Trees and THEN fence, or visa versa??

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by cc-rider, Nov 3, 2005.

  1. cc-rider

    cc-rider Baroness of TisaWee Farm Supporter

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    The farmer finally took the corn off and now I own my 3-1/2 acres of land (and can see it!). I have basically a bare slate to work with - and that is exciting.

    This square of land is surrounded on 3 sides by farm ground. I'd like to fence in the back 2 acres for livestock (only chickens, a couple pigs...maybe a steer). I'd also like to plant a windbreak between my land and the farm ground surrounding me.

    My question: Do I plant the trees on the outside - maybe back 10' or so from the property line (so they have room to grow without impinging on the neighbor's property - and also not as likely to get "sprayed" by whatever he sprays, and then put the pasture fence on my side of the trees....

    or do I do it visa versa? Putting the fence on the outside would mean I could run it right to the property line. But then the windbreak would be on the inside of the fence, and I'd have to fence the windbreak off so that the critters wouldn't ruin them while they are small.

    I can see benefits both ways. Whaddya think???
     
  2. Paranoid

    Paranoid Homebrewed Happiness

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    i like the idea of defining boundries, so i'd fence it, then tree it. just be sure when you plant the tree's in relation to the fence you space them as though they were mature so they dont pull it up several years down the line.
     

  3. ace admirer

    ace admirer Well-Known Member Supporter

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    pardon my ignorance, is the crop land no till or rowed? how are you going to get it in shape for a pasture? you're right you have a clean slate now...but if you plant trees and put up a fence you don't. i'd say prepare the land first while you still have enough room to turn a tractor around. if you haven't ticked the farmer off already, maybe he will be kind enough to allow you to turn around on the surrounding land. its kinda tough to smooth soil on a small plot. after you're satisfied with the lay of the soil, then, like others have suggested, its more logical to put the fence (i don't think you will be able to place it on the line with out an agreement)just inside the line. then look at what type of trees you want and how large they will spread. then you're got to work out young trees mixed with hungry animals...the two will not mix. electric maybe until they have grown? but they still find a way....

    with the price of chemicals, i don't think you will have to worry about "spray" alot. a good farmer will control overspray so that only his fields gets the benefit of the stuff.

    since you are going to be in the area, you might think about taking time to learn alittle about the land and its stewards so you don't seem so.....out of touch. you migh even get some help on how to take care of your plot and help on that fence sure would come in handy...wonder what zone you are in?
     
  4. mary,tx

    mary,tx Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The fence should go right on the property line. To bring it in would be to invite boundary problems/disputes further down the line.
    mary
     
  5. cc-rider

    cc-rider Baroness of TisaWee Farm Supporter

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    You are correct... it is rowed. I've already asked the adjoining farmer if he'd chop and disk or plow the fields for me when he does his. And I'd pay him well. If he doesn't want to bother, or can't do it in a timely manner, I've already decided that I'll pull all the corn stalks out by hand (I started last night) and then use my huge rototiller on it. At least enough of an area to get the orchard and berries in that are sitting in buckets in my garage. I may not have a tractor, but I have ambition and stick-to-itivnus.

    I also thought, maybe incorrectly, that I could just fence in the pig's pasture with the corn stubble still standing and let them take care of it.

    I'm not sure why you feel that I'm out of touch. I've lived within 10 miles of this place for the last 10 years.... and in the same county for the last 47. (Oops...gave away my age) I was married to a farmer for 10 years, and farmed a small "gentleman's farm" for another 10 after that. I've pretty well done whatever I've set my mind out to do - with advice and suggestions from people on this board and elsewehere.

    You're right, though, help with fencing would be greatly appreciated.

    I'm in zone 5. Northwest Ohio. Where I'm running out of time to get those trees in the ground and that is why I'm considering pulling all the corn by hand in order to just get it done!!! And please don't tell me that I should have planned better.... I just bought the land on Labor Day and couldn't take physical possession until the farmer took his corn off. Which was this past week.

    Chris
     
  6. cc-rider

    cc-rider Baroness of TisaWee Farm Supporter

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    That's what I was thinking. Although there are stakes at all four corners, and a post with a bright yellow plastic tubing over it at the back two. I can see that the farmer hit it at least once during this fall..... it's listing starboard. :) I *could* put the fence in my direction a tad just to keep it from getting snagged by his equipment. Especially if I leave up the obnoxious yellow posts.
     
  7. ace admirer

    ace admirer Well-Known Member Supporter

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    i just wonder how one person can put a fence ON the line...the line does not belong to one individual...how can two different owners both put their fence on the line... does one have more right to run a fence than another? now each state has its own laws....but better check into that,
     
  8. ace admirer

    ace admirer Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Hi CC rider, that was just an assumption on my part...sorry i was taking qlues from the word "spray" and possably your not understanding crop seasons....my bad...

    know anything about high tensile fencing? other than the corners, its easier than other fencing...and cheaper. alittle electricity controls a lot of animals,,,,sometimes even the two legged type...

    cc rider?...what kind of ride?

    ps don't take the stake thing personal....i hit one of my own gates with equipment just about every year. he should have set the stake back up though.
     
  9. mary,tx

    mary,tx Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Normally the fence goes on the line, and is either mutually maintained, or maintained by whoever will maintain it.
    The problem with putting a fence inside your property line is that, in essence, you have given the property on the other side to your neighbor. In Texas, at least when I was doing titles, and it may be different where you are, if the neighbor can show that he has used that land "adversely" and without interferance for a certain number of years, it becomes his. Thus by moving the fence in, you eventually may have your property line moved in to match the fenceline. You have at least opened yourself up for a dispute, and disputes do not make for good neighbors.
    mary
     
  10. bretthunting

    bretthunting Well-Known Member

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    i agree with mary. we purchased 80 acres 2 years ago and there is part of our fence that "jogs" out of line with the rest of the fence.i checked into this at the local land office and was told that if had been permanantly fenced this way for 7 or more years,then that piece of land was leagally mine.
    hope this may help clear things up. may be differant in your state.
     
  11. cc-rider

    cc-rider Baroness of TisaWee Farm Supporter

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    Actually, I've never fenced. My fields were always bordered by OTHER fields and I never had animals. Other than my chickens....which are in a chicken tractor with a "snow fence" fence-run here in town. And they constantly escape. My biggest fear with the new place and pigs is that they will escape.

    To put up high tensile fencing.... is that the rolled stuff that has (for instance) 2X4 holes? Or are you talking individual strands of wire, and then electrified? I was considering electric fencing, with the pounded in posts and tape, and then a small run constructed of hog (or multi-purpose) panels for times that I feared the power would go out making the fence worthless.

    I'll admit, I'm clueless about fencing at this point. I'm taking this whole endeavor one step at a time. Ask me about septic systems!!! I'm an expert now! (I just had it put in a couple weeks ago). I can only learn one new area at a time.

    Hehehehe. I wish. I have a wimpy Yamaha. Actually, my initials and last name - abbreviated - are cc-rider. One of my childrens' teachers came up with that when I had volunteered for a school function and she had packed brown-bag lunches for all of the kids and helpers. Mine said "CC-Rider" on it, and the name has stuck for these last 20 years.

    Chris
     
  12. Southernman

    Southernman Well-Known Member

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  13. seedspreader

    seedspreader AFKA ZealYouthGuy

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    Chris, keep up the good work, don't let the naysayers get you down. The farmer will probably till it or disc it for you. I am sure he is not a tyrant.

    My advice is to fence it and then put trees up. In my opinion, you will want to wait on the trees for at least one season to see how the sun falls/travels. When I was younger I always wanted a "blank slate" like you have, but when I bought I got the whole gambit, trees, old farm field, some seasonal creeks, a little marshland area. I am thankful for those trees this year for the firewood they are providing.

    Out where you are, it would seem very important to me to get some west and north borders covered with windbreaks. I spent the coldest day (feeling-wise) out at Bowling Green during a college track meet. That place was bitter cold from the wind.
     
  14. ace admirer

    ace admirer Well-Known Member Supporter

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    if you have a tractor supply store around, they usually have a tape on high tensile fencing that they will let you take home... anyway. the high tensile is a heavely galvanized wire that has a tensile strength of 150,000 or 200,000 psi depending on brand you purchase.. the wire is kept at a tensile stress of 200 lbs by a combination of a takeup device and a spring. the corner post have to be very stong and properly install or the whole excerise is a big waste of time. basically 8 inch or larger corner post set 4+ feet in ground then brace post with laterial timbers and wire tensioner. its pretty scientific...there's a right way and just about everything else is the wrong way. the wire will last 20+ years (i have some that is 30 years old with no sign of failure). once the corners are set, its very fast and relative easy to run the fence...best used for straight runs. easiest with flat land. a few decisions to make based on electric or not, soil moisture, wild deer or not. type of animals you plan to try to keep in (or out) anyway if interested i have run about 15 miles of the stuff over the past 30 years. i've made just about every mistake to be made with it. so i might be able to help you with it.
     
  15. cc-rider

    cc-rider Baroness of TisaWee Farm Supporter

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    That's why they call it "Blow-ing Green" :) I spent 13 years working at BGSU. You've hit the nail on the head!

    This parcel I bought is 290' wide x 520' deep or so. Road is on the north, so can't really put a windbreak there. Put the septic in the northeast (closest to the road) since I wanted to save as much of the back as I could for pasture (which can't be over a septic field). That's all that has been done so far, except for a culvert to cross the bit of a ditch at the road. The land lays pretty flat, except for a nice hill in the middle (a northwest Ohio hill --- maybe a rise of 10 foot!?) :)

    I'm going to order trees from the conservation agency this spring. I want enough for about 810' of windbreak - the west and south side. (I know...shouldn't put them on the south, but that is the property line between me and the field. The road is on the north.) The east property line is going to be bordered with the blackberries and rhubarb plants. I'm going to put in a row of Austrian Pines (don't mind poor soil, mine is heavy with clay... and they grow fast), and then a row of American Plum. (Same thing...plus I get the fruit!). Prices are great! 25 trees for $15. I've bought from them before and they are usually pretty nice trees. Thought about arborviteas, but supposedly deer love them, and there are tons of deer around there. I see at least one in my "field" every time I go there. Three last night!

    Thanks for the encouragement! You know me by now... I don't let things get me down. Actually, it makes me more determined to do things MY way. (And Ace Admirer didn't mean anything - he just didn't know me as well as you and others do!) :)
     
  16. cc-rider

    cc-rider Baroness of TisaWee Farm Supporter

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    Wow...that's a pretty heavy-duty corner post!!!! Do you need anything special to "stretch" the wire once you get the corner posts secure? How many strands of wire do you run? I'll have to see if our local store has a video.

    I'm guessing my soil stays pretty moist - lots of clay. And there are deer around because of the woods, but I don't know if they'd bother me when there are corn fields, etc., around. (Duh. Forgot about the garden. Free salad bar. Ok. I need to keep deer out). I'm assuming this kind of fence wouldn't be good for chickens, though, would it?

    Wish you didn't live so darned far away...... I could use a mentor. How are you at cleaning chickens??? Hehehe.
     
  17. seedspreader

    seedspreader AFKA ZealYouthGuy

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    Ever think of going with a 6 foot mound of dirt on your north end, except for the drive of course??? I am becoming a big believer in berms along the roadways around here.
     
  18. bgak47

    bgak47 Well-Known Member

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    I would define the property lines, even if you just use t-posts & string untill you can afford to fence & get the labor done. You'll be having cold weather there soon, so it's probably too late to do much fencing or tree planting this year. Good Luck!
     
  19. cc-rider

    cc-rider Baroness of TisaWee Farm Supporter

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    Yeah, the fencing will definately be a "next spring" project, although I wish it was done now so that I could move the chickens out there, or get a couple pigs started. Just as well that I don't.... I still live in town and would hate the twice-a-day trip out there.

    I intend on leaving up the corner markers permanently. Good idea, though, about running SOMETHING. I currently have electric fence posts in the ground with orange caution tape running around them to define the septic and leachfield areas. I was afraid the farmer would try driving over my new system when he came to take corn off. It worked, he didn't. :)
     
  20. seedspreader

    seedspreader AFKA ZealYouthGuy

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    You wouldn't want to overwinter the pigs anyways... so stick with whatever you can do that doesn't involve livestock for now!