small goats

Discussion in 'Goats' started by Bubbas Boys, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. Bubbas Boys

    Bubbas Boys Well-Known Member

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    We have been kidding for a few years now and every kid goat we have had has been undersized... We are wondering about coccidia but not sure. We do pull them and bottle feed. Question is, will leaving them on mom help, and what is best plan for using the corid for prevention??. Thanks.
     
  2. happy hermits

    happy hermits Active Member

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    We also take our kids from mothers every year. I do us Corid as a prevenative measure .I give it to the babies once a month after they are 6 to 8 weeks old. I also wash all the watering buckets and tubs with Corid once a week. By the time winter comes they are bigger and do not have such a problem. I hope this helps.
     
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  3. mzgarden

    mzgarden Well-Known Member

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    I use Toltrazuril (Baycox) to prevent coccidiosis. One dose every 21 days. None of our kids have been small in size.
     
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  4. Jcran

    Jcran Well-Known Member

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    What dose do you give?
     
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  5. mzgarden

    mzgarden Well-Known Member

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    The dosage I use for Toltrazuril (Baycox) is 1 ml per 5# every 21 days as preventive. If I actually have a fecal come back with coccid infection, I treat using the same dose 10 days apart. With bottle babies it's super easy - add it to their bottle. I have two just under 6 months - the one sucks it right out of the drench gun like it was candy, the other accepts it without a fight. DiMethox was always such a fight because it tastes nasty - 5 days in a row and after the first dose, they saw me coming.
     
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  6. boerboy

    boerboy Beginner Part-time Farmer

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    What is the meat withdrawal period? Some websites state that it is 42 days.
     
  7. mzgarden

    mzgarden Well-Known Member

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    Ahh, I don't know. I raise dairy.
     
  8. boerboy

    boerboy Beginner Part-time Farmer

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    2016: The wethers were around 80# at eight months.
    2017: The wethers were around 100# at eight months.
    The differences I am aware of are
    (1) Good Winter (very cold, with four rounds of snow and some ice)
    (2) Copper bolus at 3 months
    (3) Seleneium/VitE gel monthly
    (4) at 2 months they were put in a pasture (3 acres) that were without goats for four months.

    In case it helps the OP ...

    Coccidiosis prevention thorugh corid/sulfameth certainly works... but something I will get in to only if there is no other way :(
     
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  9. DaveyBeardy

    DaveyBeardy New Member

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    Greetings,
    I am not sure I fully understand how you have formed your question or questions. Are you asking if coccidia is a factor in kid size or is that a seperate question/issue? I will try both. Kid size is first determined by genetics then nutrition. So, if your heard genetics are good and the doe and buck are good sized then you go to the next factor. I do see that you said you pull the kids and bottle feed. That practice will produce the effects that you are seeing. It is common in growing farms/herds to do that but if you are building stock, well I do not reccomend it. The practice that I have found works well for us is to select the best breeding pair/s and breed. When the kids (or lambs) hit the ground you have to leave them on their mum for at least 6 weeks, 8 if you want the best results. I know a lot of people dont want to take their better stock out of production during the best milking times, but that is what you have to do if you have a closed herd/flock. Plan for the future properly and your success will be that much bigger.
    Now as far as coccidia, that has little to do with size aside from constant outbreak. Basically it just kills kids and lambs within a few days. If you are lucky enough to save them then there is the possibility it will cause a failure to thrive situation and the results would be a smaller animal. Learn the situations in which coccidia shows up at your farm. Is it a certain time after kidding/lambing?, is it environmental (cold wet..)?, are your holding pens/paddocks/barn clean? Only you can figure what that situational trigger is for your event. As far as Corrid, NOT a fan. Goats by nature need 2 times the dosage of any drug that any other livestock would need (per weight) so water tank profolactic application is tough, AND if you are milking then you have to take into account withdrawl times. Ponazuril is the best, it is a one dose (oral) treatment for coccidia and is a miricle worker. I would get some from your vet and keep refrigerated right at kidding so you are ready when signs show. Not sure if you do your own fecals or send them to the vet, but collect specimens and confirm before dosing. No drugs is always better so that when you need them they really work (another reason for no Corrid). Lastly, if you have the ability to creep feed your kids, Tractor Supply has a Goat and Sheep DQ feed that you can use profolactically if you cant maintain solid track (multiple viewings daily) of your heard/flock.
    Hope this helps!
    Dave- Apfel Farms and Creamery
     
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  10. Caprice Acres

    Caprice Acres AKA "mygoat" Staff Member Supporter

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    Pulling kids and bottle raising should NOT cause small kids unless you are underfeeding or have other problems at hand. That is more common if you're following the very outdated feeding recommendations on the many poor-quality milk replacers available for sheep and goats. The dairy cattle industry did the same for years and years. Though it seems like common sense information and unnecessary research, they found if they feed heifer calves enough that they grow like weeds, they stay healthier, can be bred sooner, cycle well younger, and produce more milk as mature animals compared to their slower grown and especially the 'starvation rations' of olden times (10% body weight per day) counterparts. Many group housed calves on robot feeders are mixing high component replacers and feeding half a gallon per calf several times per day and they are fed through many 'calf illnesses'. Others are finding in individual housing they can accelerate growth and health just by offering more feedings per day.

    Cold weather also increases energy needs, as does size. Sounds silly to mention it, but again is something I see all the time on farms I go to - both calves and lambs/goats. Adding in an extra feeding, providing more solids in milk, and offering solids early all can help develop a rumen, promote growth on top of staying warm in this weather. Proper mixing and maintenance, cleanliness, and colostrum management are also all exceedingly important. Preventing respiratory and scours in young stock will make huge differences. Those diseases can easily take the biggest, growthiest animals and stop them completely from growing for weeks, if they survive.

    Also, feeding well after weaning, NO MATTER how you milk feed them (dam raised or bottle), is extremely important. People seem surprised when they wean kids they need to replace the nutrition provided by milk with feed and high quality hay/forage to continue growth. No, a crappy dry, mature, mid-summer pasture is not going to get kids to grow well. A well managed, rotationally grazed or previously mowed field, with lots of young immature forage and during a season of moderate temps, adequate rain, and proper fertilization perhaps. ;) Or, provide a quality forage product and a concentrate of choice depending on your situation.

    Coccidia and parasites are all very important as well. Be careful using products in food producing animals (dairy goats included). To my knowledge, no ponazuril/toltrazuril is approved for use in the US for food producing animals and therefore is illegal for use. They are usually sources from compounding facilities and many, many of these have been PROVEN to be improperly mixing (usually shorting the product of active ingredient). No parasite prevention program is SOLELY BASED ON PRODUCT ADMINISTRATION, as many have mentioned. Cleanliness, rotational pasture management, manure management, exposure risk (dam raised vs group housed away from adults etc) and other health concerns all play a huge role. Fecals are great, but things like coccidia can be shed in cycles or diluted to minimal numbers in severe diarrhea. Early infections in kids can be hard to detect this way as well, as immature worms can be severely damaging but not shedding eggs into the feces due to immaturity.

    Good conversation and a good thread. :) Great timing too, as it's the season for new kids! Mine aren't due till mid March, but I'm beginning to see a lot of kid pictures on friends' websites and social media! :D
     
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  11. boerboy

    boerboy Beginner Part-time Farmer

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    Boils down to nutrition (quality of feed/pasture) reaching the goat (not the parasites)
     
  12. JohnLeePettimore

    JohnLeePettimore New Member

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    Maybe you should take it more seriously.

    I'm sorry. I couldn't help myself. It's a condition I have: cant-ignore-a-straight-line-itis.
     
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