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In my 30+ year IT career I have never seen high end IT workers come from the military. They are always university graduates.

There are some lower level and mid level IT works from the military, but not in the upper end.

According to Glassdoor
H1B visa workers earn on average about 2.8 percent more than comparable U.S. workers, that’s not the case in every job. H1B workers earn more that U.S. workers in about half of the jobs we examined, but in many cases they earn less, while in others they earn about the same.
This was the US Army Computer Systems Command - the primary computer support for the entire Army. Many of these people were the elite of the elite. The programming group was at least 90% civilian. Many of my friends from there left for high-level positions with Treasury, Secret Service, and other government agencies because they were maxed out with the Army.
 

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The lack of STEM was realized about 5 years ago. They are doing something about it now. It takes a bit of time though. Every college in Texas that I know of has built a STEM program in the last 4 years. I'm sure other states have too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
The government put a ban in effect. Yes they did not change the quota but bypassed that in a different way. Not propaganda just fact.
Show data, not propaganda.

The
97556


is the official source. It says
he H-1B classification has an annual numerical limit (cap) of 65,000 new statuses/visas each fiscal year. An additional 20,000 petitions filed on behalf of beneficiaries with a master’s degree or higher from a U.S. institution of higher education are exempt from the cap. Additionally, H-1B workers who are petitioned for or employed at an institution of higher education or its affiliated or related nonprofit entities, a nonprofit research organization or a government research organization are not subject to this numerical cap.

Just like I said before
 

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H1B visa hopefuls can breathe a sigh of relief — former President Donald Trump’s executive order banning the visa has expired on March 31, 2021. The expiration means that international students no longer have to wait for President Joe Biden to reverse the order. In fact, sources close to the president say he opted not to renew the suspension in order to restore the pipeline of skilled foreign workers.
 

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It doesn't change what I said before. Employers can jolly well educate interested people. Not enough graduates in a field is not an educational failure, it just mean that the field sucks.
 

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College can easily be done in 2 1/2 years. The universities won't set it up that way because if they can keep students there for 4 or 5 years they make more money.

If we really have a shortage, what I would do is structure college like a business. Students show up at 9 am and stay until 5 pm, 5 days a week. A semester class is completed in 2 weeks. Students complete 20-22 courses a year and complete their degree in 2 years.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
College can easily be done in 2 1/2 years. The universities won't set it up that way because if they can keep students there for 4 or 5 years they make more money.

If we really have a shortage, what I would do is structure college like a business. Students show up at 9 am and stay until 5 pm, 5 days a week. A semester class is completed in 2 weeks. Students complete 20-22 courses a year and complete their degree in 2 years.
Universities are a business. They milk it. It took my daughter 5 years just because of the way the semesters were structured.

Sadly, colleges are now having to teach remedial courses that should have been mastered in HS
 

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Universities are a business. They milk it. It took my daughter 5 years just because of the way the semesters were structured.

Sadly, colleges are now having to teach remedial courses that should have been mastered in HS
But right now universities are in financial trouble with enrollments down. It seems to me a few enterprising presidents might be open to trying something like this for their stem programs and steal students from other universities. I've always thought it would be a great platform for someone to run for governor on. Get your degree in 2 years for 25% savings in tuition.
 

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That doesn't sound like a lack of talent, it sounds more like a lack of willingness of employers to: a)attract talent or b)train their own talent. Employers might just have to step up their game a little.
Part of the problem is the people available to train. Due to the poor parenting of many parents and the incredible poor performance of many of out government schools it takes a lot to get many of the available potential employees up to speed. That is if you can get them to show up. Do to a variety of factors its not a surprise so many of our industries are using oversea sources.

Was listing to a NPR program yesterday afternoon and they were talking about Chinese education. A couple of the highlights that I remember were KINDER GARDEN children getting 2 to 3 hours of after school special teaching.

Grade school and Jr grade school students routinely have after school tutors. English and math seemed to be the common subjects. Typical family, $15,000 US money per year per child for just the access to a tutor.

Only 60 percent of the jr grade school kids are allowed into high school. Based on their grades.

Here in the USA trying to obtain such standards does not seem to be even thought about. I am self employed in the building trades. I realize the typical employee is not engineer material. But many cannot manage to reliably handle basic math. Many have very low ability to comprehend the instructions on a can of paint or glue.
 

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You know, when I was still in the working world one company sent me to DC to be trained in a new computer system. Another company flew me down to Atlanta to learn another computer system.

Companies no longer put that kind of financial capital into their employees, they keep all the money at the top and expect whoever works for them to figure out for themselves how their systems work.
 

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My son is a lead software engineer working at a semi-startup in the S.F. Bay area. His company went to hiring people based on practical application testing and practical interviewing directly with the department they'd be working for (at least with the engineers, I think some of the other jobs they do require degrees) a couple of years ago. College degree not required, just ability to do the work. He still says most of their applicants are college graduates with CS degrees, but thinks that will change in the near future.

He and I had had a conversation awhile ago after another relative who is a teacher showed him the common core math she was being required to teach. He thinks it's only going to get worse for STEM fields when those kids come of age for higher math required in those fields.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
My son is a lead software engineer working at a semi-startup in the S.F. Bay area. His company went to hiring people based on practical application testing and practical interviewing directly with the department they'd be working for (at least with the engineers, I think some of the other jobs they do require degrees) a couple of years ago. College degree not required, just ability to do the work. He still says most of their applicants are college graduates with CS degrees, but thinks that will change in the near future.

He and I had had a conversation awhile ago after another relative who is a teacher showed him the common core math she was being required to teach. He thinks it's only going to get worse for STEM fields when those kids come of age for higher math required in those fields.
You are making the point I just tried to make in the thread I just posted. We have been programmed to think college is the only path to good employment.
 

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You are making the point I just tried to make in the thread I just posted. We have been programmed to think college is the only path to good employment.
I agree. Although we did do encourage and support that kid going to college because he had a life plan set out and college made sense for what he wanted to do.

I do think college or something like it is helpful/necessary for certain jobs, especially highly technical jobs or medical type jobs, but I also agree that no one really needs to spend four years plus getting a degree in women's studies or English literature unless it's just for the joy of learning. Being judgemental there too and saying I think there are better ways to learn liberal arts information than college as well (after having sat through enough useless and boring lectures on my own way to a B.F.A.). Want fries with that?
 

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You know, when I was still in the working world one company sent me to DC to be trained in a new computer system. Another company flew me down to Atlanta to learn another computer system.

Companies no longer put that kind of financial capital into their employees, they keep all the money at the top and expect whoever works for them to figure out for themselves how their systems work.
This was exactly my point. Incentive does a lot for gaining and retaining employees, and there is no reason employers can't train people. One would think these specialized fields require specialized training as opposed to some one size fits all college major.
And, for whatever it's worth, STEM embraces a whole bunch of college majors so maybe low STEM grad rates aren't really the problem here.
 

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My training company was able to give college credit for Novell certified network engineer (CNE) courses. There was a partnership with Pima Community College in AZ where a student could complete the course at our facility, pass the online exam, and pay a fee to Pima to get college credits from them with a transcript they could use at other colleges. I remember there were other colleges that would give credit for CNE courses if you enrolled. I think a student could earn up to about 20 credits through the courses we offered.
 

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You know, when I was still in the working world one company sent me to DC to be trained in a new computer system. Another company flew me down to Atlanta to learn another computer system.

Companies no longer put that kind of financial capital into their employees, they keep all the money at the top and expect whoever works for them to figure out for themselves how their systems work.
I think the main reason is technology doesn't change that much anymore. For example, when Windows 95 first came out, a lot of people needed training. As newer versions of Windows came out, there usually wasn't a need for training. I sold my training company in 2002 because the demand for training had dropped over 50%. That was before online training had gotten big, which I saw was going to shrink the demand for classroom training even more.
 
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