US Solar Panel prices about to increase ! HEADS UP !!

Discussion in 'Alternative Energy' started by Steve_S, Oct 5, 2017.

  1. Steve_S

    Steve_S Well-Known Member

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    Good day folks

    Planning a Solar Install ? Your about to get nailed by the regressive thinking in Washington... Buy now or pay much more later...

    There is some terrible news for those US Citizens intending to install new solar panels and solar projects around the Nation... The US ITC (International Trade Commission) is about to make recommendations for heavy tariffs on Imported Solar Panels / Cells which will push the price per watt up quite significantly, this recommendation is expected soon and the POTUS has already stated he wants heavy tariffs, so...

    Should be noted that the two primary companies who requested this ITC are NOT US Owned, in fact, one is primarily German Owned and Suniva is mostly Chinese owned. This ruling will not only increase Cost per Watt in the USA, it will cost some 150,000+ jobs as well, if it goes through as is and the US Solar Industry is fighting it as this will really hurt them too.... Should this ruling & recommendation go through and the current US Gov. falls for it, they will help to secure the growth & expansion of the offshore Manufacturers, NOT of US Manufacturers because the rest of the world will look towards the cheaper imports and lowering US Product Export sales as well (double whammy, no extra charge). Ironically Funny how this "manipulation" to Self-Injure the US Industry & reduce US adoption of Solar Power while increasing global market for the offshore producer's was so easy to pull off and play with Mr. Trumps own bias & prejudice.... All the while as the US Gov't is about to subsidize Coal & Nuclear to support industries in retreat... OI !

    Reference Articles Below.
    https://arstechnica.com/information...-finds-solar-manufacturers-harmed-by-imports/

    https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2017/09/industry-reaction-solar-panel-tariff-ruling/

    https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2017/09/solarworld-americas-hiring-production/
    ** Above one is funny (in a sad way) 200 jobs while 150,000 to be wiped out...

    https://cleantechnica.com/2017/09/2...-disappointed-itcs-anti-solar-trade-decision/

    https://cleantechnica.com/2017/09/2...ated-todays-ruling-may-lead-crushing-tariffs/
     
  2. MoonRiver

    MoonRiver SM Entrepreneuraholic Supporter

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    If companies are being illegally subsidized by foreign governments, then there should be a tariff. Solar should cost whatever the real price of solar is.
     

  3. anniew

    anniew keep it simple and honest Supporter

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    Is it much different than our farm subsidies? Most people have no concept of what food really costs to produce because of the huge subsidies that corporate producers get.
     
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  4. Steve_S

    Steve_S Well-Known Member

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    And HOW MUCH does the US Gov subsidize Oil, Gas & Coal production ? You might be shocked... China has major environmental problems and they ARE addressing it post conversion from Agri to Industry based economy which was always their long term plan (20 years) (something that Western Nations cannot do - long term = max 8 years).

    Illegal subsidy ? BY WHO'S STANDARD ? Just cause one idiot govern-mental FERENGI says so... Reality Check - how many sovereign nations are there on this rock ? Where do the other 6-1/2 Billion People live ? Yes, make the Ferengi Proud and may the Rules of Acquisition always be the Bright Light to Profit.

    IF the USG decided to be smart, they would remove the sales taxes, fees & manufacturing taxes on domestic equipment used in the USA and watch the market jump all over it while "organically" reducing the import sales as a by-product... BUT that is not the Trumpican Vision of Oil, Gas, Coal & Nuclear who THEY ARE SUBSIDIZING !
     
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  5. Tyler520

    Tyler520 Well-Known Member

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    you solar nuts keep telling us solar is economically self-sustainable, and now you're whining that it is un-affordable because they're taking away your subsidized handouts?

    can't have it both ways, cupcake - put up or shut up
     
  6. Murby

    Murby Well-Known Member

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    Not even close... I'd offer an Honorable Mention for trying but your statement doesn't even warrant that..

    The problem is China.. its a communist country.. the government owns everything and controls everything.. and they're flooding the markets with super cheap solar panels..

    Fair and Free Market only works when everyone is starting from the same starting line.. that doesn't happen in China. and since they can make products cheaper than everyone else, they have an artificial and government sponsored advantage.

    Here, think of it this way.. You want to scream freedom and fairness, red white and blue, god guns and glory.. and yet every time you purchase a product made in China, you cast a vote for Communism, then complain there are no jobs because of Obama or someone else you find to blame it on.

    Take a look around your home... count the "Made in China" marks and see how guilty you are... and then, the guilt inevitably always manifests itself as an excuse to ease the feeling of responsibility...

    I installed my own 8KW solar array to power my whole home.. NOTHING is made in China except maybe a few 50 cent plastic connectors.
     
  7. Steve_S

    Steve_S Well-Known Member

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    no mention of the CEO's and boards who have moved their manufacturing to China and shutdown domestic production. black & decker, DeWalt and ohhh so many other "labels" are made offshore...

    Pollution and environment also matter and the cheaper it is to implement and make use of it the better for everyone globally, your kids, my kids and our neighbours kids along with everything else. Besides, self powering is "Independence" and "Freedom" which are also two very significant points too and if the Chinese want to subsidize my freedom to make a better world, what the hey !

    By the way, there are thousands of "Green Tech" jobs in the states at stake too as well as some leadership in global solutions if such things are hampered by the administration, fortunately others are plowing ahead with what has to be done.

    let's not let this turn into something that needs to be stuck into the dark rooms.
     
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  8. haypoint

    haypoint Well-Known Member Supporter

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    China has flooded the market with cheaper solar cells. The World isn't buying them from the US. A tariff on incoming solar cells, raises the cost of imported products. Perhaps the US made products will be less costly than the imported products with a tariff. Then it becomes an advantage to make tariff-free products in the US. A tariff on imported solar cells does nothing to the World market.
    By itself, tariffs to protect US workers, is good. But just like fighting with your neighbor, push comes to shove. So, China tacks a tariff on stuff we sell into China. Back and forth and sooner than later the World Economy is torn in half. Good luck keeping the US economy afloat when China starts pulling their loans and investments back.
    Thinking that stimulating the Chinese economy with cheap solar cells will be good for the environment is backward. Ever see the pollution and ravaged resources in China?
    As a Canadian citizen, you should be outraged that Canada exports all the old, broken TVs, computers, electronics to China. I've seen videos of the mountains of burning plastics and billowing black smoke as they burn off the plastics and then separate the metals. Where does that pollution go?

    I understand that those folks that hate big business have to feed their hate, but sometimes they need to get out more, learn about the reality. Farm subsidies are tiny and don't support what you think they do. For fifty years, I've heard about farmers being paid to not grow crops or somehow the government gives them a dollar for every bushel of corn they grow.
    If the Feds stopped every subsidy today, your corn flakes wouldn't change a bit. To discourage the use of imported oil, the Feds subsidize alcohol for fuel. That makes alcohol production profitable, so more is made. That creates a big demand for corn. Capitalism dictates that the greater the demand, the better the price. I'd like you to show me what huge subsidies corporate producers get and what it does. I've seen powdered milk companies get low interest loans or reductions in property taxes to process more milk, creating a greater demand for milk, putting more people to work.
    You'll never understand tariffs if you think the government is shoveling money into big business.
     
  9. Steve_S

    Steve_S Well-Known Member

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    Trump’s ‘America first’ trade policy ignores key lesson from Great Depression
    November 15, 2017 8.39pm EST

    https://theconversation.com/trumps-...gnores-key-lesson-from-great-depression-87477

    Essentially your saying your support corporate monopolies who dictate pricing with a "Market Bares Pricing Model" which is pay as little as possible to make product X, sell it to the consumer at the maximum price threshold that the Market will Bare to get the most profit for least effort. Even if said product (say Solar Panels) benefits everyone (from the CEO's kids to yours and all other living things on our rock) which is to everyones advantage.... Living people buy things, sick, dying & dead don't.

    BTW: Before attacking me as a Canadian look in the mirror buckaroo !
    China's War on Foreign Garbage
    Imported recycling has been a boon for China. So why ban it?
    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-07-20/china-s-war-on-foreign-garbage

    China wants nothing to do with America's trash
    https://www.marketplace.org/2017/10/17/sustainability/china-wants-nothing-do-americas-trash

    China WAS an Agri Based economy till the early 80's when it started on it's 25 year plan to industrialize and become the industrial giant that it has... It knew (as did the people) that this rapid change over would have it's downsides and costs and related impacts. That 25 years has passed and Stage-2 (15 yr program) the cleanup is underway and they are greening up faster than anyone else and accelerating the developments to not only resolve the mess they created at home but as a spin off these tech will help the entire world to solve many of it's own issues. Now we see Solar, Wind, EV Busses, Transports & Cars en-masse in China and spreading worldwide... the US is behind the 8-ball on this with the exception of Tesla who is the big US Booster for E-Vehicles and has been a pushing voice up front.

    I won't play this game... the potential for shenanigan's is too much and I'm not interested in the drama, there are real issues we are facing right now day to day for our kids & beyond that are far more important... IF your so upset about Job Losses in USA, then go and bang on the Board Room Doors & CEO/Presidents of companies who have shifted their manufacturing jobs to China... Look at Caterpillar for one... GM building & expanding in China and producing EV's that will never come to America because of regressive thinking... down the road sure AFTER they demand bailouts & incentives of course....
     
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  10. haypoint

    haypoint Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So, Tesla is the bright star here? If I recall, Tesla loses over $10,000 on each vehicle even counting the huge government subsidy.
    Tariffs run the risk of tariffs getting slapped onto US exports. But, our huge trade partner, China has always restricted US companies from entering their market.
    An example that I'm closely aware of is Amway. Dick DeVos wanted to market Amway products in China. China would only allow Amway to build a factory in China and manufacture products for China from China.
    Charles Gibson built oak ice boxes, later, refrigerators and air conditioners. Bought out by Hupp Corp, then Hupp bought by White Corp. Recently, Electrolux bought White. They closed the factory and moved operations to Mexico, to take advantage of cheap labor and no tariffs.
    The town was devastated. Solar Ovantics, holding patents on thin film solar, was offered building space. Local College created training for employment there. But as the factory was gearing up, China flooded the market with cheaper products and expected sales to Europe evaporated when most countries dropped their huge solar subsidies. The factory closed, the company bankrupt, the town and county in poverty.
    If you'd like to compete with China, even without getting into their currency manipulation, you'd better get used to three generations in a 2 bedroom apartment and peddle your bike to work and barely enough wage to feed your family. With your World Economy, open markets, every laborer in the world will be equal. Are you sure you want that?
    CEO'ss have an obligation to the shareholders to turn a profit. Exploiting Third World countries, avoiding pollution and worker safety standards is done to increase profits. If there were a tariff, balancing the cheaper labor with higher shipping costs might make sense to return to North America. Think of them as taxes. Taxes have always been used to encourage or discourage behaviors.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017 at 6:52 PM