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For what it is worth, I am going to pass on something that hurts quite a few folks with no one intending to do so.

I am an animal lover--and I know the grief and pain the death of a beloved pet brings, be it a natural death or a pet murder such as one of our friends on the forums is suffering.

But I have also lost a child. You have (I hope and pray!) no idea how it hurts when someone refers to their dog or their goats or their cats or whatever as "their children." (And I know the pain of infertility. Pets can be such solace then, but never our children.)

There is no comparing the pain of losing a human child and losing a pet.

Please don't!

Children are devalued enough in this world--let's not equate them with cats and dogs.
 

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I cannot fathom the depth of the loss of a child. I know no-one intends any harm by calling their furry ones "children" in a lighhearted way, but that won't make it hurt any less. I am guilty of this, and will try to watch how I word my posts. Stay strong, and peace for you and yours.
 

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Although I have never had the pain of losing a child, I understand what you are saying. I never thought of the whole "pet/children" thing. I love my animals dearly, and will cry so hard when they pass on. The _thought_ of something happening to one of my children is enough for me to want to hurt someone BAD.
I do think that when people refer to their pets as family, they are not trying to cause pain to anyone else. I also refer to our animals as family, but inside my heart there is a line.
I am so sorry that references to the pets being children hurts you, you are so strong to survive, I hope that I would be able to.
I also am aware you were not posting this to bring that to attention :)
Myself, I have learned from your post something I have never really worried about.
 

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OK, I understand your situation Nodak3, but this is something you also need to understand.
Some of us have NO family, mother, father, grandparents, brother, sister, husband, children or close friends. Such am I. I have no one but my family of animals, if not for them I wouldn’t go on.

Yes, pets are not children, but if that’s all I have.
I would fight anyone tooth and nail to save them.
Sorry if this term “animal family” bothers you. But that is your short coming, not mine.

When others talk of their human family, I don’t get all upset and depressed, I know other live different than myself, and that’s just fine.

Relax.

Kris
 

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Sorry if this term “animal family” bothers you. But that is your short coming, not mine.


Kris


rather harsh to tell someone who lost a child?

Losing a pet is painful. losing our family dog was one of the few times i have ever seen my own father cry.but losing a child is inconceivable. there really isnt a comparison. you expect your pet to pass on..as a parent we never expect to outlive our children.

i have never personally experienced the loss of a child..but i have held the hand of a mother who lost her 4 year old son in a tragic accident. You have never seen grief til you have to seen a mother bury her baby.
 

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I truly didn’t mean to be harsh, just honest.
Inflicting your pain on another’s different (albeit lesser in an animals loss situation) type of pain is kinda rude also when you think about it.
I don't know the pain of the loss of a child and never will, all I have is my animals, so they are my life .....

I do most sincerely apologize.

Kris
 

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Sorry if this term “animal family” bothers you. But that is your short coming, not mine.

Relax.

Kris
Youch. :mad: We are talking to someone who has lost a child, a concept I couldn't even begin to wrap my mind around until the birth of my own. I understand where you are coming from, but...ouch.
 

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I have admitted that was harsh.
I was just thinking that what others (and I) think about our animals is also very hard to wrap your mind around if you don’t see and feel that way, just like I don’t see and feel the loss of a child because I have never been there.. It's all very hard to understand another person’s point of view without discussing and considering everyone’s emotions.

And I apologize once again.

Kris
 

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I truly didn’t mean to be harsh, just honest.
Inflicting your pain on another’s different (albeit lesser in an animals loss situation) type of pain is kinda rude also when you think about it.
If you've never lost a child you would have absolutely no idea how deep pain can be. This is even more true if you are not a parent. I thought I knew what love was. Then I had a child. I discovered what love truly is. When I lost my child I discovered pain. I am now watching my two children struggle with significant, chronic disease that will always be with them. At least one will never be independent. The jury is out on the other one.

We have well loved animals. It's not the same. The difference is larger than the size difference between a microscopic piece of dust and the sun. I hope and pray that others do not have to learn this lesson.
 

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Pain is pain. When it comes to loss, I personally don't think you can put "levels" on it. This past year I lost my brother and then 2 months later my German Shepherd. Both were tragic and both were very painful. There was a difference in the grief because of the different relationships and memories...but the pain was the same...it hurt deeply and brought me to my knees. I have no human children...mine are all critters that I have a relationship with and I think that is all that matters. I'm sorry nodak3 that you lost a child and are hurt by the perception of people comparing. I am glad though that my mom (who lost her son) is still calling herself "Grandma" to my pups and joyfully gave them Christmas presents this year.
 

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Kris--if you are truly that alone, I am sorry for your pain. However, there is no reason for you to be alone. You can choose not to be alone.

If you read my post you will see I am not in any way denying the horrifying pain of losing a beloved animal.

I AM saying that those who lose a child (to death, runaways, miscarriage, or must surrender for adoption, or to kidnapping, etc) find it painful when the life of a child is equated to the life of a pet or farm animal. I daresay if you think about, those that have lost parents, or siblings, or friends would not equate those people with animals either.

Allergies prevent my having pets now, but when I did, I would go to the mat for them.

But I would die for my children.

Any rate, I did not mean to offend you or anyone else, or seek any sympathy (our loss was in 1989 and we have come to terms with it). I take no offense at your post.

Pets are very important parts of our lives and we grieve when we lose them.

But we do need to remember they are not people.

I live in an area where human life is so undervalued--and yet pet's get their pictures with Santa. More people get upset if a stray dog is hit by a car than got upset this summer when a child was hit by a truck.

Is it ok to pamper our pooches? OF COURSE IT IS.

But let's do even better by the humans!

Peace!
 

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I understand where you are coming from Nodak, my heart aches for your loss, but I understand Kris too.

It's a big world and people throw around all kinds of comments that can be hurtful, but they don't mean it to be.

My darling husband is my world and he suffers from terrible depression and PTSD, he has attemped suicide and been hospitalized more than once.

I hear comments like, "I could kill myself" thrown around jokingly about trivial matters and it makes me cringe, I live in dread of everything becoming too much for Tyler ... and of course there are people out there who have actually lost a loved one to suicide, but people are people and I can't change the world.

Your post does serve as a good reminder to watch what we say, but realistically we just have to brush it off the best we are able.
 

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Thank you Minelson, that is what I was trying to say all along, pain is pain, you deal with it the best you can as you can.

Nodak3, I am not alone and am not in the least bit lonely. I have my animals.
Sorry for your loss and glad that you have dealt with it to you betterment.
I can’t save all the animals nor can I even attempt to correct all the wrong done to children in the world.

I will try to be more politically correct in the future, OK? And call them my animal friends.


Kris
 

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Pain is pain. When it comes to loss, I personally don't think you can put "levels" on it. This past year I lost my brother and then 2 months later my German Shepherd. Both were tragic and both were very painful. There was a difference in the grief because of the different relationships and memories...but the pain was the same...it hurt deeply and brought me to my knees. I have no human children...mine are all critters that I have a relationship with and I think that is all that matters. I'm sorry nodak3 that you lost a child and are hurt by the perception of people comparing. I am glad though that my mom (who lost her son) is still calling herself "Grandma" to my pups and joyfully gave them Christmas presents this year.
My parents have been married for 45 years.

My mother told me she has seen my father cry twice in all those years, once when his brother died, and once when his pet bird died.
 

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Ok, I'm gonna jump in here and support Kris because I understanding completely where she is coming from. No one is belittling anyone's pain or loss, but we some of us have no children - either because we are incapable of doing so, we choose not to for any number of reasons (possibility of genetic defects, for example), or maybe the opportunity never came along. I know any number of people whose only family is their pets and that is the only reason they have to go on living another day. I have a friend that all she has left is her dogs. (12 of them, all rescues). If not for her dogs, she would have committed suicide long ago. Believe it or not, for some people pets are all they have. Just because some of us love our pets, consider them our family and grieve their deaths, doesn't mean we are trying to cause pain to anyone who has lost a child, a spouse, or a parent. Perhaps people who have children don't realize the depth of the pain they inflict on the childless by some of the things they say or do. Or what of those without a spouse or parent, those who have lost a spouse or parent through death, desertion, or divorce. We certainly don't expect people to change their words or actions to avoid inflicting us pain, even intentionally. We don't expect anyone with parents, children, or spouses to stop talking about the joy they bring just to avoid unintentionally causing the rest of us pain.

This is a pet peeve of mine. I had a friend who flipped out after her mother's death. She seemed to thing because I had not experienced the death of a parent, I could not have compassion for her and had no idea of her pain. Well, guess what, I had a father who chose to abandon me when I was 13 and I have not seen him since. Tell me which pain is worse - losing a parent through death (which they have no choice over) or losing one because they don't care about you anymore. How can you measure someone's pain? Each person is unique and individual and so are their feelings. I don't belittle others' pain (no matter for what reason) and I don't expect them to belittle mine. I'll grieve with you, no matter whether it's the death of a pet, a spouse, child, or friend, or desertion of a parent, child, spouse, or friend. Don't go measure one type of pain against another. It doesn't work that way.
 

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Pain is pain. When it comes to loss, I personally don't think you can put "levels" on it. This past year I lost my brother and then 2 months later my German Shepherd. Both were tragic and both were very painful. There was a difference in the grief because of the different relationships and memories...but the pain was the same...it hurt deeply and brought me to my knees. I have no human children...mine are all critters that I have a relationship with and I think that is all that matters. I'm sorry nodak3 that you lost a child and are hurt by the perception of people comparing. I am glad though that my mom (who lost her son) is still calling herself "Grandma" to my pups and joyfully gave them Christmas presents this year.

you really can put "levels" on it. The pain of losing a sibling and your much loved german shepherd brought you to your knees. losing a child would drop you to the floor...and keep you there.
how deep does the love go for your child?

i once took care of a 98 year old woman. full dementia. didnt know time of day or even what year. when she lay dying she said "I am going now to see sonny". Sonny was her 2 year old daughter she had lost some 70 years prior in an accident.

my grandmother was fortunate. she died at age 69..and outlived all of her 11 children. i hope and pray i am able to also
 

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Kris has clearly said she didn't mean to be harsh. Why be harsh to her? Her pets are her family. Her pain over a loss might be different but it is no less important than any other person here.
 

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Oz and I have no children. We have our 2 basset hounds...........which are always referred to as 'the children'. This is not to compare them to someone's human children. It's just a term of endearment to our animals.

If something ever happened to them, or when they finally go, I will be devastated. I would in no way equate that to you losing a child, who is an actual part of you. There is of course, IMO, a difference. I love my dogs SO much. I am very protective of them. I have lost animals in my lifetime and I have grieved. That was nothing like the grief I felt when I lost my father. I don't think there is a comparison. It's love and it's grief, but it's different love and different grief. While I still miss Tonto, our dog that was shot and killed over 10 years ago, I don't think of him everyday, but not a day goes by that I don't think of my dad.

So, when you hear someone refer to their four legged friend as their 'child', maybe you can think of it as a term of endearment..........not a replacement for a human child.
 

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Can we all just agree to our own level of love and pain for those we have lost?
This discussion has a lot of good points, but is not getting anywhere, nor doing anyone much good, and it's probably pretty dull reading.......



Kris
 

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Maybe we all just look at things differently. I have lost a child and it certainly doesn't bother me when someone refers to their pet as a child.
 
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