Those pesky Chinese tractors...

Discussion in 'Shop Talk' started by oz in SC, Mar 15, 2005.

  1. oz in SC

    oz in SC Well-Known Member

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    Okay those pesky Chinese tractors keep popping up when looking and they DO seem to be getting better and better.

    The manufacurers seem to be interested in making the customers happy which makes a difference.

    The major problem seems to be lack of dealer support but unless I buy a tractor that is sold in my immediate area isn't it the same thing?

    Also while I REALLY wish to buy American,we cannot pay the price of new US made tractors and used does nothing to help the economy really.

    And aren't most of the smaller models from the 'Big Three' built overseas or of mainly overseas parts???
     
  2. oz in SC

    oz in SC Well-Known Member

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    Thats what I mean,it isn't REALLY helping America to buy a tractor from an 'American' company when the product isn't MADE here.

    I do NOT like to buy foreign made but in all honesty is it really possible to buy American when most everything is made overseas.

    I can buy a new 4wd 35HP tractor with a 2 year warranty for under $10,000...
     

  3. DrippingSprings

    DrippingSprings In Remembrance

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    I have a large Mahindra/Yanmar dealer near me. So there are alot of folks aorund here with those. I already have three tractors of varying size all older or I would buy one myself. I know some who have the grey market tractors and they dont have any problems so far either. I do like the Mahindra better than the Yanmar in the larger sizes but for a compact tractor I see nothing to stop one from buying one. I went to a local ''American"" tractor dealer for parts and he was on a rant about all those jap pieces of @#$%. Of course he wouldnt admit that all his compacts are made by Yanmar and only have American labels etc. Peopl have complained about them a little but only because they are biased. I mean really ,look at all the folks buying old 8n 9n etc and they have to work on them all the time or rebuild to begin with and they are complaining about minor issues with a jap model. I once watched a man argue at a local dealership. The salesman was pushing a Honda riding mower made in Tenn and the old man was raisng ten kinds of hell and he wouldnt touch that foreign junk. He bought a John Deere lawn tractor with a twin cylinder Kawasaki motor and was perfectly happy with his "American made purchase"
     
  4. rambler

    rambler Well-Known Member Supporter

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    In my opinion, China tractors are still junk. Give them another 10-15 years......

    There is much confusion here as I can see. Yanmar is affiliated with JD, and supplies engines for the JD compacts. Not 'all compacts'.

    Most compact tractors with USA logos (including Kubota) are assembled in the USA, have a Japaneese engine & drivetrain at least. Just as with cars, they are considered USA made, but many sub-assemblies are from overseas. These components are made to the USA specs, and may or may not cross-reference to the Jap company's own line of equipment. Often the USA branded stuff is built to a bit sturidier specs - better bearings, diff hyd pump, little things like that to make them sturdier. Kubota is self-evident; JD is with Yanmar, New Holland/Case is with Shapiria or something like that (I own one, I'm embarassed can't get brain cell to work!), MF Agco is with Fiat which has several sources; all pretty good just a choice of dealer/ features you like.

    If you are looking for cheaper than a USA branded import, I would look to machines coming from Korea or India. They are cheaper, but generally built to last.

    China junk is still junk, and carries that stigma when you try to resell it or trade it - worthless.

    I would sooner buy used or a Japaneese Grey Market tractor than something from China.

    There is a rash of import tractors with different names coming onto the market, one needs to look closely to see if it is from China or India or Korea or Japan. The Homier dude tried to tell me his hunk of junk was a Kubota-made, just from China, Kubota has moved into China. uh huh. Sure........ Check closely, don't trust someone telling you.......

    Someday China will get up to snuff. They are partnering with USA companies as we speak, and quality will ramp up. Over time.

    Just, not today yet.

    IMHO

    --->Paul
     
  5. TheBlueOne

    TheBlueOne Well-Known Member

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  6. oz in SC

    oz in SC Well-Known Member

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    I believe that Ford and Isuzu are partners with one of the Chinese Tractor companies(there are quite a few making tractors)

    It is interesting that China makes more diesels engines than the rest of the world combined.
     
  7. rambler

    rambler Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Ford makes cars. You are correct for _cars_. Ford sold the tractor division to New Holland in the '90s, which is now combined with Case & has Europe ownership.

    The former Ford & now New Holland compact tractors have a Japaneese engine & history from Shibaura, Japan. They are assembled in Dublin, Georgia. The tractor division, then & now, has never been paired with Isuzu.

    No doubt in the future all USA manufaturers will start contracting with China & such contracts are being formed as we type,, but as of todat, New Holland tractors in the compact size have parts from Japan, not China.

    China actually does make pretty good diesel engines by now. It is the hydraulics (leaky & out of spec & fit), the fit & finish (castings are crude & poor iron, paint will flake & rust through, tinwork, control placement), and the levers & detents & such (oddly routed hoses instead of steel lines, easy to break levers, catches that don't, floppy pedals, ...) that are aweful. The engine in those China tractors would be pretty good.

    They are getting there. Just not quite yet. Not that I'm trying to tell you what to buy - your money, and a lot of them are sold. Just be sure to see one in person, drive it, shift it, etc. Compare to something else from a name brand, sit on & operate it. You will see quite a difference. Don't order from a catalog sight unseen...

    --->Paul
     
  8. oz in SC

    oz in SC Well-Known Member

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    Well we won't be buying for a year or two so no worries there.

    What Is good to see(pity it is the Chinese doing it) the manufacturers responding to the problem quickly.

    I think there is something like 5,000 Jinmas sold in the USA every year,eventually it will be something the Big Three will have to deal with.

    What has NOT helped the reputation of the Chinese tractors is that ANYONE can be a dealer and assemble and sell the tractors..leads to some serious problems.
     
  9. mistletoad

    mistletoad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm holding out for a Lamborghini :)
     
  10. oz in SC

    oz in SC Well-Known Member

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    Funny thing is quality control of exotic Italian cars was terrible-Lamborghini was sued under the 'Lemon' law...

    At least Chinese tractors don't cost $250,000+...LOL
     
  11. tooltime

    tooltime Border Ruffian

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    I guess this is a discussion about where compact utility tractors are assembled, but everything that Paul has said is on the money. The Chinese tractors really suffer from low-quality castings and the hydraulics are even worse. I've worked on a couple of these tractors and there wasn't anything pleasant about it, from tear down to ordering parts to rebuild that was smooth.

    I'd look to buy a tractor based on what I needed it to do, what my level of skill was in terms of servicing the tractor, and parts availability/dealer support. If I buy a tractor used from a dealer or individual, so what. Much more likely that guy lives in my area, and I doubt if he's going to set fire to the cash or check, so the money will stay in the area and help the local economy.

    Ordering parts and even figuring out parts numbers for some of the grey market stuff is damn near impossible. Dealer availability and support makes a difference. I can get to any of 5 JD dealers within a 30 minute drive. I bought a 1070 JD MFWD with a 440 JD loader and finish mower from a local school district for $3800. It had 400 hours, but had been run with a punctured radiator. I got the engine rebuilt for around $5700. So, I had $9500 sunk in a 35 HP diesel (Yanmar engine) that is just as handy as can be. I've seen them sell for $20,000+.

    I started tinkering with tractors when I was 14, and rebuilt a 2N and a Super H. These old tractors are very easy to work on (not much tin work, most everything directly accessible) and parts are readily available. They aren't a perfect substitute for a modern compact utility tractor, but you can sure get by with one. That's part of the fun of old iron, you can do it yourself. Unfortunately, my wife has told me that I can't bring home any more tractors, so I am limited to the 14 I've got now.
     
  12. mistletoad

    mistletoad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I wasn't talking about their cars! lol
    I have never heard a complaint about a Lamborghini tractor and they start at under $20,000. I cannot find a dealer though and don't really need one with only 6 acres.
     
  13. Ross

    Ross Moderator Staff Member Supporter

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    Lamborgini tractors have a decent rep, and reasonable price tags just poor dealer support. I'm sure China will make terrific stuff someday, and they'll even have reasonable dealer support. Like Paul says give em 10-15 years. Until then I'll stick with NH or Case both owned by Fiat, or Deere, and I know they all outsource parts and assembly but they all have good dealer and parts support here. Tractors you can't fix or resell are too expensive no matter how cheap they started. My Belarus tractors were Ok too, but hard to extract my money from them when i sold them. I did OK profiting on one and recovering 50% of the value from the other. I made money on every "N American" brand I ever sold.
     
  14. EricG

    EricG Well-Known Member

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    If it's old enough that the paint is well faded it's old enough to still be american made.


    Eric
     
  15. Runners

    Runners A real Quack!

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    We shopped for a compact tractor most of last year, reading everything we could find, comparing HP, hydraulic capacity, PTO HP, lift capacity, etc. - because a whole heck of a lot has changed since I worked with everything from a Super C to a Massey 2225 (turbo 200+ HP, articulating, all duals 4wd, sound proof AC cab, 4 cameras, air ride seat... called it the red grasshopper, 'cause cracking the throttle could make it jump off the ground). :D

    My previous experience with a Kubota 18hp front mount diesel mower was hard to beat. Easy to maintain, a little pricey 12 years ago, but it was really good on fuel and had power I'd never seen before.

    We bought a new Kubota B7800 (30 hp, 4wd 3 spd - hydrostatic drive), with a bucket, 7.5' back hoe (10 & 16" buckets), tiller, 72" belly mower & post hole digger for about $23k. I wasn't really sold on a hydrostatic drive, but, given all the steep hills, and wife and kids as the primary operators - I decided to take a chance.

    It is worth every nickel we spent, and I think I got sized just about right for a little 27 acre 'duck farm'. After an initial play time with it, I put a 6' offset flail mower on it, and old Ford unit from the hwy dept., for the real HP test. We went through the fuel, but also all the cutters... tearing through the woods, up and down the hills - I took that thing everywhere, and this little 30HP tractor took on stuff I would have left to a 65HP.

    With the Hoe I'm laying drainage, power and water around the fields, pulling up trees and clearing paths . With the bucket & Hoe I'm digging a network of small ponds with connecting pipes. :D

    Last weekend, I put the tiller on, left the depth gauges for 4" and went about preparing some garden spots. Never bogged down, so I pulled the depth gauges completly off, and went after bigger stuff.... The open fields. Yup! I took a 48" tiller into the unplowed fields - just for fun. About an hour later, I had my first acre completely tilled 8" deep, ready to go - just one pass.

    Once a skeptic about hydrostatic drives, I'm now a convert (hated White's over/direct/under drives, they overheated when disking all the time, had a really good seat though!). The 3 speed tranny with the hydro on the front is fantastic IMHO. I got all the pulling power in lower gearing, plus the 4wd. The one thing missing is a cruise control for constant speed :waa: (like what you'd get with a normal gear/clutch & throttle set)

    As far as fuel, we've got 45hrs on it... and just under 30 gallons burned so far. ;)

    ----------

    I looked/tried the other brands, New Holland, MF/Agco, Deere, some french unit (forget the name), Korean unit (also forgot) and I just couldn't do the same HP, features & attachments for the $$$. :eek: I also bought in late October, and found out it's a slow time of the year for dealers - and they don't want to carry the interest on units through the winter. That translated into a bidding war between 3 Kubota dealers, and $2600 in savings.

    The real kicker was ... I like to buy American, set out to do just that, until I started reading all the Japan, Korean, Chinese, French labels all over the tractors. :eek: Kubota has a big part of the American market, parts are easy to come by, price was right - we bought. ;)