To Mate or Not to Mate???

Discussion in 'Rabbits' started by HillBilly Heart, Dec 28, 2003.

  1. HillBilly Heart

    HillBilly Heart Member

    Messages:
    6
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2003
    Location:
    Ohio
    I have a one year old buck and a five year old doe...I have been trying to mate them....I put her in his cage and the fight...today there was fur and some blood..does anyone have any advice??thanks
    Christy
     
  2. MaineFarmMom

    MaineFarmMom Columnist, Feature Writer

    Messages:
    4,568
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Location:
    Maine
    Is it bright in the area they're in? If not, turn on a light and give them 14 hours of day light. Length of time is more important than very bright.

    Is she over weight? If so, give her some exercise, cut back her feed and see if that helps. Fat on the ovaries make conception difficult if not impossible.

    Has she been bred before? Five is old to get started. If they aren't side by side in their cages moving them closer might help.

    There's a start.
     

  3. HillBilly Heart

    HillBilly Heart Member

    Messages:
    6
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2003
    Location:
    Ohio
    the pen has a place that is closed in so its not real light there...but the cage is open ..their cages are side by side..has been for two months...the doe is five months old and I was told and read that is the best time to breed...no she hasn't been breed before...and no she's not really overweigth...she acts like she wants to fight instead of love..lol....how long should I keep her in his pen???? I was afraid one of them was gonna get hurt so it was only about ten minutes that I kept them together...
    This has really got me worried...thanks for the info and the help...
    God bless
     
  4. MaineFarmMom

    MaineFarmMom Columnist, Feature Writer

    Messages:
    4,568
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Location:
    Maine
    Ahhhhhhh Big difference between five months and five years. I'd brighten it up for her and give her a little more time to mature, especially if she's a large breed. Keep trying. Eventually she'll decide he's not so bad after all.
     
  5. RoyalOaksRanch

    RoyalOaksRanch Royal Oaks Taxidermy

    Messages:
    843
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2003
    Location:
    California

    5 months is too young, Normally you wait til they are 6 months. Mainly because they are growing they need to concentrate on growing a good body and bone , not growing babies... she may not even be cycling yet. You can check by flipping her over and gently push down on the vent so that you can see the inside color, is it white, pink, red?? White means definete no, Depending on how you breed , when its red or pink introduce her to the buck... Some swear pink is when you breed others swear by red...Who knows, long as the bunny gets preggers I dont care LOL.. She will let you know real quick if shes ready or not....Place the DOE in his cage. never place him in hers.... She will cycle approx every 30 days ....
    10 mins is too long, your gonna wear out your poor buck LOL Once they hop around and he tries and shes starts having a hissy and attacks him pull her out of there..she can neuter your buck quick!. When she is ready she will grumble and jump around a bit but then she will probably stick her nose in a corner or lay flattened , when he jumps on she will tilt her tail up and walaaa.... I breed in the morning just before feeding, Both my does took on the single pink breeding, Both had babies... I just rebred one (because she had her babies on the wire,) again on the pink. The other is nursing 3 that survived her introduction into mamahood. Poor thing kept trying to clean the nest box and would take all the babies warm bedding out.....so we went from 6 to 3 :( Oh well shes getting better, I add new bedding each day, check the youguns and she seems content now.
    What kind do you have? Mine are Californians...
     
  6. HillBilly Heart

    HillBilly Heart Member

    Messages:
    6
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2003
    Location:
    Ohio
    Great Info!! thanks....I guess I will try next month then....and I need to check her,,,which I didn't know about....hope something happens soon....

     
  7. Robin Pundzak

    Robin Pundzak Active Member

    Messages:
    44
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2002
    Location:
    Western Pennsylvania
    Not enough light could be a problem, but I would definitely look at the age of the doe. I'm confused about the ages. In your first post you said that she was 5 years old and the buck was 1 year. Your second post stated that she is 5 months. Five years is too old, and if she hasn't had a litter before, or in a long time, you probably won't get her to mate. Most commercial breeders begin breeding junior does at 4 months old. If she is 5 months old, I would continue trying to breed her weekly (I breed every Saturday) for a month and if she still won't mate, cull her and get a new doe. I leave my does with the bucks until the buck falls off 3 times, and I have good conception rates. The good does get bred 3 times in about 10 minutes, but some take a lot longer. I wouldn't worry about wearing out your buck, but you want to have good breeding stock and does or bucks that are not good breeders should not be keepers. I have also left the does in overnight, but wouldn't recommend it for such an aggressive doe. (Are you sure it's a doe? Sounds like it could be two bucks. I did that once. I checked the "doe" a month before and it sure looked like a doe, but a month later, at mating, it turned out to be a buck!)
     
  8. RoyalOaksRanch

    RoyalOaksRanch Royal Oaks Taxidermy

    Messages:
    843
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2003
    Location:
    California

    There are 3 "commercial meat breeders" near me, NONE will breed at 4 months. Maybe 5 if the doe shows heat early , And you should leave the doe in not much longer than it takes for them to breed, You dont want to risk injuries.. And if she isnt ready no since in letting the buck chase her tail it just wears him out, makes her mad, and nothing is accomplished....
    If you check her vent there is no need to try to breed her weekly.. by watching her color you can determine at what stage her heat cycle is. Rabbits are induced ovulators... Meaning eggs are released after being bred... So bred her once... then after 6 hours bred her again if you feel she is hard to get preggers. .Just because she isnt ready to breed now at her age is no reason to cull her... I raise the meat rabbits, and I wouldnt "cull" a doe simply because she didnt great the buck with a big smile at that age.... Its approx 6 months for a buck to get his "family jewels". and does mature at about the same rate... Many a show doe has come of age and been discovered to actually be a buck. Even Experts and show judges have a hard time telling until the bunny has matured.Give your bunny time to mature and grow up... Watch her for signs of heat, and when its time THEN breed....
    You never said what kind you are raising? Around here its mainly Californians and one growers has New Zealands.. I like the color on the Californians LOL
     
  9. Robin Pundzak

    Robin Pundzak Active Member

    Messages:
    44
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2002
    Location:
    Western Pennsylvania
    I'm sorry if my post was taken the wrong way. I didn't mean to offend, just to offer my opinion and what works for me. I raise Californians and New Zealand Whites. I have my herd divided into 10 breeding groups, and breed weekly, so that I fryers to market weekly. My breedback is at 39 days so that the fryers are with the does until market and then the does have 1 1/2 weeks to rest before kindling their next litter. The Goforths begin breeding junior does at 4 months, as does Mark Grobner in California, Tracy Murphy (our moderator), and many others. Many breeders want to get the first litter (which is sometimes messed up by a new doe) out of the way early so that reliable production can begin at 5 months. Most of my does are ready to mate at 4 months, and kindle good litters. In my own experience with my herd, does that are still unwilling at 5 months usually end up getting culled later because they are chronically difficult breeders. Does that are easy at 4-5 months are reliable breeders in the long run, and the ones that I keep replacement stock from.
     
  10. Tracy

    Tracy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    845
    Joined:
    May 2, 2002
    Location:
    PA
    Well said Robin :)

    Remember folks, this is a message board for raising rabbits for COMMERCIAL production. All post are welcome but this is geared for meat rabbits. Most commercial growers need to look at production, just like any other livestock, Commercial breeders will get the initial breeding done as early as possible as first time does do not always make the best mothers. The second litter is usually much better. Remember it cost MORE money to keep a bad producer then a good one.

    p.s. Stay warm Robin, highe tomorrow 15 degrees :no:
     
  11. Tracy

    Tracy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    845
    Joined:
    May 2, 2002
    Location:
    PA
    Forgot to add,

    RoyalOaksRanch you mentioned show rabbits, show rabbits are not commercial rabbits and just because a judge places a rabbit does not mean it is good breeding stoock for commercial production.

    Also a rabbit is an induced ovulator which means they drop eggs after they have been bred. Using the color of the vulva as an indicator is accurate to an extent but not always. A doe that has a white vulve is not receptive but pink to red is or will be soon.

    You can switch the doe and buck into each others cages and somtimes that will help get the doe in the mood or even though it is unorthodox I keep the doe in with the buck for a few days. Yes, the buck tries like crazy for a bit and if the doe is not receptive then they will grunt and back themselves into a corner but within a couple hours they are all loving and sharing food out of the feeder and waterer.

    I have a 95% sucess rate on first time does concieving and about 80% are successful at raising their kits the first time around. The ones that dont are immediatley bred back and 98% of them will raise the second litter no problems. I agreee with Robin, the ones that dont breed or do not care for their liters the second time around are culled as they usually will never be the best producers.
     
  12. dlwelch

    dlwelch Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    831
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2002
    Location:
    Central Texas
    I'm also one of those commercial breeders with NZ and Cal does.
    I breed the NZW's at 17 to 18 weeks if they weigh a minimum of
    7 1/2 pounds. I prefer them to weigh 8 pounds which most of
    them will.

    I have recently started with Californians again from show stock.
    I'm having to wait to breed them at 5 months but hope to improve on
    that with proper selection.

    I start the bucks at 5 to 5 1/2 months.