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Water disappearing from plumbing system

2K views 28 replies 10 participants last post by  fishhead 
#1 ·
My plumbing system is a sand point shallow well.

I've noticed that my pump kicks on even though I haven't run any water for hours or during the night. I've checked every faucet, the washing machine and water heater.

I just checked the air tank and it was at 26 lbs. the same as the water pressure gauge.

My kitchen faucet thumps intermittently when I run it. It's not water hammer because it happens even when the water is running. It doesn't do it all the time and I'm not sure that it's related to the pump kicking on without running water.

My two best guesses are a leaky check valve (which I really hope is not the problem) OR the bladder in my pressure tank is shot. I'm leaning towards a worn out bladder.

Any suggestions on what I may have missed?
 
#3 ·
If the bladder is shot the pump would kick in as soon as you start running water and perhaps kick in quickly a few times when just shut off as no 'cushion' but once pumped up and shut off should not kick in till pressure at switch drops off which it should not unless there is a leak someplace. If you are able to isolate the house from the pump and tank as the previous poster suggests and it still does it then it probably IS a leaking check, that would seem to be the most probable problem baring some kind of leak.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Thanks for the suggestions.

Unfortunately I didn't put any any valves to isolate the tank or the house.

Should the tank pressure mirror the pump pressure?

I don't see how a switch would bleed off the pressure? It's not turning on and then off a few seconds later. Would that rule out the bladder being bad?

I did notice that when showering the pump kicks on and then off after maybe 15 seconds with the water flowing.
 
#7 ·
That would make sense according to my understand of the pressure tank. I'm now wondering if maybe that is where the small amount of air has been coming from that makes my kitchen faucet "thump" sometimes.
 
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#9 ·
It generally thumps when I first start it full blast and sometimes it seems to matter whether it's hot or cold.. If I open it slowly it doesn't. At other times it might thump even after being run a while say maybe 30 seconds. It seems to be more likely to thump at full throttle because I can make it stop thumping by slowing the water flow.

It is starting to sound like the check valve. I'll have to dig out my cheater pipes for the pipe wrenches.
 
#13 ·
The problem? my pump kicks on even though I haven't run any water for hours or during the night.

I have a drip at the kitchen faucet. The faucet is 70 years old so no cartridge or parts available. My sandpoint well pump kicks on every few hours. I don't know what causes the thump but it sounds like you have a slow leak. The most common is the flapper in the toilet leaking from the tank to the bowl. Could also be the fill valve doesn't shut completely off so the water in the tank gets too high and goes into the overflow tube and into the tank.

Take the lid off the tank and see if the water level is up to the top of the overflow tube. If not then put a bit of food coloring in the tank and wait a few hours. If the food coloring shows up in the bowl then the flapper is leaking.

This time of year it could be the outside spigot was damaged by freezing and is leaking. You probably wouldn't find any water inside because its going outside.

There could be a leak in the piping. Wait several hours without running the water so there is no condensation then feel the pipe looking for wet.

Remember, if you are caught or killed we will disavow any knowledge of your actions.
 
#15 ·
Yesterday I tried to get some food dye for the toilet tank but the store was out. I did do a test on the toilet tank today. I flushed it using a bucket of water poured into the toilet bowl hard enough that the resulting water level in the bowl was just barely deep enough to make a seal to keep out the methane. After several hours the water in the toilet bowl was the normal depth.

I've tried listening to that telltale spray of water going into the tank but it's silent.
 
#18 ·
Today I flushed the toilet and when the tank had refilled I shut the valve off. After sitting most of the day the tank level hasn't changed a bit and neither has the bowl level.
 
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#19 ·
Is it possible that there isn't enough recovery in the pipe? And you're using water faster than the water strata can replenish. Or maybe the screen is plugged a bit restricting flow.
We are putting in a sandpoint well at our cabin so I've been checking them out. We are using 2" pipe. Instead ot 1-1/4" pipe. And a 4' long sandpoint head with 5 micron stainless screen.
For a pump I'm planning on using a surflow. 12v. Above ground. Comes with its own pressure switch 40-60 psi. With a 1/2" tube down the pipe with another filter on the end. Or maybe 3/8" tubing if I need more lift. The pump cost was near 80 bucks. All in for less than a c bill.
Another option I've researched was a 1-7/8" submersible pump that drops down a 2" pipe. Then it pumps up.
Along the way I somehow learned a couple things. The pump screen can get clogged. Both during the installation and while developing the cavity. It can be cleaned by blowing air down it . To blow mud n stuff out of the screen.
 
#21 ·
I replaced the check valve. It seems to have helped with the thumping but it didn't stop the waterline from losing pressure and causing the pump to start.

The dye in the toilet tank didn't migrate to the bowl last night. I ran the pump up to 40 psi and turned it off. It was zero psi this morning. I'm going to check the water lines one more time and if I don't see a leak I'll replace the pressure tank.
 
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#22 ·
When I put the line back together I evidently didn't tighten the coupler enough and it's been dripping. I'm cautious when working around brass or case iron. I tightened it some more so we'll see if that stops the loss in pressure.

No matter what, I'm afraid that I'll have to dig out the top of the well so I can clean the screen since there is so much sediment coming out of the tap.
 
#23 ·
I've decided to replace the pressure tank. I tested it yesterday and the pressure in the pressure tank dropped to zero when I shut the pump off and drained the water pressure.

The faucet still thumps so we'll see if replacing the tank gets rid of that symptom too.
 
#26 ·
I replaced the pressure tank today and that seems to have stopped the self starts. The thumps are much less and may be ending too.
 
#28 ·
I have done that. I've also put dye in the tank and I've pour water into the bowl to bring it to near empty and the bowl didn't refill overnight.

It doesn't seem to start the pump by itself any more so it must have been a pressure issue not an actual water volume issue. The faucet still thumps but not nearly as much. I think that the silt in the well might have something to do with the sealing of the faucet and allows the water to divert when it shouldn't.
 
#29 ·
It was staring me in the face for months but I finally saw the obvious. I had the float adjusted to close to the maximum depth. I've run the pump up to pressure and turned off the pump and shut the valve on the toilet tank for several nights. The pressure didn't drop all night.

I did change the pressure tank and the check valve but that didn't stop the pump starting during the night.

What I don't understand is why the dye test didn't show any bleeding through into the bowl.

The kitchen faucet still thumps but I am pretty sure the faucet is the cause. I've rebuilt it twice but it still thumps.
 
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