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Discussion in 'Shop Talk' started by Ken Scharabok, Sep 13, 2006.
What is the name of the .22 powered gun which shoots nailes to secure stub wall bases to concrete?
brand name hilti probably spelt wrong. cartridge nail gun
i recommend using as short of nails as you can get by with. it is a good idea to have someone else hold the tool FIRMLY against the stud when you strike it. my brother and i had some issues while using one in february this year. if the nail does not penetrate on the first blow, you stand a slim chance of driving it in any further. they don't like to be pulled back out either. we ended up prying the entire bottom stud from a concrete floor because of a few bad nails. we tried to drive them in and pry them out and split the board.
Remington makes a couple of types, one with a trigger one with a striker top you hit with a hammer. Ramset?
Ramset is the one I'm familiar with.
Ya' all are both right. Hilti is one and Ramset is the other. Each use a powder charge to drive nails or other fasteners into concrete or steel. Noisey little buggers but they do a wonderful job when used properly. Hilti actually will train you and give you a license to operate their tools if you are a commercial user.
Ken in Glassboro, NJ
Even though it takes more time, I personaly like to use masonry screws. I've seen far too many sills installed wrong or not secured well enough. If you do go the short nail route, be aware you should drive more nails otherwise your sill may not stay where you want it over the life of your home/shed/project. If you are anywhere where twisters or 'canes blow, you really should use screws and adhesive.
Usage being evaluated isn't studs. I have an air-powered blacksmithing power hammer. Currently sits on a 1/2" pad, but still wants to walk across the floor a bit during use. Am considering building an angle iron frame around base and then using the ramset to spike it down with say 12 nails. Angle iron would not have any upward stress and really very little sideways.
Theory is blacksmithing tools tend to get move around as shop configuration changes. Here I would just need to grind off nail heads, remove angle iron and then grind nail heads flush with concrete floor. In a new position, just nail down angle iron again.
Type of nail shown me at outlet sticks out of end of ramset, so I can put tip into predrilled hole in angle iron.
Drill large holes, insert threaded studs, pack around 'flowers of sulfur' (pharmacy), ignite such, avoid fumes. They will not ever pull out or shake loose. The holes need to be twice the size of the studs. This is for concrete floor applications only. 20 minutes cooling time before application.
Ken I think that'd work OK but I only really use the ramset as a last resort. Tapcons might be easier in the long run.
MooPups: You must have posted before reading my second posting. I do not want large, ugly holes in the shop floor. If this works, and I move the hammer, you shouldn't be able to tell it was once there.
The vibration will work the ramset "studs" loose. When the base is moved the concrete around the fasterners will be shatter and you will have dimples, not clean concrete with a fastener inserted that can be ground off. Drill completely through the floor with a masonary bit, inset the expandable fasterners that a stud/bolt is designed to work with. When you move the machine remove the nut and drive the fastener through the concrete and patch. Makes a neat repair. If a stud breaks or is sheared off for some reason just drive the stub into the ground and repeat the original method of mounting. I have done this for years in warehouses where forklifts get driven into pallet racks shearing the fasteners.
agmantoo is right here, bad application for PAFs. (powder actuated fasteners) I would use drop-in threaded anchors. They are a threaded steel sleeve that is slighly larger than the bolt being used. You drill a hole to a specific depth, then drop the sleeve in the hole and set with a hammer and a very simple hand tool provided by the anchor manufacturer. The tool drives a hardened wedge into the sleeve and provides tremendous pull out resistance. On occassion I have to mount portable "tuggers" or winches on concrete floors to pull wire into large conduit. I use this procedure and then patch the holes with hydrolic cement. The finished product is a few circular discolorations on the floor, hardly noticable.
BTW, there is a way to make a "hillbilly" anchor if you need to attach a plate to a concrete floor. We use it for concrete forming. Hold the plate in position then drill through the plate and into the floor with a 3/16 masonary bit. Now take a 12" long piece of tie wire that you use to tie rebar with. Fold it in half, and pinch the end tight with a pliers. Now stick the doubled wire in the hole and drive a 16d. common nail aside of it, in the same hole. It works like a powder fastener, but it's WAY cheaper (and safer). If it needs to be removable, use a 16d. duplex nail.
Renting the hammer deal would cost some.
Tapcons would achor a bit better, & offer the same features you want from the nails - or better. Can be turned out & just patch the hole left, no metal bits left in the floor.
Ramset guns suck. I have 2 and use them for stud walls. and only the at the base to keep them from walking. Ive found that 1/2 the nails you shoot just shatter the concrete or dont go in. Still faster than drilling holes, but a 1/2 ass lazy way to get anything done.
Seems to have worked quite nicely. A whole lot easier than drilling multiple holes into/through the concrete.
Wait until you make the move and see if you still have the same opinion!
Agman and Tioga:
Thanks for the comments. I steer away from concrete nails; glad to know that my opinion is valid.
Tioga; especial thanks for the tip on the emergency anchor. Always a bit of tie wire and a few scaffold nails around.
I install xray equipment and am always attaching equipment to concrete floors and walls, If there is a possibility of having to move or adjust it I will use tapcons, you can use a regular drill but a hammer drill makes very quick work of drilling. I have also used a type of anchor that look similiar to a rivet but are about 1/4 to 1/2 in diameter. You drill a hole in the cocrete, push the barrel end of the anchor the the piece you are anchoring and into the concrete, you are then left with the very end of the anchor and a nail sticking out, you pound the nail down into the anchor and it spreads out the anchor and secures it into the drilled hole.--Paul