starter issues

Discussion in 'Shop Talk' started by pcdreams, Jan 12, 2007.

  1. pcdreams

    pcdreams Well-Known Member

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    96 chevy s-10 4.3

    Started having starter problems with the s-10 last night.. (replaced it about 4-5 months ago.

    It sounded like it was spinning but not engaging the gear.. every once in a while it would sound like it was locking up with the flywheel.

    Anyway I pulled it and had it checked. passed with flying colors. so I brought it back home and put it back in. Same problem

    One thing I did notice.. We had a crate engine dropped in it right after replacing the starter and they didn't put the plate (that fits between the hogshead and the motor) back on.. Don't know that this would have anything to do with it but....

    Anyway I noticed when I'm putting it back in that (after its tightened up) it doesn't look as if its sitting in their straight.. Looks like the back end is to high (at least the front end is not parallel to where the plate would be).. Never had shims in it before.. it feels kinda spongy when I'm tightening the bolts.

    any ideas?
     
  2. Cabin Fever

    Cabin Fever Life NRA Member since 1976 Supporter

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    SO, did this problem start immediately after the new engine was put in or did the starter work for a while with the new engine in place?
     

  3. pcdreams

    pcdreams Well-Known Member

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    Nope just started.. Was working fine up until last night
     
  4. Beeman

    Beeman Well-Known Member

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    I have no clue what plate you are referring to that was left off. Did you rotate the flywheel and see if it has all of it's teeth? Did you check starter tooth engagement position to the flywheel to see if shims are needed? Instructions with starter should have shown how this is checked. There is a good chance you still might have starter problems or solenoid problems. The solenoid when energized pulls the fork which moves the starter gear and also puts power to the starter motor to make it spin.
     
  5. Hammer4

    Hammer4 Well-Known Member

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    I'd pull the starter off, check the teeth on the flywheel ( and hope they are still intact ) and then look at the teeth on the starter pinion for marks to show where its contacting the flywheel.

    I'm not sure what you mean by hogshead, but if the mounting attachment isn't rock solid I would certainly figure out why right away before a misaligned starter chews up the flywheel teeth. If a plate is missing that is needed to get the right starter to flywheel engagement that could certainly cause the misalignment and spongy mounting....
     
  6. Cabin Fever

    Cabin Fever Life NRA Member since 1976 Supporter

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    I think the "hogs head" that PC is referring to is the torque converter and I'd imagine the cover that is missing is the tin cover that exposes the fly wheel when it is removed.

    If the starter and fly wheel weren't meshing, you'd certainly hear it! I'm wondering if the starter throw gear is not working. Perhaps the starter is just spinning and the gear is not moving forward when it spins.
     
  7. pcdreams

    pcdreams Well-Known Member

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    exactly the part cabin.. This was my thought also which is why I pulled it and had it tested... It spun up and threw the gear out there like its suppose to.. which is why I'm thinking something must be wrong with the alignment..
     
  8. moopups

    moopups In Remembrance

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    The 'throw gear' that is being mentioned is correctly called a 'bendix'. If you missing the (basketball sized or larger) plate of sheet metal that goes between the engine and the transmission, of course the starter will misalign and cause problems.

    I bought an old Ford many years ago for $50.00 because the owner was baffled as to why the starter so often failed. It lasted many years after such a plate was installed.
     
  9. pcdreams

    pcdreams Well-Known Member

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    any idea what this plate is called?

    also will I need to physically seperate the engine from transmission to put it in? I'm guessing the mechanic that did the engine swap either left the plate on the old engine or forgot to put it back in, because I know it was there before
     
  10. tinknal

    tinknal Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm wondering if this plate may have only been under a portion of the starter. If it was only under the portion of the starter closest to the engine removing it would align the gear further away from the fly wheel. Try using a washer between the starter and the housing on the holes close to the engine.
     
  11. pcdreams

    pcdreams Well-Known Member

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    its not a shim per se.. And at any rate the bolts go up into the block not into the bell housing on this model :(

    Thanks for the idea though.

    I know what the piece looks like but I can't imagine what its called or where I'd find one.. It covers the end of the transmission (ie without it you can watch the fly wheel turning real good.
     
  12. Beeman

    Beeman Well-Known Member

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    Do your starter bolts have enough thread? I know this sounds foolish but I have seen this. GM had some starter heads that required shorter bolts as the bolt didn't have enough thread on it to tighten the starter to the block. With the starter off insert a bolt and see how it looks. Also did you chase the threads in the block? i have seen bad threads in a block not allowing the starter to pull up tight.
    Just some thoughts and non costly things to check.
     
  13. pcdreams

    pcdreams Well-Known Member

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    whats strange to me (forgot to mention this, sorry).. When I put the bolts in they are finger tight till about the last 2-3 turns then they snug up fast.

    I did run the bolts up into the block while the starter was out to be sure they hadn't been cross threaded or any such..

    I'm going to have to go out and pull it again before I can tell much else and I'm guessing I'm going to have to get that plate (hopefully the mechanic still has it but I doubt it).. anyway won't be able to do that for a little while.. Got ice and now snow.. LOL I love the weather.. just wish I had a garage to work in. LOL
     
  14. agmantoo

    agmantoo agmantoo Supporter

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    You may have just answered your own question when you said the bolts go in freely then snug immediately. The bolts, with the shield missing, are too long IMO. You are not getting the starter snugly mounted and the starter is moving around. Either get some shorter bolts or put a couple of washers on each bolt.

    PS........ I did not read Beeman's post until after I posted....he is right as per usual.
     
  15. pcdreams

    pcdreams Well-Known Member

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    thanks I'll try the washers first.. Dang.. Wish I could get out there today.. I'd like to get er goin cause it sucks less gas than the c-20.. LOL
     
  16. Gideon

    Gideon Well-Known Member

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    The "plate" you mentioned is probably just the dust cover over the lower 1/3 of the flywheel and has nothing to do with the mechanical workings of the starter. I know very little about Chevy starters other than they sometimes require shims and the bolts are special made with tapered ends and cross hatches on the shanks to easily ID them as starter bolts. Does it make a whinning/screeching sound when starting or "skip" when turning the motor?? As #5 would say--more imput. wc
     
  17. pcdreams

    pcdreams Well-Known Member

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    it makes a whiring sound.. if you continue to crank on it, it will start to make a grinding sound (like its locked with the flywheel)


    the bolts though as you say have the taper and crosshatching.
     
  18. Beeman

    Beeman Well-Known Member

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    All of the starter bolts have the cross hatching and the taper/shoulder. I put a different starter on my race car and that's when I encountered the different bolt problem. I had never seen or realized it before as I hadn't interchanged one and had the wrong bolts. You would see it right away if you had the starter off and slid a bolt in the head, the threads wouldn't be long enough.

    I can't remember what the flywheel underpan looks like on that truck, I take it you've got a 2 wd. Is the pan tin or was it cast aluminium? It shouldn't change the starter alignment from what I can remember.
     
  19. pcdreams

    pcdreams Well-Known Member

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    yep its 2wd.. To be honest I don't know what it was made from. from the look I'd guess aluminium but don't remember for certain.
     
  20. pcdreams

    pcdreams Well-Known Member

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    well I finally got good weather and a few minutes to pull it off.

    Looks like the bolts were bent!!

    I went and picked up some to day.. Not sure if they're going to work (they're a bit longer than the old ones.. Have to wait to see.

    One bit of bad news though Is I put the new bolt into the block and they're loose. (ie.. apperently whatever caused the bolts to bend made them wobble also). They are the right size bolts. the hole has been reemed from the wobble.

    I don't know if I'm going to have to re-thread the block and get bigger bolts or if they still make some stuff (re-core?) that you put on the bolt and it expands (Sorta like an wall ancor I assume).