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If we all know that the lies are lies, are they still lies?

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I do know of DOJ investigations into election fraud. Just because you could not be bothered to look for them does not mean they don't exist.


"In the morning, Barr asks U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Georgia Byung J. Pak to make Giuliani’s allegations about suitcases of ballots at State Farm Arena a “top priority.” Barr has an upcoming meeting with the White House and thinks the videotape might come up (Pak testimony, p. 13, 37). In his Senate testimony, Pak states, “this is during the election time where there’s an election cycle, and in particular in Georgia at the time, there was a U.S. Senate runoff election scheduled for January 5th.” Pak testified that he was “very sensitive to the fact that we can’t do anything overt that may be viewed one way or the other by the voters” ahead of the Georgia runoff election (Pak testimony, p. 15). In his testimony, Pak adds, once again, “we were very sensitive to that.”

" December 6 or 7, 2020: Pak completes personally reviewing the State Farm Arena video and the Georgia Secretary of State’s investigational interviews, and determines that the allegations are not credible (Pak testimony, p. 21-22)."

  • Evening of December 6, 2020: Barr directs Deputy Attorney General to launch FBI investigations in Georgia
According to internal email correspondence, Barr tells Donoghue that the FBI should conduct interviews about the State Farm Arena allegations so that they “are not relying entirely on the work/assessments of non-federal law enforcement authorities” (in the words of Donoghue).

  • December 7, 2020: According to internal email correspondence, PIN concludes that the State Farm Arena allegations are not in the scope of Barr’s Nov. 9 memorandum and that PIN does not concur in any overt investigative activity before certification of the Georgia elections. In his non-concurrence, PIN Chief Corey Amundson recognizes that Barr has “ultimate decision-making authority on this issue.”
  • December 7, 2020: Donoghue tells FBI Deputy Director David Bowdich that, despite PIN’s non-concurrence, Barr “specifically directed that the FBI conduct some interviews” regarding the State Farm Arena allegations.
Note-2: In his Senate testimony, Donoghue initially defended the Department’s actions during the election period saying: “the appearance was always a concern, and it was something that we took into consideration. But, for instance, with regard to this, right, we didn’t do anything overtly. It’s not as if we issued grand jury subpoenas or began interviewing witnesses or anything like that” (Donoghue testimony, p. 22). However, Donoghue later admitted that following Barr’s order to interview witnesses for the State Farm Arena allegations, “ultimately, the witnesses who were there were interviewed. I can’t remember if FBI did the 15 interviews alone or they did them in conjunction with State authorities” (Donoghue testimony, p. 71; see also “We had interviews done of all the witnesses,” p. 72).
You point to one, that at best might be called perfunctory.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Yet your "Big Lie" story is propaganda with no basis in reality, just Trump's lies. Barr's memo and one was enough to prove that.
How would we know if there was fraud if there were no real investigations?

That is the point I am trying to make.
 
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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
:) Yet you have not proven that there were no real investigations. Go fo it. Provide some proof.
I turned to AI to help you.

Proving a negative can be difficult because it involves showing that something does not exist or is not true. One way to try to prove a negative is to search for evidence that contradicts the claim. If no such evidence can be found, it can be argued that it is unlikely that the claim is true. Additionally, one can also use logical reasoning to show that the claim is self-contradictory or otherwise impossible. However, it is important to note that it is impossible to prove a negative with 100% certainty.
 

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I turned to AI to help you.

Proving a negative can be difficult because it involves showing that something does not exist or is not true. One way to try to prove a negative is to search for evidence that contradicts the claim. If no such evidence can be found, it can be argued that it is unlikely that the claim is true. Additionally, one can also use logical reasoning to show that the claim is self-contradictory or otherwise impossible. However, it is important to note that it is impossible to prove a negative with 100% certainty.
I already provided proof that there was at the very least one investigation. Barr himself stated that they looked into other claims of election fraud. You have no proof that there were no investigations. In other words you yourself won't admit that there were investigations even though you have been provided proof. You could try to prove those investigations did not happen. I doubt you will.

Just more BIG lies from the right, even when those lies have been proven false.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
I already provided proof that there was at the very least one investigation. Barr himself stated that they looked into other claims of election fraud. You have no proof that there were no investigations. In other words you yourself won't admit that there were investigations even though you have been provided proof. You could try to prove those investigations did not happen. I doubt you will.

Just more BIG lies from the right, even when those lies have been proven false.
I am not saying what you mentioned did not happen. I am saying they were perfunctory at best.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Yet, you can not provide proof of that either. Your big lie is proven false.
It comes down to the fact you trust the Department of Justice, et al, and the media. Many, like me, do not trust them.
 
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It comes down to the fact you trust the Department of Justice, et al, and the media. Many, like me, do not trust them.
Your trust is immaterial. You are spreading lies just like Trump does. You were provided proof that your OP was wrong from the get-go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Your trust is immaterial. You are spreading lies just like Trump does. You were provided proof that your OP was wrong from the get-go.
I am not satisfied the DOJ investigation were thorough, or timely.

I think the DOJ did everything it could to perpetuate, and project a false sense of security related to our election process.

I think many jurisdiction have perfected election manipulation and Covid gave them opportunities to enhance them

My trust is not immaterial when it is share by a very large number of others in our country.
 

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I am not satisfied the DOJ investigation were thorough, or timely.

I think the DOJ did everything it could to perpetuate, and project a false sense of security related to our election process.

I think many jurisdiction have perfected election manipulation and Covid gave them opportunities to enhance them

My trust is not immaterial when it is share by a very large number of others in our country.
The original post is proven wrong. Your lack of trust does not change that.
 

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I am not trying to misrepresent anything.

I am simply asking you, or anyone else, if you can point me to where the DOJ did investigate election fraud.
Yea but correct me if I'm wrong here, you're doing that because you're claiming that Bill Barr lied. Tell me what your problem is with a US Attorney doing a preliminary inquiry and then deciding that there wasn't enough evidence to push forward with an investigation, because it doesn't really mean much to me.

I don't think the difference between an inquiry and an investigation is what some people think it is. In both cases they ask questions and look at raw evidence. The difference is, an investigation has more bureaucratic weight to it and they can issue subpoenas, etc. What it doesn't mean is that, during the inquiry, people weren't required to answer their questions or produce their evidence.

And in the end... Where is the evidence? Trump's loony lawyer couldn't produce it and you haven't either. Every state republican party had access to the ballots. They didn't find enough to suggest fraud affected the outcome.
 
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Not that I don't think the Democrats cheated, by the way, @HDRider, I think they used the media and the abc soup to lie their way into power.

So that brings me to the next question for you, @painterswife... I see Democrats in forums across the internet go quiet in threads where the news comes in that your side was lying about Covid, about vaccines, about Russian assets, about Russiagate, about classified documents, about "fiery but mostly peaceful", about race relations, about Ukrainegate, about Ukraine.....

The least you could do, given how small this forum is, would be to acknowledge that the Democrats are shady campaigners, election deniers, and criminals. And then sure, I'll talk about Donald Trump with you. Until then, would mind leaving this one to us?
 
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Not that I don't think the Democrats cheated, by the way, @HDRider, I think they used the media and the abc soup to lie their way into power.

So that brings me to the next question for you, @painterswife... I see Democrats in forums across the internet go quiet in threads where the news comes in that your side was lying about Covid, about vaccines, about Russian assets, about Russiagate, about classified documents, about "fiery but mostly peaceful", about race relations, about Ukrainegate, about Ukraine.....

The least you could do, given how small this forum is, would be to acknowledge that the Democrats are shady campaigners, election deniers, and criminals. And then sure, I'll talk about Donald Trump with you. Until then, would mind leaving this one to us?
There is corruption on both sides. Yes, there are democrats that do things wrong as well. Never denied that. Plenty of Republicans here go quiet or keep repeating the lies Trump and his cronies spout.
 

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There is corruption on both sides. Yes, there are democrats that do things wrong as well. Never denied that. Plenty of Republicans here go quiet or keep repeating the lies Trump and his cronies spout.
Their behavior doesn't excuse yours. Politicians in this country need to learn that lesson soon if they want this country to be around much longer... Funny how you seem so desperate to make Republicans sweep up their mess, but your side won't do it. It's just more partisan garbage. Admit it.
 

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@painterswife Oh and... If it was dangerous for Bush and Cheney to weaponize the CIA in order to spread the WMD lies, then you need to be consistent in that logic and admit it is dangerous how the Democrats have weaponized the abc soup and the media. If Bush and Cheney are war criminals, what does that make Clinton and the Democrats? If Donald Trump was colluding with Russia, what does that mean for Fusion GPS and the Clinton Campaign?

Show me your nonpartisan support for the gallows (so to speak) and I'll show you mine. Oh wait, I've been showing mine the whole time. You're up.
 

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@painterswife Oh and... If it was dangerous for Bush and Cheney to weaponize the CIA in order to spread the WMD lies, then you need to be consistent in that logic. If Bush and Cheney are war criminals, what does that make Clinton and the Democrats? If Donald Trump was colluding with Russia, what does that mean for Fusion GPS and the Clinton Campaign?

Show me your nonpartisan support for the gallows and I'll show you mine. Oh wait, I've been showing mine the whole time. You're up.
Did I ever say that Bush and Cheney were war criminals? I think you are assuming facts not in evidence to grasp at making a point.

Tell me, do you believe that Trump illegally kept documents after he was sent a subpoena to return them? We already know that both Trump and Biden had documents that they should not have in their possession after leaving office.

Do you believe that the fake electors should be charged for signing fake documents and having them files with the government?
 
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