[Willowynd]

OK...this is the ***** that when she was a puppy went lame all of a sudden and after a couple days of not improving- took to vet. Found a swollen tick in her ear at the vets. Started on antibiotics, cleared up lameness. Last winter, she went off her feet badly and again put her on antibiotics, she recovered for the most part, but she also had gotten into a fight with her kennel mate and I think she has permanent damage in her back from that. She still had a bit of stiffness in movement and this ***** was one of my best movers and had healthy hips on xray at 3 yrs old. Now, I noticed she was going lame again day before yesterday. Thought the cold may be bothering her. The day warmed up yesterday and she was not moving much better and she was tending to spread her rear legs out when moving, so brought her back up for house time and examined her closely. No signs of squabbles but her hind legs are definately swollen from the hock down. She does not have a fever. This ***** is also coming into season and I was planning on breeding her for her second and final litter. Ideas? Suggestions? My vet is still out from his back surgery.

 

[GoldenMom]

Hmmmm. Not exactly sure what's going on there. Was she ever tested for Lyme Disease or just treated empirically? I think that's where I'd start.

 

[Willowynd]

Sarah this is the ***** I asked you about last year. She was never tested for Lyme's...the vet I had available at the time said "he doubted Lyme's" and gave her antibiotics. What is the antibiotic for Lyme's? I could treat her for it and see what happens. What would the dosage be for a 55 lb ***** and for how long? Also, if it is Lyme's is this something that could be passed to pups? I would not even consider a natural breeding with her being like this of course, but if this is just something temporary, I could do a fresh AI.

 

[GoldenMom]

Sarah this is the ***** I asked you about last year. She was never tested for Lyme's...the vet I had available at the time said "he doubted Lyme's" and gave her antibiotics. What is the antibiotic for Lyme's? I could treat her for it and see what happens. What would the dosage be for a 55 lb ***** and for how long? Also, if it is Lyme's is this something that could be passed to pups? I would not even consider a natural breeding with her being like this of course, but if this is just something temporary, I could do a fresh AI.

Well it's not supposed to be transmitted to the pups. Not sure how well she'd tolerate pregnancy?

 

[Willowynd]

Are your concerns because of possible Lyme's or the previous injury as to how well she would tolerate pregnancy? If Lyme's, she should be markedly improved in a few days of start of antibiotics...I know her first bout she was.
I do hope she improves shortly. I was really hoping to get a nice normal eyed pup out of her and this is the last season I will consider breeding her as she will be 7 on her next cycle, so it is breed this season or spay.

 

[GoldenMom]

Mostly just that fact that she's obviously ill. I think I'd be more worried about the possible Lyme than the old injury (unless she has a huge litter!).

 

[Willowynd]

I wouldn't expect a huge litter out of a 6 yr old *****, but her last litter 2 yrs ago was 11 pups. I would be shocked if it was more than 8 at this age and would be surprised to have that many. She is not flagging yet, so I will wait and see how she is in the next few day before I decide. No, I would not breed a ***** that was really ill at the time she was ready, but if the symptoms are gone by then, I don't see why (as long as Lyme's does not cross into pups) she could not be bred then. The amoxi will not hurt the pregnancy. I actually should have put her on amoxi the start of her season to prevent pyo. From what I am understanding is that once the antibiotics kick in, the symptoms are gone and if kept on it for the 30 days she will not have a reoccurance. I wish I had kept her on it for 30 days the first time when she was a pup. I didn't know about the protocol, wish my vet at the time had informed me- especially after I called him a few days later to tell him she was all better.

 

[GoldenMom]

I wouldn't go so far as to say she will never have a recurrence is you do the 30 days, simply because if it is lyme, she's had it for 6 years. Lyme is really good at finding places to hide and coming back to bite you in the rear if a dog has a chronic infection.

Do you do Amoxi to prevent pyo on all your bitches or just older ones?

 

[Willowynd]

I have found that the bitches I had get pyo had either - 1. were over 3 yrs old and never pregnant or 2. Had not been pregnant for 3 yrs. Now my bitches only cycle every 10 months on the avg, so maybe that has something to do with my expereince with my line. Maybe if they had seasons closer together (like every 6 months) they would shed more lining. Not sure, just know that this is the case with my line.
Therefore, I use amoxi in these cases or if the ***** had pyo'd in the past. Venus pyo'd the year before her litter 2 yrs ago so I have given her amoxi or tetracycline during her seasons since then. Even though she recovered from it very quick...from flowing discharge to no discharge in under 24 hours (fastest recovery my vet ever saw) and we kept her on the full course of antibiotics anyways...not something I want to repeat. The tetracycline tends to increase litter size, so I try not to use that in bitches I know already whelp large litters. The times I did use it I got litters of 11 each time. One was a ***** that came from a dam that only ever produced 4 pups at a time. Maybe the same would have happened with amoxi, but my vet said that tetracyline is used by pig raisers to increase litter size. Therefore, I only use the tetracycline if the ***** has missed when bred the prior season.

 

[Honorine]

It shouldn't be Lymes considering your area, but I would still treat or test for it. Longtime show breeder told me Lymes often causes reabsorption of the litter, I've seen that with my one girl, each time she took and reabsorbed even after testing clear/being treated for Lymes, she had it for too long and the damage was done. Her sister was treated at 8 months when she collapsed with Lymes and has had two good sized healthy litters. One other thought, a girl I placed a year and a half ago has developed hip arthritis, with no signs of hip dysplasia on the x-rays at all, just the arthritis. She hops and limps on and off in the rear, some days is fine others not. Perhaps a hip x-ray will show you the problem. I use Doxycycline on my shelties, give them 100 mg twice a day for 30 days. I don't like using cyclines in pregnant animals, I know in humans it causes discoloring and pitting of the babies tooth enamel, was told it worked the same way in dogs, so I'm overly cautious. I also won't give it to young developing puppies for the same reason. I would take the chance considering her age, if it is Lymes she may reabsorb, its hard to say. I've not found any info on dogs passing Lymes to their puppies in utero but it is documented in humans. I've gotten into the habit of treating everyone for Lymes as a preventative because it is so bad in my area, and I time it well in before a heat, as I want them to be hopefully Lymes clear when I do breed them, as reabsorbed litters are so disapointing. Good luck, I hope you can figure out whats going on with her.

 

[Willowynd]

Update...she has had 3 doses of the amoxi and the swelling is now noticeably reduced. She is now bringing her rear legs in closer to being where they should be and moving better and freer. I have not given anything else (asprin, anti-inflamatories, heat or cold therapy) nor restricted her.
She has had a litter previously, though she did absorb one litter a couple yrs before that one (positive relaxin). The next season she got a mild case of pyo, the next season, she had antibiotics from start of season for 2 weeks, was bred and she conceived and carried her litter to term. No, I am not in a high risk Lyme's area, there was a total of 19 cases reported in humans from 1990-2003 in the counties I border and frenquent with the dogs. This ***** has also traveled to Canada, NY, OH and several other states in between while being shown. But with the vast improvement after a short period of time on antibiotics, I know of nothing other than Lyme's that would respond that quickly.

 

[GoldenMom]

Yep not sure what else it would be. Maybe next time she gets a heartworm test your vet could use a 3DX or 4DX test if he has them.

 

[Willowynd]

I will. Doesn't hurt to have a test give the definitive answer.

 

[Willowynd]

Update...swelling is completely gone and she is running and playing like a pup again. Will keep her on the antibiotics for the 30 days. Hoping my order will be here soon, only have enough left for 2 more days.