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Our 9 day freshened doe still has yucky milk. Hubby said it tasted salty--which I didn't detect, but it did set off a red flag for me.

We have been milking Lightning out twice a day since she kidded and the kid has been on her. He was only nursing one side, but we were careful to milk out the other completely. I never noticed her being engorged. Could she still have mastitis? I know salty suggests that.

Our local coop does not sell any mastitis tests or indicators. But they do sell Today treatment. Can we assume she has mastitis and treat her? Will it hurt her to treat her if she doesn't have it? I hate to wait another week to get test stuff from Hoeggers.

I am going to milk her three times today, instead of two, since we pulled the kid off last night. Is there anything else I should be doing in case she does have mastitis?

Dee
 

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I believe salty taste is a sign of mastitis.I would milk and milk to get rid of any bacteria and I would give her all the vitamin C she will take in.Then treat with the today infusion and then start over the next day.You have to give shots of antibiotic too.
 

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Infusing can bring it's own bacteria into the udder, giving your doe mastitis that she didn't even have before. Hoegrrrrrr's has no test for mastitis.....send in a sample to LSU, they are free right now, just shipping...we have the information to contact them on our goatkeeping 101 section at dairygoatinfo.com

And no infusion on it's own is going to cure mastitis in a lactating doe. It's infusions every 12 hours while you are milking done for 3 days...systemic anitibiotics which in most cases need to be vet scripts...an expensive endevor to be guessing on. Vicki
 

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Infusing can bring it's own bacteria into the udder, giving your doe mastitis that she didn't even have before. Hoegrrrrrr's has no test for mastitis>>>>

O.K., so I'm officially confused. Hoeggers sells mastitis indicators and the CMT. Do these not test for mastitis? They also sell Today and have instructions for use. So this is not acceptable information?

<<<<send in a sample to LSU, they are free right now, just shipping...we have the information to contact them on our goatkeeping 101 section at dairygoatinfo.com>>>

I will check that out. How critical is the time factor right now? If she does have mastitis don't I need to treat ASAP?

<<<And no infusion on it's own is going to cure mastitis in a lactating doe. It's infusions every 12 hours while you are milking done for 3 days...systemic anitibiotics which in most cases need to be vet scripts...an expensive endevor to be guessing on. Vicki>>>

do you mean you can't drink the milk for 3 days? I'm not quite clear on the infusions every 12 hours and milking done for 3 days part. I'm a bit slow sometimes. :rolleyes:

The only Today I could find around here was two expired tubes at our local feed store. They said everyone's getting out of dairy, so they don't carry alot of what they used to. :flame:

One last question. Do goats tend to get mastitis on one side only? The Hoegger help line said that they do tend to and suggested we do a "side by side" taste test. We tried it tonight. We milked each side into a separate bowl. One side tasted a bit stronger, but both still had the yucky taste we've tasted since we first tried it on day 4. It's not as strong as it was, but still there.

Also, BTW, we did a fecal today -- and it was clear.

I just don't know what I should do here. I'm getting conflicting advice all over the place and I feel like I need to do SOMETHING now.

Thanks Vicki and everyone for your help.

Dee
 

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with the CMT you can only test if there is an infection but not what kind of bacteria. if you want to treat with TODAY, take a sample first and send it in for culture. if you treat the udder with some infusions be painfully clean so you don't add any bacteria.
mild cases of mastitis are responding to more milking, means if you can, every two hours. keep the udder as clean as possible. jeffers sells a cream called "Masto Cream" in very light cases that might help as well.
 

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I wouldn't treat anything without a real test. Taste testing is not a proper indicator of mastitis.
 

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you really shoud have a sample sent in and tested if you really suspect mastitis. is taste the only reason? not hot, tender, inflamed or anything? does she have a temp? I don't know if you have ever breastfed but if you haven't let me tell you, anything goes wrong concerning infection or blocked ducts and OUCH! you know it. I'm not sure that the cma is even accurate due to the different properties in goat milk. from my understanding it is only useful if performed on a regular basis so that you have an idea of how much each goats milk normally coagulates as an individual. if it were a person they would say nurse nurse nurse and nurse some more, get that milk flowing.
 

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MamaDee said:
Infusing can bring it's own bacteria into the udder, giving your doe mastitis that she didn't even have before. Hoegrrrrrr's has no test for mastitis>>>>

O.K., so I'm officially confused. Hoeggers sells mastitis indicators and the CMT. Do these not test for mastitis? They also sell Today and have instructions for use. So this is not acceptable information?
.....................................

The Dr. Naylors cards simply don't work on goats.....the CMT which you can make your own with regular Dawn dishwashing liquid...just put equal amounts of milk and Dawn dishwashing liquid in a shallow bowl, now swirl it together...does it gel? Gel means high somatic cell count, no gel, it isn't high. What does this tell you? Nothing. Some of my does always gel, they do have higher somatic cell counts than their counterparts who never gel...now a never gel doe here who gels, well yes I would send her milk in for a test to see what is going on. By the time you have masitis you don't need any card or swirl to tell you...she is ill. Now subclincial mastitis can cause the problems you are having, it is usually staph...so send in the milktest and find out. Do NOT!!! use infusions, or anything like the injectable nonsense they carry in their catalog on your doe, it can ruin her udder forever. There instructions are the same that are on the box for cows...no way will that work to clear mastitis, you can treat symptoms with it, but cure it? Cure a bacterial infection that is systemic in her bloodstream with a cream antibiotic that goes into the teat?

<<<<send in a sample to LSU, they are free right now, just shipping...we have the information to contact them on our goatkeeping 101 section at dairygoatinfo.com>>>

I will check that out. How critical is the time factor right now? If she does have mastitis don't I need to treat ASAP? Subclinical staph mastitis is not an emergency, you will want to find out, treat her now, and then dry cow infuse her after you are through milking her for the year. A doe like this can pass staph to everyone, so milk her last, she likely caught this from her dam or other does in the herd, so you might want to test all your milkers.

<<<And no infusion on it's own is going to cure mastitis in a lactating doe. It's infusions every 12 hours while you are milking done for 3 days...systemic anitibiotics which in most cases need to be vet scripts...an expensive endevor to be guessing on. Vicki>>>

do you mean you can't drink the milk for 3 days? I'm not quite clear on the infusions every 12 hours and milking done for 3 days part. I'm a bit slow sometimes. :rolleyes:

No biggy...it's alot to absorb....you will milk her out in the morning, infuse....milk her out that night, infuse. the next morning for 3 infusions in each side. You treat both sides and give systemic shots even if it is in one half.

The only Today I could find around here was two expired tubes at our local feed store. They said everyone's getting out of dairy, so they don't carry alot of what they used to. :flame:

Depending on feed stores for meds is expensive. Order what you need from jeffers once you get your diagnosis back.

One last question. Do goats tend to get mastitis on one side only? The Hoegger help line said that they do tend to and suggested we do a "side by side" taste test. We tried it tonight. We milked each side into a separate bowl. One side tasted a bit stronger, but both still had the yucky taste we've tasted since we first tried it on day 4. It's not as strong as it was, but still there.

Of course you can get mastitis in one side, just like us, just like cows, all mammals including male mammals. The whole taste idea I gave you was to make sure it was coming out icky out of the doe herself, not from your containers, barn, or not chilling.

Also, BTW, we did a fecal today -- and it was clear.
......................

Sorry but who did it? They found no eggs, no cocci, no nothing? A goat would be dead in my herd with a fecal like that.

I just don't know what I should do here. I'm getting conflicting advice all over the place and I feel like I need to do SOMETHING now.

You do need to do something. You need to milk her, move to 3 times a day if you can. Get a big bottle of chewable vitamin C from wallmart and smash them, or grind them up in a blender or food processor. Give her a tablespoon 3 times a day over her grain. Get the molassas out of her grain. Make sure her minerals are helping the copper problems you have in your area. Give her a bo-se shot for her immunity. Send in the milk sample, do all of the above religiously until you get the results back. If it comes back as nothing...no sensitivity to anything....than cull her, or let her raise kids for you....goatlings don't care about milk taste :)

Vicki
 

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Discussion Starter #9
<<<you really shoud have a sample sent in and tested if you really suspect mastitis. is taste the only reason? not hot, tender, inflamed or anything? does she have a temp? I don't know if you have ever breastfed but if you haven't let me tell you, anything goes wrong concerning infection or blocked ducts and OUCH! you know it>>>

Yes, this is just all based on taste. I originally assumed it was "just freshened" tasting milk. But it's day 10 today post freshening. And DH is the one who said it tasted salty...that's why I started thinking about mastitis. She doesn't have a temp. Her appitite is fine. And yes, I have breastfed. Actually am breastfeeding my fifth child right now, who just turned a year. I nursed them all 2 years plus.....so I did know instinctively today that I should go down at lunch time and milk her an extra time. But....I also assumed that mastitis in goats was like humans. I've had mastitis--you don't monkey around with it. You don't wait a week for tests to come back or you're in big time trouble. I didn't know about subclinical mastitis in goats. Why don't books tell you this stuff?!!!

<<<Subclinical staph mastitis is not an emergency, you will want to find out, treat her now, and then dry cow infuse her after you are through milking her for the year>>>

O.K., good to know. I feel better about doing that now. I will do it.

<<<milk her last, she likely caught this from her dam or other does in the herd, so you might want to test all your milkers>>>

We do milk her last. So no issue there. If she caught this from HER dam can it stay in her system for a year? We bought her at 3 weeks old and she just freshened for the first time here. Her mother is not on our property. If she caught it from one of our other milkers (we have three) wouldn't their milk taste nasty, too? Or not always so. Is staph subclinical mastitis something she couldn't have already had and it just shows up now b/c she is now milking? How does it work? I'm used to mastitis (human) being caused by not nursing enough, plugged ducts, etc. I assumed since we were keeping her milked out properly she wouldn't have this problem.



<<<Also, BTW, we did a fecal today -- and it was clear.
......................

Sorry but who did it? They found no eggs, no cocci, no nothing? A goat would be dead in my herd with a fecal like that>>>

The vet did it. I've already went round and round with this vet about "normal" amounts of stuff in poop. They had found cocci in one of our yearling does awhile back, and we treated everybody. We had the argument then about "some" cocci being o.k. They didn't seem to agree with that theory. :shrug: This doe had no symptoms except she was thin. I have since learned that her whole line is on the thin side. I probably didn't have to treat her at all.....live and learn. Today the vet just said he found no worms. He didn't elaborate on what that meant.

And thanks so much for the concrete plan of action. I'm still hoping I'll wake up and her milk will taste great. Part of me still hopes it's just a recent freshening problem. Not a medical problem. But....I'll treat it like possible mastitis until I know. Thanks for the great info.

Dee
 

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Well, we sent our milk samples off for the free test from LSU. It wasn't exactly free--you have to overnight ship it--to the tune of $24.50 at the post office. :flame: DH about had a fit.

Can someone tell me how they test there? And why that's better than the California mastitis test or even the indicator cards. Then I'll feel better and I can tell DH, too. :rolleyes:

Dee
 

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CMT only tells you if your doe has elevated somatic cells in our milk, this can or may not mean she even has mastitis. The Dr. Naylor cards are bunk, the amount of bacteria in a goats udder that would turn the card green....well from fever, not walking from the pain in the udder, nasty stringy green icky milk, well you certainly don't need a card to tell you this. In fact an old saying was "When the card turns green the goat is already ruined from mastitis".

LSU is going to culture the milk to see what they can grow in it, what kind of bacteria cultures in the milk.

If this comes back as normal, than you have a doe with just poor milk, don't waste any more money trying to fix it.

If your minerals are normal, if she is getting enough to eat ( and don't say that another goat in your herd is fine, she is herself not the other goat...they are in different levels of the totem pole being picked on, she also just freshened during the hottest part of the year etc...) so something either in her is making her not milk good tasteing milk, or something she is or is not eating.

You will spend a great deal more than the $24 if she has mastitis, and why you don't guess, because if it comes back with nothing from the sample, you will have saved infusions, and two antibiotics. Vicki
 

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I would've waited the full 2 suggested weeks to get this worried. Not all goats are the same, and since this is this doe's first lactation with you, I believe it's quite early for you to be worried. I'd give a new doe at least 2 weeks post freshening for her milk to taste better, with no other symptoms of illness. My does both had horrid milk at 10 days fresh, but was notably better tasting, actually drinkable, at exactly 2 weeks fresh. It didn't get extremely tasty till about 3 weeks fresh. I don't know about you, but I've ALWAYS heard to give the milk at least 2 weeks post freshening before drinking. I know some drink earlier than that, but I doubt it is the norm. Remember all does vary... She may just be a good colostrum producer or is currently stressed over having her baby taken away and over being milked...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
My does both had horrid milk at 10 days fresh, but was notably better tasting, actually drinkable, at exactly 2 weeks fresh. It didn't get extremely tasty till about 3 weeks fresh. >>>

This gives me hope, Dona! Hubby said he would put it on cereal right now--not me, though. She's 2 weeks fresh in a couple more days.....so we'll see. DH is convinced she is fine. I get that, but I want to be sure. We have people wanting to buy milk and I have five kids wanting to drink it (the human kind) If there's even a chance she has subclinical mastitis I want to know. Still haven't gotten an answer on the safety of consuming it if she does. But if this comes back fine you can bet the next time I won't be spending $24.50 so soon without any other symptoms.

And Vicki, I appreciate the tutorial on mastitis testing. Never thought I'd have to know so much about goats to have goats--if that makes sense. Somehow I've got to figure out how to get goats in our homeschool lesson plans since we're spending so much time with them--and school supposed to start soon! :baby04:

Dee
 

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This is a very old thread. Many participants aren't common forum-goers anymore.
 
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