Homesteading Forum banner
1 - 20 of 50 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,019 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just realized that fact this week. No, he's not a boy anymore, so nothing excuses him.
He will be 40 in January. This is is second marriage, his first ended when he got tired of finding strange people in his bed--not always men. He insists he's happy now, despite having 2 problem stepchildren. His wife? Well, when she met me, she said if she could handle my finances, she would do better than me. I also have a e-mail from her, telling his Dad and I not to be asking him for help on our farm, because his hands were full with his new family. Any way possible, she tries to keep things stirred up--see, it isnt always MIL's. I have my hands full on the farm, and a ailing hubby with Alz.-And no, I seldom as for help, few weeks ago, I asked HER if he would mind stopping by on his way home, and help me unload a stove from the pickup. Would have taken 5 min.--everything blew up over this.
So, she sent home my borrowed couch, etc-and while he was here, he started talking-and thats what this storys about--not family problems!
He is terribly bitter over the election, over the economy, over his job, He just rants and raves over everything! The schools, everything--right down to the roads-I worry that he sounds a bit unbalanced, hating everything as he does. His wife is insisting they move away, and he knows she is always right in her decisions, even when the school had her banned.
You know, I know there is no way anyone can give advice in this situation- I just worry about our son.
My daughter pointed out the other day, that the two that act this way are our oldest--and our youngest-That perhaps they had bigger expectations in life because their position in family had them spoiled. Could be right.
 

·
Happy Scrounger
Joined
·
13,634 Posts
No advice here....just...sometimes, no matter what you do, the kids end up screwed up or unhappy or somehow unfulfilled. The wife sounds more than a bit unbalanced. Just not a lot you can do about it all other than try not to let him burn any bridges with you.

Very hard to have that kind of discussion with him any time of year. I wish there was something .... some sage advice to give.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,094 Posts
after getting tons of great advice, i wish i could give some to you on this point. that is a sad situation. it must be so hard as his mom to hear him, but maybe he is suffering depression? and that gal sounds like she likes to rule the roost, and as i've now found out, if he doesn't want it different, it won't be. best to you, family troubles can be so very hard.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,569 Posts
My husband has a similar outlook...there is nothing he won't complain about once he gets started....including a crowing rooster....he's the middle child....and feels cheated.

Not sure that the economy and jobs are any different anywhere and the negative elements are in every community. There are people that are bad magnets...

Working hard and not getting ahead stinks.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,019 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
LOL, Mostie--Did she make list's for everything? His list starts before he goes to work, Get kid's up, and on bus, load dishwasher, start laundry, and straighten house--before leaving for work at 6:15 AM. But I guess the main thing is--He's got her--He's the winner.
Thanks everyone, Guess there isnt anything I can do--just pray for him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,202 Posts
Hi ceresone;
I'm sorry your son is a bitter man. I know where you're coming from. I can only pray for my son and dil and pray that i can hang on to my sanity until I die or they move out. The amazing thing about grown up children; they blame the world, parents, genetics or anything possible for their failures or lack of achievements. My dh and I are actually talking about relocating. We'd rather leave the land that his family has lived on for generations than to hear how cruel fate has been to people who are too lazy to get up off their keysters and do something for themselves. My ds and dil are bitter about their failures and take their anger out on us (my dh and me)because we have accomplished more than they , we're both college graduates and we have our own home.
They lost theirs because they spent their money on toys and whatever and my dil gave the mortgage money to HER mother for three months thinking we would give them more money to keep them from losing their home. We did. I took out a home equity loan and gave them a check. Once again they spent the $ on toys and my dil gave 1/2 the money to her mother to pay down her bills. I didn't learn the truth about this until they showed up and said they were being evicted. I am still paying the loan.
Then they moved in with me. I couldn't have my grandchildren living in the street.
They have no respect for me or my home. All my quilts that they needed to "keep the younguns warm" are on the floor of their pigsty room under plates of old food and cups and glasses of spilled beverages. My towels are mildewed on the floor of their room and I am now missing three good sets of flatware, three sets of dinnerware, and glasses. They wouldn't wash a dish unless of course I pay them and they take their legally prescribed narcotic pain meds, go to dr.s, socialize with friends and stay out til 4:00-5:00am. I have to go out soon and find their car, ( the one i'm paying for) which they ran all the gas out of and left 30+ miles away by the side of the road last night.
I have a heart condition, episodes of tachycadia so severe I have to defibrillated at the er. Sometimes the work around here takes two strong people and my dh is getting on inyears.
If I ask my son to help out around here he says he will but doesn't. She starts her trash talk.
She calls my son a momma's boy if he so much as lifts a finger to help me out. If i hug him or tell him I love him she says I secretly want to have sex with my own son and yet she can hug and kiss her parents, cousins and grandparents and friends. My dil complains about how she should have her own home and if I were turly a loving grandmother, mother and Christian like I claim, I'd move out and let them have this place or go in debt and build them a bigger better home because after all my house is crap.


Somehow it's all my fault. Yup me and fate... we done 'em wrong.

tamilee

P.S. Sorry for the rant. I just want you to know you're not alone.
 

·
CF, Classroom & Books Mod
Joined
·
9,934 Posts
I have a sister and a brother, both, who spend a lot of time complaining about life. I used to try to listen, figuring they just needed someone to talk to. In the past fifteen or so years, I've figured it out: some people just like to complain.

They have a mental block which makes them feel it's okay, somehow elevates them above the crowd, if they have a negative opinion on something. It makes them feel powerful to be able to bring people down, to make others feel as negative as they do. My solution is that I've stopped listening.

When they start, you have to say, "I'm sorry you feel that way, but I have no more room in my life for negativity. I find it hard to not help, to give advice, and I know that you don't want that, so could we talk about something else?"

I've had to say that a lot. I've ticked them off (seriously) by saying it, and honestly, there have been times when "they're not talking to me" -- and the rest of the family gets to listen to what I said being added to their list of grievances.

It's been said on here before, but it's true and worth repeating -- we teach others how to treat us. Depression is a terrible thing, and one doesn't have to be suicidal to be depressed. Depressed people like to make others depressed, because it allows them to shift the cause of their negative feelings onto OUTSIDE influences, rather than putting the onus on themselves to get help, which for most people who are suffering from this, is near impossible in any case.
 

·
Columnist, Feature Writer
Joined
·
4,568 Posts
I've had friends who felt like they were owed for a variety of reasons. We're no longer friends. My life is too short to let them spoil any of it for me. We should be responsible for ourselves, our happiness, our lives in general, LONG before we're approaching 40. I think you must have to work quite hard at being so miserable you feel the need to spread the misery. Why not put that effort into being a positive, happy, respectable person? I hope it works out for everyone. It's discouraging to hope for the best for those we love when they're looking for the worst.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
97 Posts
Hi ceresone;
I'm sorry your son is a bitter man. I know where you're coming from. I can only pray for my son and dil and pray that i can hang on to my sanity until I die or they move out. The amazing thing about grown up children; they blame the world, parents, genetics or anything possible for their failures or lack of achievements. My dh and I are actually talking about relocating. We'd rather leave the land that his family has lived on for generations than to hear how cruel fate has been to people who are too lazy to get up off their keysters and do something for themselves. My ds and dil are bitter about their failures and take their anger out on us (my dh and me)because we have accomplished more than they , we're both college graduates and we have our own home.
They lost theirs because they spent their money on toys and whatever and my dil gave the mortgage money to HER mother for three months thinking we would give them more money to keep them from losing their home. We did. I took out a home equity loan and gave them a check. Once again they spent the $ on toys and my dil gave 1/2 the money to her mother to pay down her bills. I didn't learn the truth about this until they showed up and said they were being evicted. I am still paying the loan.
Then they moved in with me. I couldn't have my grandchildren living in the street.
They have no respect for me or my home. All my quilts that they needed to "keep the younguns warm" are on the floor of their pigsty room under plates of old food and cups and glasses of spilled beverages. My towels are mildewed on the floor of their room and I am now missing three good sets of flatware, three sets of dinnerware, and glasses. They wouldn't wash a dish unless of course I pay them and they take their legally prescribed narcotic pain meds, go to dr.s, socialize with friends and stay out til 4:00-5:00am. I have to go out soon and find their car, ( the one i'm paying for) which they ran all the gas out of and left 30+ miles away by the side of the road last night.
I have a heart condition, episodes of tachycadia so severe I have to defibrillated at the er. Sometimes the work around here takes two strong people and my dh is getting on inyears.
If I ask my son to help out around here he says he will but doesn't. She starts her trash talk.
She calls my son a momma's boy if he so much as lifts a finger to help me out. If i hug him or tell him I love him she says I secretly want to have sex with my own son and yet she can hug and kiss her parents, cousins and grandparents and friends. My dil complains about how she should have her own home and if I were turly a loving grandmother, mother and Christian like I claim, I'd move out and let them have this place or go in debt and build them a bigger better home because after all my house is crap.


Somehow it's all my fault. Yup me and fate... we done 'em wrong.

tamilee

P.S. Sorry for the rant. I just want you to know you're not alone.
Its called tough love. Or basically call a meeting and express mail your foot to the crack of their butts.

By allowing this behavior to continue you are just as much to blame as they are.

Sometimes even grown children need tough love.

Id tell them they were to adhere to certain standards or rules or the grandkids could stay but they could go to the local shelter. Or even better yet the MIL they keep giving your money to.

The lack of having intestinal fortitude with your child in his formative years has led to this and now you are continuing to enable him to be a brat. Albeit a grow one.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,019 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Tamille. Bless You! I'm paying off loans still that I took out to keep him from losing his truck--plus loans for his first wife-and their place. I do believe you have it worse than me--I would never let them live with me. Even if she does want to control our SS checks!
I'll pray for you--and you me, O.K? I think we do need to draw back, and practice tough love. Mine rent the farm adjoining ours, Place I asked the neighbor to rent them-not knowing they would never pay a full rent.
I have a daughter and SIL live across the road, he's a God-Send, never asks what I need-it just shows up. This is also a major gripe to our son, afraid we'll die--and SIL will get what he assumes is his.
Thanks, everyone--You know, it does help to let off steam once in awhile, instead of bottling it all up inside. Thanks again
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
453 Posts
I think a lot of negativity is caused by depression. Clinical depression is one thing and the person should be seen professionally. But sometimes we need to consider if our own actions are contributing to our depression, and that's when tough-love comes in. We have three grown married children, and they all have their share of problems, just like everyone does. We try to help them, but there comes a time when they need to take control of their problems themselves.. it's a fine line, but when you cross it and their problems become a burden to you, then you know you've gone too far.

Think of the depression of the parents who are putting aside their own well-being for the sake of their children. I don't think that even as Christians we are called to do that. If we continue to help them, they will never learn how to grow up. Whats going to happen when we're gone? I think the Christian thing to do is lovingly set limits and firmly stick to them.

I was a bad complainer when my kids were young. My poor mother listened to all my sob stories about what the kids did, and what the neighbor did, and on and on. And now after she's gone and my own kids are grown I realize what I put her through! GAH, she must have been tired of listening to me. I really regret that now.. She passed away several years ago so I can't go back and tell her that I was wrong to complain so much. Yes, I still tend to complain. I need to WORK on that!

Anyway, if you have it available to you, and you can afford it, I would really recommend talking to a therapist or someone you trust for some insight as to why you are going to such extremes for your kids. The kids SHOULD be helping the parents if they are living in your home. They should be kissing your feet every day for having a roof over their heads and being taken care of. Your burden should be lighter, not heavier.

We have been in a similar situation (loaning money etc), but it has come to a stop, and we are learning to put ourselves first, both in money and in time.

It seems our kids were raised in such a 'child-focused' society. Everything for 'the kids'. They've learned this entitlement thinking along the way. That's not how it was in the old days.. most kids were expected to help the family, and earn whatever they had with their own money.

If things get worse with the economy (and they probably will), lots of people are going to be making some hard decisions about helping their kids, or helping their parents, combining households, etc.. a good time to think about how we would handle this, is now..
 

·
Animal Addict
Joined
·
12,209 Posts
Sounds like he is so unhappy. I bet the rants about everything in the world are covering up the real reason he is unhappy, the one he might not want to admit, even to himself, regarding his family situation.

All you can do is listen and be as supportive as you can. The girl needs to realize that she married your son, and she inherited all of you by default, farm and all. It's a shame she is not more involved and helpful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
453 Posts
Tamille. Bless You! I'm paying off loans still that I took out to keep him from losing his truck--plus loans for his first wife-and their place. I do believe you have it worse than me--I would never let them live with me. Even if she does want to control our SS checks!
I'll pray for you--and you me, O.K? I think we do need to draw back, and practice tough love. Mine rent the farm adjoining ours, Place I asked the neighbor to rent them-not knowing they would never pay a full rent.
I have a daughter and SIL live across the road, he's a God-Send, never asks what I need-it just shows up. This is also a major gripe to our son, afraid we'll die--and SIL will get what he assumes is his.
Thanks, everyone--You know, it does help to let off steam once in awhile, instead of bottling it all up inside. Thanks again


Ceresone, we have a DIL similar to yours. She is better at everything (in her mind), and yet we know that she knows very little. Funny how the MIL ALWAYS gets the bad rap. ha!

It does help to let off steam, it surely does.. these are very heavy burdens that are being carried.
 

·
CF, Classroom & Books Mod
Joined
·
9,934 Posts
Okay, I wasn't going to say this, as I'll probably hear how terrible I am for it, but I'll share with you all what I intend to do with my boys, and take it for what it's worth -- untried and untested, and probably unrealistic, but what seems most sensible to me.

With an eye to the economy, to the trends in the way families live, and being realistic about our own needs as our children develop their own adult lives and as their father and I age, we've come up with this plan. We own an acreage, and want our children to settle nearby, of course. We have told both of our boys (who are currently 15 and 13) that they will ALWAYS have a home with us, but that this will BE our home, and anyone living here, as an adult, contributes to the running of it, in either effort or financial support. A place to live with family doesn't mean a free ride, but it does mean a HOME, not just a roof over their heads where they're made to feel beholden. In order for them, as adults, to feel that that this IS their home, it's IMPORTANT that they feel that they are contributing to the household, and for their father and I to not feel that we're being taken advantage of. When the time comes, they WILL contribute, or they will contribute to their OWN home, but they will support themselves and theirs -- WE will not be doing that for them.

So, the key becomes figuring out WHEN one is considered an "adult" member of the household. In my parent's home, when you turned 18 or graduated high school, you started paying board. Period. As such, it became something that we, the kids, kind of resented. Not that we didn't feel the need to support ourselves, but it limited our choices a LOT. I had to hold off on university for a while, because I couldn't afford to support myself AND pay tuition -- which in hindsight wasn't necessarily a bad thing, but honestly, it could have been handled better. Knowing that I wouldn't be able to afford both made me make some stupid decisions in school, which I probably wouldn't have made had I had ONE adult saying to me, "don't worry about a roof over your head, worry about getting good grades and getting into a good university, we'll figure everything else out."

What we have decided to do with our boys is this: THEY decide when they are an adult. The catch is, *WE* get to treat them as what they choose. If they choose to continue living as a child, then there are assigned chores of MY choosing, bedtimes, enforced schedules, no drinking or smoking, no family-independent entertainment (no partying), no vehicle ownership, and a curfew (11 pm). The MOMENT they break those rules, there will be an assumption that the child has CHOSEN to become an adult, with all the responsibilities that go along with that. If they CHOOSE to enjoy the privileges of adulthood (setting their own schedule, drinking, buying a car, etc.,), then the "down side" of that will be either moving out to support themselves full time, or contributing to the good of the household either monetarily (room and board) or by assuming some adult responsibilities such as paying bills, doing housework and all of the other little things that go into the smooth running of a home.

And they know what those things are, because they've been taught what they are.

My sister says I'm harsh with my boys. I tell her that they are more secure because they KNOW what the expectations are, they know that they will ALWAYS have a secure, loving home to go to -- but that they are responsible for at least a portion of the happiness present there. Satisfaction of a job well done, of effort paying off and contributing to the good of your family FAAAARRR outweigh the passing "joy" of a lack of responsibility. Children who are taught to value their own efforts do well as adults, or at least that has been my experience.

It sounds to me like some "adult children" have chosen to be children again -- as such, I'd be treating them as children. If they wish to be treated as adults, perhaps they need to be given the parameters of what acting like an adult entails.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,545 Posts
I have a daughter and SIL live across the road, he's a God-Send, never asks what I need-it just shows up. This is also a major gripe to our son, afraid we'll die--and SIL will get what he assumes is his.
Well, there's a real quick fix for that. Leave it all to them for helping without gripping and let your son know it now.

Why the heck anyone thinks they are owed someone else's things that they spent their whole life working for, is beyond me. No one should have any tolerance for greedy vultures!

Ok, here's the thing, I know it's hard when it's your kids. There is always something in us that still wants to "parent" even if we're in the nursing home and our kids are 70 yrs. old. But there comes a point when you just have to take a step back and accept that they are adults. You are not responsible for them or to them. Life is what they choose to make it.

You can't try to fix your adult children's bad choices; nor can you assume responsibility for what your kids think you did wrong when they were kids. That's a cop out and them wanting to place the responsibility on your shoulders. Don't let them pull that nonsense. Every parent screws up somewhere along the line. But every parent does the best they can under the circumstances. If it wasn't good enough, well....they are adults and can make life any thing they wish. I don't care if you were the worst parent in the world, if they mess it up as adults, it isn't your fault nor your responsibility. They know respect and right and wrong.

I can understand loosing a child to an outside influence. When you're kids were young, you had to step in and squash that ASAP. But when they are adults and have friends or a spouse that leads them in a direction you don't approve of, or even breaks your heart, they have to walk that path and take responsibility for the consequences of that walk.

In other words, tough love isn't even in the equation. It's simply called growing up and being an adult and stop blaming everyone else for the things you don't like in you life. If an adult doesn't like their life, there's always a whole list of ways to change it; and the parents aren't on that list!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
453 Posts
Tracy, those are good guidelines. When the time comes, there will most likely be some 'tweaking' of the parameters, but having a structure like this is good. That time between 'childhood' and 'adulthood' is one of the most trying times we've experienced with our own kids. It was not easy enforcing the rules, there were many confrontations. But now they are responsible adults and see the value of rules. They see how things have turned out with many of their peers, and they appreciate that we chose a different route.

I think we all feel better about ourselves when we know we are are earning our own way and not being a burden to others. Deep down, if we have any kind of conscience at all, we know right from wrong... And taking steps to independence and self-determination is a wonderful feeling. At some point, it's no longer a parent/adult child relationship, but we can enjoy each other as equals..
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,456 Posts
Tracy it worked for you and it worked for me. My mom did this for all of us. Had my dad been around enough to know about it he would have flown off the handle as it would have been seen as a slap in his face that he could not support the children. He did not approve of any of us working for pay. He made great money and was a business sucess because he knew how to control people --by enableing them to the point of dependancy. Mom is not and enabler and like you tracy we knew what to expect. What we did not know when the eldest went thur the rent paying was that mom put every cent includeing late fees in a separte account to give us as a "nestegg to start out" Her gift to us was learning to accept and cherish responcablity and knowledge that we could control and improve our lot in life with effort and goals. Help that creates dependance is harmfull. The fear and knowledge that the reality of hungry and homelessness has in the past been a true motivator yet so many of the safety nets are provided by others that people are for going creating private safety nets.

I would kick the adult childern to the curb and work to gain custudy of the the gk. The order to complete this would be gk's safe then removal of Adult childern. Yes, hell would start in your family but what would the GGK's be like?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,202 Posts
Tamille. Bless You! I'm paying off loans still that I took out to keep him from losing his truck--plus loans for his first wife-and their place. I do believe you have it worse than me--I would never let them live with me. Even if she does want to control our SS checks!
I'll pray for you--and you me, O.K? I think we do need to draw back, and practice tough love. Mine rent the farm adjoining ours, Place I asked the neighbor to rent them-not knowing they would never pay a full rent.
I have a daughter and SIL live across the road, he's a God-Send, never asks what I need-it just shows up. This is also a major gripe to our son, afraid we'll die--and SIL will get what he assumes is his.
Thanks, everyone--You know, it does help to let off steam once in awhile, instead of bottling it all up inside. Thanks again
Hi Creosone;
I'll be praying for your son. Can you pm me with his first name only ?
tamilee
 
1 - 20 of 50 Posts
Top