Water in the Intake

Discussion in 'Shop Talk' started by Herb., Sep 10, 2004.

  1. Herb.

    Herb. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    56
    Joined:
    May 10, 2002
    Location:
    Layton, Utah-for now
    I have heard of introducing water into the intake through the carb. to clean the carbon off of the pistons and valves. This should clean the clyinders out promoting more consistant compression and helping the engine run cleaner. Anyone have any experience with this, I would like to try it but am a little hesitant. Thanks, Herb.
     
  2. If you've ever seen the cylinders on an engine which had a blown head gasket, and coolent got into one of the cylinders... it will be sparkling clean, but ya gotta wonder how much damage it did. If you break that carbon free while the engine is running and mix it with water/coolent, it will get everywhere... and basically act as an abrasive similar to wet sanding. If the carbon particles are very small and the rings/seals are in good shape... it may not be so bad. If the carbon breaks free in larger chunks, I suppose it could do some damage.

    I know a guy with a Plymouth Sundance who has blown about 5 head gaskets... and its always around the same cylinder... it would be interesting to check the compression of that cylinder compared to the other 3.

    cheers,
     

  3. Ozarks_1

    Ozarks_1 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    250
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2003
    Location:
    Ark. Ozark Mtns. (Marion County)
    Herb, it can be done ... but carefully. I wouldn't hesitate to do it on an older model vehicle, but I'm not so sure I'd want to try it on something that's computer controlled. There's no telling what kind of crazy readings the sensors might give the computer.
     
  4. Beeman

    Beeman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,977
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Location:
    East TN
    You can use water or auto trans fluid in small quanties introduced thru the carb. You can also lock the engine down and bend a connecting rod if too much of any fluid enters an engine while it's running. I have poured small quantities of both down a crb while feathering the throttle to keep the engine running.
    Seafoam is a tried and true product for carbon removal and is available at most NAPA stores. It can also be introduced thru the carb or a vacum hose and it is a petroleum product and won't hurt the sensors.
    What are you trying to cure?
     
  5. Herb.

    Herb. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    56
    Joined:
    May 10, 2002
    Location:
    Layton, Utah-for now
    Thanks for the info guys it does have an oxygen sensor, will have to check on the SEAFOAM, I was thinking of this as more or less a preventative maintenance measure.

    I have been working on my Daughters 88 Plymouth Voyager, it will die after it has been driven 15 minutes or so, but not every time, it will start again after 10 to 20 minutes, I have driven it for over two hours without anything going wrong. I used it today and it quit working in LOW'S parking lot, I put a meter on the positive side of the coil and cranked the engine no, voltage, after 10 minutes or so I tried it again this time the voltage went to 4.something, another 5 minutes goes by and I hear a noise, real hard to explain but appeared to be coming from the coil then a relay started clicking on the inner fenderwell by the battery, when all of this stopped, tried the check again this time it went to almost 13 volts and the car started. While I was working on it a few days ago I noticed how dirty it is under the hood then the mind starts to wonder what shape the cylinders are in, one thing leads to another and I remembered the thing about the water.

    If anyone has any ideas it is a 3 liter V6, EFI, automatic trans, it has an optical sensor instead of points, first one I have ever seen. The water idea still intriques me, I remember a few guys adding water injection to their trucks back in the 70's or 80's, but don't remember why.
     
  6. Beeman

    Beeman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,977
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Location:
    East TN
    Water injection was used to cool the fuel mixture and stop detonation. An EGR valve works in a similar way on todays vehicles by introducing an inert gas to prevent detonation.
    I am going by memory and we all know what that is worth but I believe that vehicle has a relay on the fenderwell that could be causing your problem. I have all of the books in my shop and when I go there later I'll try to remember to look.
     
  7. Beeman

    Beeman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,977
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Location:
    East TN
    On the drivers side fenderwell there is a group of relays. The relay closest to the windshield is an ASD relay (auto shut down). The ignition switch actually shuts off the relay to shut off the engine. This relay powers the ignition coil, fuel injectors and the fuel pump.
     
  8. Herb.

    Herb. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    56
    Joined:
    May 10, 2002
    Location:
    Layton, Utah-for now
    Beeman,

    That is the relay that I heard clicking after the car had been setting for about 15 minutes at LOW's. After it quit clicking and the strange sound from the coil area (kinda like a wheeze) stopped, the car started fine. Checked on a photo optic sensor today, $120-$175, just now getting over the shock. I will try a new relay tomorrow, thanks for the advise, will let you know what happens.
     
  9. Herb.

    Herb. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    56
    Joined:
    May 10, 2002
    Location:
    Layton, Utah-for now
    Tried the relay, no help. Did find that the input to the neg. side of the ASD relay goes away, it comes from the computer, tried a computer out of a wrecking yard it did the same thing. The computer must be seeing something wrong and removes the low input to the relay, it does not give a fault code though, seems like it should tell you which input is bad. This thing has me stumped, guess I should buy the shop manual, all I have is a Haynes manual and their schematics kinda suck at least this one does.
     
  10. Herb.

    Herb. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    56
    Joined:
    May 10, 2002
    Location:
    Layton, Utah-for now
    Was able to do a little more on the van, followed the four wires from the distrubutor, all seem ok, one goes to a splice and then to the distance sensor this is the ref. voltage, the distance sensor had less then an ohm resistance through it so I disconnected it, started the car and then shorted it out, no difference in how the car ran. I'm running out of ideas, I know the ASD relay is opening up and the voltage is not getting to the + side of the coil, this is done by the computer, my Haynes manual says the computer monitors the output of the photo optic sensor, (seems like there should be more inputs involved) if there is no output it opens the ASD relay. Hate to spend $120 if I am not sure this is what is wrong, any way to check these sensors, resistance, voltage, etc.
     
  11. Beeman

    Beeman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,977
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Location:
    East TN
    Dist failure on these is rare. I wouldn't run out and buy an optic sensor, if it was bad I would price a reman dist from the cheapo auto parts store probably cheaper than just the sensor. I will try to look furthur and see what I can find for you. From memory I remember some Chry vehicles had an anti theft system that would cause similar problems and shut off the ASD relay. Not sure if it applied to a Van.
     
  12. Beeman

    Beeman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,977
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Location:
    East TN
    Did you fix your van? Hears the Waters has the same problem on hers.
     
  13. Herb.

    Herb. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    56
    Joined:
    May 10, 2002
    Location:
    Layton, Utah-for now
    I bought a distributor at a wrecking yard and it ran good for about three weeks but now it is doing the same thing, also found that the plug for the dist. appeared to be making a bad connection, after I changed the dist. it would run good but I could make it die simply by picking up the plug. With the new dist. and the plug worked over it really ran well. However I took a job in Greenville S.C. and the van is in Utah so do not know when I will be able to tackle it again. The photo senson was only used for about three years, iirc they stopped using it in 1990.
     
  14. Beeman

    Beeman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,977
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Location:
    East TN
    According to my Mitchell books all of the 3.0L Mitsubishi engines use a dist. and an optical sensor. The Chrysler engine went to a direct ignition system with a crankshaft sensor and no dist.