at 3cc per 100 pounds and you give it daily, there are no long lasting antibiotics for goats, even the ones that say long lasting need to be given every 12 or 24 hours to keep the bloodlevel up in goats fast metabolisims. If he has a fever than yes the LA200 would help, if he does not anitibiotics make goats feel worse rather than better, because it futher destroys the even beneficial bacteria you have added to his gut with the probiotics and yogurt.

    I would put him down. The cocci was not dealt with quick enough for him to be able to live in a pasture only herd. He likely has a very low blood volume, why he is soo lethargic, and with little to no nutritients being absorbed from the pasture he is eating and the hay he doesn't like, that is hard on his tummy that hurts, he doesn't abosrb nutritients in his gut like his siblings because they are scarred from the cocci outbreak.

    It is fine to let kids nurse and grow out on pasture with mom, it's how meat goats should be raised, grain feeding is competely aritifical...but it also takes a good pair of feet and legs to browse, a good flora in the gut, energy, being free of parasites, none of which he has to thrive in this situation. Certainly putting this amount of time and energy into a buck who will be food one day isn't wise, but it's also a huge emotional toll, and time better spent for yourself with the rest of the healthy herd. And of course a buck with this kind of problem as a young kid is not good herdsire material. I would cut my losses, one day of diarrhea is one day too many and why my posts are always full of prevention techniques. Learn from these mistakes for next year...quaranteen all incoming stock, use cocci prevention on your kids either oral treatments starting before they are 3 weeks and religiously doing this every 21 days until they are wellgrown, or by using a feed through in the grain of mom and then the kids on this feed through pellet until well grown. Vicki
     
  9. Milk n' Honey

    Milk n' Honey Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Vicki. Unfortunately, I think you are right about putting him down. Sad. He was to be our next herdsire but you never can plan for sure on these things I guess. Yes, I'll be getting more serious about this cocci prevention. I just purchased some medicated feed and also still have the CTC mixed in per your advice. Many things are going in the right direction but cocci seems to be a problem here on our place so I will probably just have to leave them all on the medicated feed. I see my idea of having goat's milk to drink is just a pipe dream, seeing that they can't eat medicated feed and I currently don't have a place to keep the different breeds separate. Oh well. I have to get these guys healthy. That is most important. I have the Dimethox and I'll be using it on these kids that were just born. I'm definently seeing that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. That is an old and very wise saying. Poor little fellow. He was going to be a nice one. :shrug:
     
  10. murphyjamie

    murphyjamie Well-Known Member

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    Another question about the cocci prevention. In my junior doe pen I have three does that are around 7 months old and I will be picking up another 9 wk old doe this weekend. I have never given any cocci prevention other that they are on show goat which has some medication in it. However they only get a cup a day so I'm not sure that is enough to rely on alone. Should I put something in there water for a short time just to be sure or what would you guys recommend?
     
  11. Milk n' Honey

    Milk n' Honey Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmm, maybe if I'd had them on the medicated feed to start with....?
     
  12. Milk n' Honey

    Milk n' Honey Well-Known Member

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    I can try taking a bottle of whole milk to him. Probably too late and isn't it hard to bottle feed a baby that is 9 wks old and never taken a bottle?
     
  13. chamoisee

    chamoisee Well-Known Member

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    Once they've had cocci really badly, they don't do well afterwards even if you manage to save them. I ended up culling a lot of kids that would have been quite promising otherwise. :( After that, started feeding all the kids lamb starter (medicated) in a creep feeder and they did a whole lot better.
     
  14. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    I would put the new incoming kid in another pen, not with your kids. I would treat her orally with a cocci drug, corid or a sulfa, make sure you are using enough and get the dosage from someone who uses it. Worm her, test for anything you test your normal herd for, and then let the kid in with the herd after she is clean. You don't want the kid to infest your herd with anything, and you certainly don't want to test her immunity with what your herd is immune to! No, 1 cup of medicated feed is not enough to be cocci treating your kids. So don't take chances with them if they are growing well, and don't take chances with the new one either. Huge difference between 7 month old kids born into the same pen, and a new 9 week old! Don't ruin her by thinking she can live with these much bigger kids! Vicki
     
  15. AllWolf

    AllWolf We love all our animals

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    Ok I haven't sit here and read everyone post but I'm going to post what I have had happen to me.. I had a little wether about 2 months ago got very ill at first he had signs of tapeworms so I treated him and all the others for them well just 2 days after that he had the runs really awful which is known as Cocci. So I started treatment for that. In 2 days after treatment he got where he couldn't hardly get up at all. The other wethers would almost run clear over top of him so I would have to go in the pen and pick him up to eat. He ate great and drank great but was a very very weak little guy. So I started giving him V-B shots and alone with Goat Power Punch everyday. He started to get where he could walk better but I kept giving him the power punch because it helps them get back the strength. I looked at his lower eyelids and they where still white as a sheet so I called my buddy and we talked they came down here and got to looking around and seen them poke weeds with them purple berries. That kind of plants can kill a goat very fast. It doesn't matter how well care of you taking of a goat they still at times will want to try something new. So I pulled up every plant near their pen and made sure nonone can get ahold of the berries and believe me it does make a difference. So far knock on wood he is walking, running and a spoiled baby..

    Just see if you have any of them type of plants near the pen because some goats I'm not saying all goats will want to try to eat something different.

    Any new goats you get besure to pen them away until you know if they are sick or not..

    Now for the one that stated this::: Once they've had cocci really badly, they don't do well afterwards even if you manage to save them... I right now have a 2 year old wether that I about lost to Cocci. He got down to 40lbs when he got it. He at first weighed 55 and lost that much weigh and I pulled him through it but it was a rough go and I save him he is a great guy and weighs alot. So never say they don't do well afterwards. Some may not do good when others pull right through it..

    Good Luck to whoever has a sick goat. Sometimes you can save them others you may not.. Just do not give up.. :)