Un-lawful possession of laying hens

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by kesoaps, Mar 28, 2006.

  1. kesoaps

    kesoaps Well-Known Member

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    For those of you pro-nais who think the rest of us are paranoid...

    This is the kind of thing we're worried about. A person should be able to have chickens without a permit, and those animals shouldn't suffer at the hands of the government. Yes, he was breaking their law, but this is a law we don't need to have here!
     
  2. fordson major

    fordson major construction and Garden b Supporter

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    this happened in canada, actualy less than 50 miles from us. in canada the right to produce eggs,chicks ,broilers and turkeys was signed away in the mid fifties to marketing boards as well as other comodities such as grain ,pigs and milk. while the other marketing boards have weakend their powers over the years, the feather boards as they are called , have increased their powers till you can not sell a dozen eggs or a chicken unless you have quota! they also have the right to enter a property without warrrent and seize property. cops here scratch their heads at these powers of the board and the peneltys that are levied agin an "illegal" chicken farm, they can not enter a property without warent and the penaltys are no were as harsh for stolen property or weed growers ! :stars: :soap: this is just one of the many fights we have with our govt. :duel: and this will stir the pot more! :viking: :duel: :dance:
     

  3. MorrisonCorner

    MorrisonCorner Mansfield, VT for 200 yrs

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    Ok, first of all, this didn't happen in the USA.. so it isn't really relevant to the NAIS discussion. Second of all, there is a BIG difference between 9000 and 100 birds. 9000 birds, assuming 80% of them are laying every day is 50,400 eggs per week. This is not some tiny operation. That's 4,200 dozen eggs produced/week.. over 200,000 per year.

    I'm thinking the government does, when you're selling over 200,000 dozen eggs per year, have something to say about quality of that food product!
     
  4. Taney

    Taney Member

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    If we do not want this to happen here, it is highly relevant. Secondly the federal government here has no authority to do what they're trying to do.
     
  5. BaronsMom

    BaronsMom Well-Known Member

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    Not relevant unless you want to live by Canada's rules
     
  6. Misty

    Misty Misty Gonzales

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    I have to agree with Morrison Corner. It is different than Sally Secretary at work buying a dozen eggs because you have a few extra.
     
  7. fantasymaker

    fantasymaker Well-Known Member

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    Its the same here very simular laws in this country
     
  8. DixyDoodle

    DixyDoodle stranger than fiction

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    I agree with MorrisonCorner. The above story occurred not far from my town.

    There is a BIG difference between someone selling 'hobby farm' eggs at a farmer's market and those who operate a big 'industrial' type farm. Obviously, this guy doesn't just have a little shed that he's keeping his chickens in. What's he doing with the dead chickens? What's he doing with the waste? Is it ok to just let him go his merry way and not have to be accountable for anything? My concern is for the public's health.

    He was selling ungraded eggs. Therefore, he could technically sell you medium-weighted eggs in a large-signed carton. I personally want to know what I'm buying, not be ripped off. Who is going to regulate whether there is disease in his flocks? The larger the operation, the easier it is for disease to spread.

    The fact is that he has been fighting this for many years, and not paid for a licence for what he is doing. He obviously considers himself above the law. It is NOT comparable to someone having 10 chickens in their backyard.

    Yes, some of his chickens died in a transport. Sad, but......he could have moved the tractor that was blocking the transport from moving out and allowing for more ventilation. Is he not partially responsible for that? Sure, maybe the inspectors could have did things different, but I suppose that after 10 years of dickering, they start to lose their patience.

    I wonder, would these supporting landowners be so quick to protect him if they found avian flu running rampant in this guy's barns?

    IMO, there is a way to change the laws, and it is NOT by just going ahead and doing what you want, to heck with the regulations. Some of those laws are there to protect the public and to be fair to all egg producers. Surely this guy didn't think he could get away with doing that forever? I'm sure he will go on whining about how the big bad government inspectors are ruining his way of earning a living, without a thought about how maybe he should have played by the rules and worked in a LEGAL fashion to change those rules he didn't agree with.

    DD
     
  9. palani

    palani Well-Known Member

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    During WWII (oops, I meant to say WWI phase II) , a relative used to raise pullets in the basement of their farm home. Rationing was in affect and city folks used to like to come out to buy a fresh chicken now and then. Ok, it was blackmarket but, dang it, Roosevelt had promised a chicken in every pot. If they had been left in public view the government might have questioned the whole operation.
     
  10. Ross

    Ross Moderator Staff Member Supporter

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    I agree DD, this guy was definately flaunting the law. Unfortunately the law also applies to every backyard flock. It IS illegal to sell a spare dozen eggs to someone in the office. Oddly they can buy it if they come to your "farm"............ We raise a few meat chickens, those I can't sell period, or give away! This isn't so much a NAIS issue it's the supply management quota issue. If you "own" quota you support it, (we're talking many hundreds of thousands of dollars tied up in that license) if you don't own any how are you supposed to start an egg farm? The quota system is driving the small farmer out and the only farms that will be left in 10 years will be very large or industrial farms and hobby farms. Ironic as the quota systems was intended to support small farms!
     
  11. Oxankle

    Oxankle Well-Known Member

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    During WWII no one forbade growing your own food, or sharing it with your neighbors.

    Many families had victory gardens, many had animals of one sort or another. There were pigeons in lofts out back, back yard chickens, a pig where there was room and milk cows were the rule wherever people had the room and know-how.

    I never heard of anyone being "raided" for growing their own food.
    Ox
     
  12. Boleyz

    Boleyz Prognosticator, Artist

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    How long has Canada been Leftist/Socialist in their politics? No wonder they've got no freedom and hate America...

    The lesson I see here is not to fear NAIS, but get off your lazy butts and get politically involved and support CONSERVATIVE, TRADITIONALIST political candidates who aren't afraid to salute the flag, say the pledge, or give our enemies a whuppin' without taking some kind of a "poll" to see if the UN or anyone else "approves".

    For crying out loud people, we're losing it at the ballot box everytime some leftist/socialist gets elected. By the Way, hold those traditionalist/Conservative people to account too. When they back something that is Crap, let em know they'll answer for it back home.

    Too much whining and not enough butt-kicking going on to suit me. I ain't a sheep yet. GO CANADIANS!! HAVE A REVOLUTION!! :bouncy:
     
  13. A.T. Hagan

    A.T. Hagan Guest

    A 10-hour standoff between federal food inspectors and a local egg
    farmer backed by 40 landowners ended Thursday evening when thousands of
    confiscated eggs and chickens - many dead or dying after going hours without
    ventilation or water - were released back to the owner.


    That's what we need to see more of.

    .....Alan.
     
  14. homebirtha

    homebirtha Well-Known Member

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    Ok, you had me until I read that he had 9,000 hens!!! Sorry, I don't feel too bad for this guy. He is a big-time egg producer who tried to get by without registering and paying the fees. He's complaining about how the government treated his birds, but he's the one who blocked the driveway and didn't allow the birds to be moved for hours and hours. What did he think was going to happen to them. Geesh.
     
  15. shelljo

    shelljo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Interesting that our Conservative, traditionalist government is the one who is pushing NAIS.

    Don't think any politician is truely a "traditionalist".
     
  16. snoozy

    snoozy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Just a correction: it was Hoover (of Hooverville fame...) who promised a chicken in every pot, not Roosevelt.
     
  17. Boleyz

    Boleyz Prognosticator, Artist

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    Ya kind of left out my last statement. I think I said they should be held to account too. The way you selectively quote people, you could be a politician yourself...I ain't for NAIS, I'm against leftist/socialists and anyone else who curtails our freedoms. If ya quote this post, try to get it right... :grump:
     
  18. OD

    OD Well-Known Member

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    And what do you think the govt. was going to do with them? Take them to a nice chicken hotel for a vacation?
    Most likely, they were going to take them out somewhere & dig a big hole to dump them in after they killed them with carbon dioxide.
    That's what they did here when they confiscated fighting roosters from an illegal chicken fight.
    They have no compassion whatsoever for "the contraban."
     
  19. Firethorn

    Firethorn Well-Known Member

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    You people realy erk me! :soap:
    How can you say "oh he had 9,000 hens, thhe gov should be involved. It is about the safety of our food" WAAAAAAAAA :Bawling:
    You dont know how those birds were being kept. YOU dont know how he was selling those eggs. If they were ungraded he wasnt selling to the grocery chains.Or they would be liable as well. YOU dont have to buy from someone whoms establishment you do not agree with. If you think just by going to the local store and getting your food that you are safe because of the standards are controled protects you from bad food................ NOT.
    HE should have the right to sell, YOU have the right to go somewhere else!
    The GOV. should not have the right to say poo about it. 10, 100, 9,000. It should be our CHOICE. WHY in GODs( I realy mean, GOD our father) name do we WANT the gov. to have the controle to make the choice for us. FREEDOM means takeing responcability for OURSELVES!
    I am glad he stood up. AND note he was not alone. :rock:
     
  20. DixyDoodle

    DixyDoodle stranger than fiction

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    What? I as a Canadian have no freedom? Gee, I always felt pretty free! You got some examples of that, please? Just remember you have to balance your freedom with the maintenance of a healthy society.......you can't always get what you want, when you want it like a spoiled, selfish child.

    And if you think all Canadians hate the US, then you are sadly misinformed, my friend. That is a very broad statement with little truth behind it. However, there is a difference between wanting to remain friendly with the USA and wanting to automatically follow their example in everything to stay so. We are our own people, with our own ways that we enjoy, freedom included (if you would care to do some research into our history). Americans are wonderful in their own right, but it doesn't necessarily follow that everyone else wants to be an American. Sorry if you (mistakenly) input that as being 'hateful' of other cultures.

    But anyhow, back to the topic at hand: At least I can feel a little better in knowing that the inspectors here are just doing their job: trying to keep a consistant standard of health care that might not be there otherwise. I for one would not want to think that anyone could own thousands of chicken/cattle/pigs which they sell to the public and it becoming illegal for anyone to step in the door for a look-see. The idea that a farmer could 'protect his livelihood' by hiding vast pools of unchecked disease is a scary thought. What about diseases like mad cow/avian flu? Do you honestly think that every stricken farmer would loudly proclaim that their farm has it......or might some play a little poker and keep farming with their fingers crossed?

    If the day comes that Canada allows total unregulated farming, then I just might consider that greencard........

    DD