Untrimmed hooves--

Discussion in 'Goats' started by beaublo, Apr 21, 2005.

  1. beaublo

    beaublo Member

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    Can anyone inform me about hoof trimming? How frequently should it be done? Not doing it for years...will this permenantly cripple the poor animals?

    I was at a farm today, and the burros, goats, etc had hoofs all curling upwards and they hobbled ....it looked so bad and painful.

    And what is this foot ailment called "falen" ...sore feet? Or sore because of poor hoof care?

    I am from the city, and don't know just how bad this all is. Thanks for any input.


    How hard is this trimming to do? this farm had quite a few animals.....some were in great shape, but others....stumbled with these huge curly "shoes" that were hooves. How cruel is this? And how expensive to regularly take care of hooves?

    Sorry for all the questions.
     
  2. qtkitty

    qtkitty Well-Known Member

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    i have read every 3 months .. i do not know any more then that
     

  3. Jen H

    Jen H Well-Known Member

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    Foot trimming isn't a really big deal. It honestly takes me longer to get the critters under control than it does to trim their feet. For goats and sheep, you really just need a good pair of pruning shears. Most people with horses (or burros, mules, donkeys, etc...) have someone come out to trim feet and put on new shoes. We had horses when I was growing up, but I wasn't a part of foot trimming at all so I can't tell you any more about that.

    You asked about "falen." I've never heard of that. Maybe you mean "founder?" Founder is actually caused by a too rich diet, but it does make the feet overgrow and causes the animal a lot of pain. Sometimes founder is a short-lived one time problem, if the underlying cause isn't attended to it becomes a chronic problem. Goats and horses can both founder.

    Come to think of it, if these animals did founder, their hooves would be growing faster than normal and would be softer than normal. That could explain why their feet are in such bad shape - their feet just got ahead of the farmer. Some corrective foot care is definitely in order, but their feed also needs to be looked into.

    Out of curiosity, why do you ask?
     
  4. Caprice Acres

    Caprice Acres AKA "mygoat" Staff Member Supporter

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    Foot trimming is a big deal. it will permanately cripple. it is horribly cruel, for in the wild it would be naturally worn down, and therefore not a problem. it will cause knee, hip and elbow problems, and dirt and urine and feces will almost always cause a huge infections when trapped in the hoof, sometimes unknown or unseen, and will literally eat the hoof from the inside out. the animal will need to be put down afterthat.
    if they don't know how, ask a vet or the breeder. they probably won't like thier sore feet touched, but after they start to feel better they can be trained to hold still.
     
  5. marvella

    marvella Well-Known Member

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    1. i would never buy from someone who had animals that looked uncared for in any way. and that's what that is.

    2. i never trim hooves, as they always have enough room to roam widely, and they wear down naturally.
     
  6. burfer

    burfer Well-Known Member

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    Founder in horses is permanent. Once a horse founders he/she will always be foundered. You can control the founder, but it will always have this ailment. Not sure if goat founder is the same. We trim every to everyother month, depends on how they are wearing.
     
  7. beaublo

    beaublo Member

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    Thanks everyone. Yes the farmer called it "Founder" but that was for only the worse off mule. All the oter mules and goats hat grossly overgrown hooves too.

    Why do I ask? I am surprised buy that question. In fact I don't know why it was asked at all!

    This woman is whom much of our large city advises sending all unwanted farm animals to. Our city animal shelters recomend her and I drove 100 mile round trip to deliver a rooster found in our Nature center (dumped off by some a-hole).

    I believe the woman loves animals, but is in way over her head. A "collecter" or Hoarder maybe. All the poultry and pigs get fed dried dog food which is just dumped exposed on the ground in huge unprotected heaps.

    70 acres---with 5 buffalo, 1 clydesdale, another horse, at least 10 mules & donkeys, over 100 pigs, easily 250 + fowl of all kinds (I saw no grain nor feeders for poutry) nor any other animal, goats, dogs, cats, and the majority all free roam in about 3 acres of slop, filth, dirty hay, excrement, fouled drinking water, and dog food dumped on ground. 1 person cares for all this. Not possible.

    This is widely known as an "Animal sanctuary and shelter"

    What should I do about this? I work at a Wildlife Nature Center and previously raised poultry and rabbits. I feel responsibility.
     
  8. animal_kingdom

    animal_kingdom Well-Known Member

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    I believe it was meant that it isn't that big of a deal to take the time to trim them and do the job.
     
  9. animal_kingdom

    animal_kingdom Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you can get a group of people together and offer help to this woman. Maybe she doesn't know her way out of this stuff. You know, somtimes we take on "projects" and then they get out of control. Scrapbooking? collections? Refinishing?...etc.

    Maybe this woman doesn't know any better.

    Either way, gross neglect may have not been her intentions and she may not even know who or how to ask for help.

    See what her response is. If she agrees to help, then slowly organize things for her. Show her the right way. If well managed, she could handle alot of it herself.

    My wonder is why she isn't selling anything to keep things manageable. Then again...maybe she hasn't even thought of it.
     
  10. Jen H

    Jen H Well-Known Member

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    Animal Kingdom is right, I meant that hoof trimming itself is not a big job. I did not mean that hoof condition doesn't matter. It just came out wrong.

    I check my animal's feet monthly and trim if it's necessary. I have one goat with soft feet that I really have to keep up on. Trimming a goat's hooves takes me just a few minutes - most of the time spent is getting them onto the stand and tying them so they don't take off.

    I asked because I wondered if maybe this person was a neighbor with some personal difficulties, or maybe someone taking in stock that had already been mistreated and was rehabilitating them before sending them on to a better home. It seems that isn't the case.

    As far as helping the animals (and they do sound like they need it!), maybe a group can get together and build some feeders to at least keep the feed off the ground. If you can find people who have goats or sheep - they can trim the goat's hooves. It will probably take a couple of months to get those hooves back into shape, but it's doable.

    Really, it sounds like she just has too many animals. Has she even tried to find homes for them?
     
  11. Caprice Acres

    Caprice Acres AKA "mygoat" Staff Member Supporter

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    that woman does not need help, she needs her animals taken away and her jailed. call a humane society nearby active in prosocuting animal cruelty. it sounds severe, and they will probably take and replace the animals. and she doesn't love them, it's obvious.
     
  12. susanne

    susanne Nubian dairy goat breeder

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    animals that where dumped by some stupid people found a home with this heart full lady. i don't think she belongs in jail. what she need is some help from other people and maybe some donations so she can feed them proper food. i agree she needs some advice but certainly not jail :grump:
    susanne
     
  13. animal_kingdom

    animal_kingdom Well-Known Member

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    No one minds "dumping" off these animals at this womans place because it makes them seem like the do-gooders. They've "rescued" some animal, taken it to a farm and that was that. They get to drive away. Clean, neat and tidy.

    If they were concerned a little farther, they would volunteer to come once a week or once a month to assist the person they dumped the animal with.

    There's always someone to blame I imagine. Funny thing...if those animals are taken away they are likely to end up at another place similar because in reality no one wants to take time for a neighbor.



    Casting stones only shatters glass...Get a few friends, take those stones and build a wall and it brings beauty and protection that everyone is proud of
     
  14. beaublo

    beaublo Member

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    Thanks everyone.

    I researched around this woman's county, and no one called or emailed me back. The Police. the shleters only deal with dogs and cats. I even called a few numbers in downtown Chicago, and no one gets back to me. If I post back in a little while with some email adresses and or numbers, etc. could maybe some of you help? Maybe someone will see that more than one person is protesting...?

    As for the lady, she was nice until I started observing the hooves and she had every excuse why they were not trimmed. I even offered to come and help her (remember I live over 50 miles away in a suburb of Chicago) for free---even scrape up manure, the loliest of jobs. She declined.

    Here is one more thing. She has a husband who is one of the county sheriffs!!!! I wonder if this could be a reason why no one has done anything.

    Can anyone tell me about who trims hooves? How much do they charge? I would think if this woman got someone, they would be there 12 hours straight. More maybe.

    I really think there has to be a "warrant to tresspass onto the farm, like on "Animal Cops" or something. Him being a sheriff has got to be a big deterrent for the locals to make any "waves."

    Thanks everyone....your thoughts have helped this city gal alot so far. Beau
     
  15. animal_kingdom

    animal_kingdom Well-Known Member

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    You have a large point there about him being a sheriff but there is always someone above him.

    I forgot you lived so far away.

    I melt at stink and I can imagine the stink over there.

    What about calling her husband from a payphone away from where you live and ask him if they need help or if they just like the animals the way they are.

    If he answers to the latter...well then I would be extremely furious.

    No excuses will be left to get them off the hook.

    There is a woman not far from me who has a wonderful farm from the outside. But inside her barn is a different story. Sadly enough she sells milk and has gone through the loops to sell it for human consumption. $6 per gallon. I wouldn't drink a glass of water from her if I saw it coming directly from the pump. Gross. Yet she is allowed to continue and no one will do anything about it. It's a much longer deal than what I want to describe but she really thinks she is doing everything right and that her animals are superior to anyone elses and yada yada yada....

    Some people are just ignorant and have no real clue. Sad.
     
  16. HilltopDaisy

    HilltopDaisy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I trim my goats feet every 4-6 weeks, and it takes 5 minutes per goat. There's no excuse for letting helpless animals become crippled. Yes, they will eventually begin to walk on their knees because of severe hoof pain. There must be a solution to this; we just need some time to think about it.
     
  17. Ksar

    Ksar Member

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    A sad situation you discribe, but I must say this point.

    Not in protection of this women. But for extra knowledge.

    Pigs, chickens and ducks spend lots of their time eating dirt anyway. You say she fed from the ground, and that you seen no feeders for the chickens and such. Well I feed my pigs in a big 3" deep round pan 3 seconds after I put it in they will tromp all in it and dump it out, resulting in them eating it off the ground, :rolleyes: . My chickens are free range and are employed to keep the pastures clear of manure. I do not provide feeders nor do I feed them "chicken feed" they eat bugs, left over grain from the cows poop, grass, and clabbered milk. I also have a couple of goats that came from the auction with terrible hooves, 2 of them I have never been able to correct the defect. All I can do with them is trim more often. Which I do, but they will never be totally correct hooves again.

    It does sound like they have a bit to much to handle there, and with him being a law enforcement officer not much will probably be done. Most of the animal shelters dont deal with livestock, try the sheriff dept ask if they have an agriculture dept. We have, they deal with all the livestock neglect and stray stock. If not try talking a vet into going to check it out or contact your local news stations. You might be best served by stating information about the hooves,flith/manure and the body condition of these animals, as eating off the ground is an accepted practice with some folks :no: , though not very healthy to the animals. When it comes to the care of livestock the laws are a lot different, what a dog/cat owner would consider abuse, a farmer might see as the norm.
    Hope you can help the animals without having them end up slaughtered because theres nothing that can/will be done for them, if they take them away. This is the usual result with ones like that. Cheaper to kill it than fix it.

    Good luck
    Kathy
     
  18. beaublo

    beaublo Member

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    Well I got a VERY irate call from her today....saying how I "turned her in" and was "snooping on her property" and "foundered hooves can grow 5" in a week".

    5" in a week? Can this be? How fast can this hoof growth happen really?

    I did not use her name, nor address, nor phone...when I emailed HAHS yet the local "Hoofed Animal Humane Society" sends her unwanted and abandoned pot belly pigs all the time! They Know her!

    Yet, do they ever come out and view her farm?

    I still today, told her that I commended her on taking care of all these animals. I also again offered any help...which she really dislikes thinking she needs any help at all.

    Then she gave me yet another excuse why she cannot get anyone out to trim hooves...but I checked and this county is full of farriers.

    I did not know that some animals wind up "walking around on thier knees" Should they be euthanized by that point? Are they in pain? Gosh, so many issues, huh?

    beau
     
  19. BlessedMom

    BlessedMom Well-Known Member

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    I'm so sorry to hear about this situation.
    We purchased a doe from a woman about a month ago. She had had surgery and her son hurt his shoulder..etc..etc....
    This is a nice registered Nubian doe, in milk. And the price was right.
    That being said, oh my do they need help! We ended up taking 3 from them.
    Now, they had about 12 left. After we left I turned them in.
    Nice, nice people but the living conditions of those animals were awful. None had their shots, hooves trimmed, etc.
    Now the 5 year old nubian we got, her nails are awful. The woman remarked that they "just got away from her". I offered to clip her entire herd's hooves right then and there. She declined. I couldn't make her do it.
    I have been clipping those hooves every week. They are broken and over grown. No matter how damaged they are you can still tell that they are being worked on.
    If someone came and thought I wasn't caring for them it would be evident to anyone that knew animals that I am taking care of those hooves. On one hoove she has no nail on one side at all. One was split all the way up to her foot. I've Blu-Koted her and just keep trimming faithfully every week.
    I have never seen animals hooves grow 5" in a week. I would call that a bald face lie. I don't know how possible that would even be! I clip the rest of the heard once a month. Takes me 10 minutes per animal, because I have a problem with my hands being sore.
    I hope someone can step in and help this woman!
     
  20. lhopkins

    lhopkins Member

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    Grow 5" in a week? NO!

    I have owned foundered horses before. If not caught early and treated with aggressive trimming, yes they will grow into the curled toe. The heel grows faster than the toe, hence the toe curls up. In my experience most farriers and vets treat this incorrectly. It takes pulling shoes and trimming every two or three weeks and getting the heel growth under control. It takes a horse about 1 to 1 1/2 years to completely grow hoof from the hairline to the ground. When I trim, depending on the horse, the growth is about 1/8" to 1/2" every two weeks. So 5"????????????????

    On the goats, again it depends on the individual and the feed they are on, they grow about the same as the horse. With no rocks and lots of movement where they naturally trim their hooves, they need trimming probably monthly. Some people get by with every 4 months but then the job is harder.

    I imagine the whole problem goes back to "money". Farriers around here charge anywhere from $30.00 to $45.00 to trim one horse. Ideally this should be done every 4 to 8 weeks, depending on the horse. This is hundreds of dollars per horse per year. On the goats, there aren't goat "farriers" in the phone book.

    You might try contacting the local fair board and finding out who the goat superintendent is. They might then know of goat clubs in the area who might can help you in your quest. Seems like "squeeky wheel" gets things done. Find out who the horse superintendent is also. Get horse people and goat people behind you. This lends clout from people in the "know". The extension office in your county may also know names of goat and horse people. Go to feed stores and ask if there are goat or horse clubs around. Just some ideas.

    Leslie