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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Point to a further failure of the US education system
  • The U.S. does not have enough high-skilled workers to meet demand for computer-related jobs, and employers are seeking immigrant talent to help fill that gap, according to a new report.
  • For every unemployed computer or math worker in the country in 2020, there were more than seven job postings for computer-related occupations, bipartisan immigration research group New American Economy found in the study.
 

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Point to a further failure of the US education system
  • The U.S. does not have enough high-skilled workers to meet demand for computer-related jobs, and employers are seeking immigrant talent to help fill that gap, according to a new report.
  • For every unemployed computer or math worker in the country in 2020, there were more than seven job postings for computer-related occupations, bipartisan immigration research group New American Economy found in the study.
That doesn't sound like a lack of talent, it sounds more like a lack of willingness of employers to: a)attract talent or b)train their own talent. Employers might just have to step up their game a little.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That doesn't sound like a lack of talent, it sounds more like a lack of willingness of employers to: a)attract talent or b)train their own talent. Employers might just have to step up their game a little.
We simply produce too few STEM graduates

97554
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
That doesn't sound like a lack of talent, it sounds more like a lack of willingness of employers to: a)attract talent or b)train their own talent. Employers might just have to step up their game a little.
A company is not responsible for the basic training for the needed people. They may train in some very company specific technologies, but they have to have a pool to draw from that come from universities and trade schools.

Employers have no problem attracting foreign workers. We simply do not produce these highly educated people in large enough volume.

Both of my kids are high tech workers, and they make very good money. Their benefit packages are incredible.
 

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That's a bunch of BS. Back in 1976, I was hired by the Army for an intern program to become a Computer Analyst, because universities weren't turning them out fast enough. We went through 40 hours/week training for 6 months and then 1 1/2 years of on-the-job training, which simply meant you started working without any more training.

Three or 4 of us were really serious about the training and probably spent another 20 hours a week working nights to make sure our programs worked. Back then everything was a batch job and our programs ran after all the production jobs ran, so if you wanted more than 1 run a day, you worked nights. At the end of 6 months, I lucked out and was selected to work in operating systems. By the end of 2 years, I would say I was way ahead of someone who had a 4-year degree in IT and a little behind someone who had a degree in computer science.

What that tells me is quality computer people could easily be developed in 2-4 years. What they really want is high IQ's on the cheap. They want to go to countries like China and India and steal their best and brightest. And when they steal them from China, they likely are importing a spy.
 

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We simply produce too few STEM graduates

View attachment 97554
Apprenticeship programs are good for employers wanting to train STEM workers.
It's about incentive.
I have some college education in computer science but decided it isn't the direction I want to go. My major is still in science but agricultute related. You couldn't pay me enough to sit around at a desk all day writing code or algorithms. Again, incentive on the part of employers is where it's at. It isn't the fault of students that the field is unattractive to them. Employers need to make it attractive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
That's a bunch of BS. Back in 1976, I was hired by the Army for an intern program to become a Computer Analyst, because universities weren't turning them out fast enough. We went through 40 hours/week training for 6 months and then 1 1/2 years of on-the-job training, which simply meant you started working without any more training.

Three or 4 of us were really serious about the training and probably spent another 20 hours a week working nights to make sure our programs worked. Back then everything was a batch job and our programs ran after all the production jobs ran, so if you wanted more than 1 run a day, you worked nights. At the end of 6 months, I lucked out and was selected to work in operating systems. By the end of 2 years, I would say I was way ahead of someone who had a 4-year degree in IT and a little behind someone who had a degree in computer science.

What that tells me is quality computer people could easily be developed in 2-4 years. What they really want is high IQ's on the cheap. They want to go to countries like China and India and steal their best and brightest. And when they steal them from China, they likely are importing a spy.
In my 30+ year IT career I have never seen high end IT workers come from the military. They are always university graduates.

There are some lower level and mid level IT works from the military, but not in the upper end.

According to Glassdoor
H1B visa workers earn on average about 2.8 percent more than comparable U.S. workers, that’s not the case in every job. H1B workers earn more that U.S. workers in about half of the jobs we examined, but in many cases they earn less, while in others they earn about the same.
 

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It does not help that the immigration policy in the US during the last 4 years also pushed those highly educated students from other countries who went to graduate school in the US, to immigrate to other countries.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Apprenticeship programs are good for employers wanting to train STEM workers.
It's about incentive.
I have some college education in computer science but decided it isn't the direction I want to go. My major is still in science but agricultute related. You couldn't pay me enough to sit around at a desk all day writing code or algorithms. Again, incentive on the part of employers is where it's at. It isn't the fault of students that the field is unattractive to them. Employers need to make it attractive.
High tech pay is very high.

According to the BLS
The median annual wage for computer and information technology occupations was $91,250 in May 2020, which was higher than the median annual wage for all occupations of $41,950.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
It does not help that the immigration policy in the US during the last 4 years also pushed those highly educated students from other countries who went to graduate school in the US, to immigrate to other countries.
You always gotta take your BS shots

There have been no changes to the H1B Quota Cap since 2004. If we were to put in a table and graph, this is how it would look.
 

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High tech pay is very high.

According to the BLS
The median annual wage for computer and information technology occupations was $91,250 in May 2020, which was higher than the median annual wage for all occupations of $41,950.
It doesn't change the fact that people don't seem very interested in the field. So, how do you make it interesting?

I'd rather make mediocre income at a job that I find interesting than make good money at a high stress job that doesn't particularly appeal to me. Money isn't everything
 

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You always gotta take your BS shots

There have been no changes to the H1B Quota Cap since 2004. If we were to put in a table and graph, this is how it would look.
You should do some more investigating before you call crap on my post.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It doesn't change the fact that people don't seem very interested in the field. So, how do you make it interesting?

I'd rather make mediocre income at a job that I find interesting than make good money at a high stress job that doesn't particularly appeal to me. Money isn't everything
I am not arguing that the occupation itself might not appeal to people in the US. For some reason it appeals to many other countries. No doubt high finance might look better than high tech.
 
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I am not arguing that the occupation itself might not appeal to people in the US. For some reason it appeals to many other countries. No doubt high finance might look better than high tech.
This makes sense. For immigrants, the money aspect might hold more weight than it does to those of us in the US. They may well care less what the job looks like if the money is good. Or, maybe for some cultural or personal reasons, that kind of work actually DOES appeal to them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
This makes sense. For immigrants, the money aspect might hold more weight than it does to those of us in the US. They may well care less what the job looks like if the money is good. Or, maybe for some cultural or personal reasons, that kind of work actually DOES appeal to them.
You seem to think the job does not appeal to most Americans because it did not appeal to you.

Like I said, I worked in IT for over 30 years. I loved it. I worked with Indians, Chinese and all kinds of people although most of them were American white people, fairly evenly split male/female. Also, like I said, both of my kids went into tech, at my urging them to do otherwise.

In all my years I saw all types attracted to IT. Normally, like yourself, college weeds out the ones that don't like it.
 

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You seem to think the job does not appeal to most Americans because it did not appeal to you.

Like I said, I worked in IT for over 30 years. I loved it. I worked with Indians, Chinese and all kinds of people although most of them were American white people, fairly evenly split male/female. Also, like I said, both of my kids went into tech, at my urging them to do otherwise.

In all my years I saw all types attracted to IT. Normally, like yourself, college weeds out the ones that don't like it.
So back to your original post: how exactly does this point to a failure in the education system?
 

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You still spout crap. Give me data to back up your claim. I gave you data, reply in kind.
Okay but don't blame me if this thread gets tossed.




Those links should get you started.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Okay but don't blame me if this thread gets tossed.




Those links should get you started.
None of those show the cap being lowered.

You just supplied propaganda.
 
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